Trending Games | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Star Wars: The Old Republic | World of Warcraft | EverQuest

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,901,034 Users Online:0
Games:753  Posts:6,271,334
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Thief-classes in MMOs

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
53 posts found
  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

 
OP  3/15/08 9:29:33 AM#1

Are there any MMOs around that treat thieves like they are actually thieves?

 

In my experience, every single MMO out there treats the "thief" class(es) as a lightly armored fighter who usually inflicts extra damage against an opponent when he is attacking from behind. Sometimes these so-called thieves also know how to use poison, have some skill with throwing daggers or shooting bows/crossbows, can pick pockets (for very small change). But, basically, they are not a true thief class... they are just, like I said, a variation of a fighter.

 

Even in DDO, a game that you'd THINK would make a thief what it should be, the thief is less of a thief than he is a lightly armored fighter, who sacrifices some versatility the fighter has for being able to disarm traps and sneak around. Woohoo. Sneaking is so much fun, especially when there is virtually no reason to do any sneaking!

 

 

THIS is what I think of when I hear thief, rogue, or any similar thing: a skill-oriented character, who often relies upon luck as much as anything else, who does not fight unless absolutely forced to because he pretty much sucks at it, but who doesn't need to fight, because he has the skills necessary to avoid it and to reach his true objective... whatever it is he's going to steal.

Thieves, in my mind, scale walls in the rich part of town, quietly navigate a courtyard and stick to the shadows to avoid the notice of guards, scale the side of the building to gain access to an open, second-story window, etc. They then navigate the interior of a lavish mansion, obviously in search of valubles. Maybe they find a safe behind a painting and disarm a trap on the safe before skillfully cracking the safe. Of course, they're remaining quiet the whole time so as not to wake the master of the house, asleep with his wife in bed 10 feet away. And, of course, they are clever enough to realize that those steps coming down the hallway mean they'd better cover that safe back up and hide somewhere quick before the guard sticks his head in to check on his employer's safety.

Then, when the thief does crack the safe, he doesn't grab the +5 vorpal longsword of fiery wrath and the studded leather armor of +10 str and con... he grabs the jewels, the banknotes, the deeds, the secret documents that he could later use to blackmail this rich dude... maybe he leaves a calling card for style points. And then he sneaks out as carefully as he snuck in.

If he DOES get spotted, he probably doesn't fight first... he runs, or hides, or whatever. If he does have to fight, he relies, again, on skill. He dodges, moves constantly, attacks when it is safe to do so. He doesn't stand there taking hits while trying to cut the guard's throat... he's a thief, not a berserker.

 

But you get the picture. I would pay good money to play an MMO where thieves are THIEVES, or that is focused on thieves and their variations (brigands, burglars, pickpockets, spies, even the ever-popular assassin). There's a lot of potential here.

  Vincenz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/07
Posts: 1514

3/15/08 9:39:08 AM#2

Originally posted by fischsemmel

Even in DDO, a game that you'd THINK would make a thief what it should be, the thief is less of a thief than he is a lightly armored fighter, who sacrifices some versatility the fighter has for being able to disarm traps and sneak around. Woohoo. Sneaking is so much fun, especially when there is virtually no reason to do any sneaking!


"Thief" in D&D isn't remotely what it was in the AD&D days.  BTW, if you don't think there's any point in sneaking in DDO, you're clearly not a very good rogue.  You also don't understand things like reflex saves, uncanny dodge, improved evasion, let alone UMD...which is huge.  A good rogue in DDO can solo by sneaking past huge portions of combat, can scout ahead for a party...and with UMD can do anything up to and including raising the dead for party members.  They also can use sneak attack to out damage almost any other class in the game if they know how to manage aggro.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of people have no idea how to play a rogue well in DDO.

  CleffyII

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/06
Posts: 3396

3/15/08 9:41:11 AM#3

I would pay for that too, too bad it hasn't happened yet.

  delete5230

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2592

3/15/08 9:44:27 AM#4

Are you talking about a Thief or a Rogue, Rogue's use stealth and yes backstab, and dps more if they are wise with there stealth. Rogues also have sub features such as lock pic, poisons, they can even do intel in rooms and Thief ablities such as pic pocket.

Most games there called Rogues and can do some thief abilities, WOW , D&D. They do what they say in fact WoW can pic pocket npc's and players, what else would you like them to do.

I love Rogues !!

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4841

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

3/15/08 9:59:28 AM#5

Only MMO that have the true Thief class is Shadowbane

But for the same reason thieves there are hated by everyone. It is hard gaining trust , even joining guilds.

But hell is it fun :)

 

  User Deleted
3/15/08 10:21:01 AM#6

as if sneak was overpowered enough

  Vincenz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/07
Posts: 1514

3/15/08 10:29:50 AM#7

LOL...yeah, if you have any questions about the value of stealth in DDO..when properly used, that is...

 

Watch This

  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

 
OP  3/15/08 10:47:59 AM#8

 

Originally posted by Vincenz

 

 

"Thief" in D&D isn't remotely what it was in the AD&D days.  BTW, if you don't think there's any point in sneaking in DDO, you're clearly not a very good rogue.  You also don't understand things like reflex saves, uncanny dodge, improved evasion, let alone UMD...which is huge.  A good rogue in DDO can solo by sneaking past huge portions of combat, can scout ahead for a party...and with UMD can do anything up to and including raising the dead for party members.  They also can use sneak attack to out damage almost any other class in the game if they know how to manage aggro.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of people have no idea how to play a rogue well in DDO.


It may not be what it was back in the day, but I'll go ahead and say it pretty much still is. The game has changed, but the players haven't. You can still do what I described above in D&D (with any class, really... though thief/rogue types are better at it), thoug in no MMO is such a thing possible.

 

 

I didn't say I had played DDO very much, I don't believe. And, this thread is not about DDO except for the single point that DDO rogues are not true "thieves", so please don't get all up on my case for not being a pwnzor leet DDO rogue. In my experience with the game, a rogue is far from the thief that I am imagining. Stealth in DDO is not used to be a thief, it's used to be a spelunker and a scout and perhaps to allow for sneak attacks... not quite the way a "thief" would make use of stealth.

 

I fail to see the relevance of the D&D rogue abilities you mentioned, especially use magical device. What, exactly, does that have to do with my post asking about whether there are any REAL "thief" classes in MMOs today?

  bleyzwun

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/05
Posts: 1104

3/15/08 10:51:52 AM#9
Originally posted by fischsemmel

who does not fight unless absolutely forced to because he pretty much sucks at it, but who doesn't need to fight, because he has the skills necessary to avoid it and to reach his true objective... whatever it is he's going to steal.

I dunno about that part...  I would agree that thieves avoid fighting, but I'm sure there are many thieves that know how to fight.

  Vincenz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/07
Posts: 1514

3/15/08 10:53:22 AM#10

 

Originally posted by fischsemmel
I fail to see the relevance of the D&D rogue abilities you mentioned, especially use magical device. What, exactly, does that have to do with my post asking about whether there are any REAL "thief" classes in MMOs today?

 

The point was, rogues in D&D...not just DDO...aren't what you have in mind for the most part.  Rogues are about versatility, the ability to do many things as a skill based character.  I do understand what you want a thief to be, but I don't think it's realistic outside of either an entirely thief based MMO or a SP game.

 

 

That said, if they ever based an MMO on the Thief IP, I'd play it.

 

p.s. As the post above just stated, one of your points was that a thief should be able to avoid combat to steal whatever he plans on stealing...I think if you watch the Youtube video I posted, you'll see rogues in DDO doing exactly that.

  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

 
OP  3/15/08 10:54:24 AM#11

Originally posted by paulscott

as if sneak was overpowered enough

Thousands of posts. I would have thought you'd know how to contribute to a thread by now.

 

Sneak being "overpowered" has absolutely nothing to do with a game where rogue/thief types actually do some thieving. It is ESPECIALLY irrelevant in a game where the focus is on thieves and thieving. Bringing up how allegedly overpowered stealth is, in a game that is all about thieving, would be like bringing up how "overpowered" doing DPS is in a game like WoW... completely stupid.

  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

 
OP  3/15/08 10:56:56 AM#12

Originally posted by page

Are you talking about a Thief or a Rogue, Rogue's use stealth and yes backstab, and dps more if they are wise with there stealth. Rogues also have sub features such as lock pic, poisons, they can even do intel in rooms and Thief ablities such as pic pocket.

Most games there called Rogues and can do some thief abilities, WOW , D&D. They do what they say in fact WoW can pic pocket npc's and players, what else would you like them to do.

I love Rogues !!

Thief/rogue, whatever you want to call them. I know what they are in typical MMOs, but that is not what I consider to be a real thief. My first post went into this in some detail, I felt.

 

What else would I like a thief/rogue to do? Go (re-)read my first post...

  Wickersham

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 2359

3/15/08 11:10:46 AM#13

How about this for a thief in MMORPGs:

If a player quits the game or does not have enough maintenance fees put into his/her structure, then the thief should be able to break in and steal everything including the structure itself.  This would clean up the servers of those abandoned houses and give thieves something to do everyday they log in.

The thief gets tef'd (for a few minutes) as an outlaw if spotted picking a lock and is at odds with NPC guards on a PvE server and player guards on a PvP server.  If a thief becomes too notorious then bounty hunters PvE/PvP can hunt him down.   The thief can become less notorious over time or pay a large fee to reduce their notorious level, or do a series of long drawn out thief quest (Steal 20 of X for NPC Y quests as punishment).

If caught the thief goes to jail (a jail themed dungeon) and must serve out his penalty time, break out, or have friends raid the jail and set him free.

Would you play this game?

 

 

"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

 
OP  3/15/08 11:13:18 AM#14

Ok, I watched the video and that is more like what I think of whe I hear the word thief, or rogue, than what the class typically is in most MMOs today.

 

But, given that, does DDO really cater to that style of play? Are you rewarded equally at the end of a mission if you stealth through and swipe some loot, but leave boxes unbroken and NPCs unslain? And, even if you are, is there a significant portion of the game that makes this kind of play worthwhile?

 

And bah, humbug on you for being able to sneak around 2 feet from NPCs with a shield strapped to one arm and a fiery, flowing sword wielded in your right hand. Stealthy, indeed :)  

  Tesinato

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/04
Posts: 222

A lost gamer looking for the MMO of his dreams.

3/15/08 11:13:45 AM#15

I don't think there are any games that actually play out like that.  It is sad, but it may be too complex to program into a game, or it may make it unbalanced, as a thief would have access to a ton of things no one else would have access too.  Granted, in WoW for instance, only rogues can unlock chests, which makes them special in that, but I can understand what you want.  I honestly would love to play a game like that too.

  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

 
OP  3/15/08 11:15:37 AM#16

Originally posted by Wickersham

How about this for a thief in MMORPGs:

If a player quits the game or does not have enough maintenance fees put into his/her structure, then the thief should be able to break in and steal everything including the structure itself.  This would clean up the servers of those abandoned houses and give thieves something to do everyday they log in.

The thief gets tef'd (for a few minutes) as an outlaw if spotted picking a lock and is at odds with NPC guards on a PvE server and player guards on a PvP server.  If a thief becomes too notorious then bounty hunters PvE/PvP can hunt him down.   The thief can become less notorious over time or pay a large fee to reduce their notorious level, or do a series of long drawn out thief quest (Steal 20 of X for NPC Y quests as punishment).

If caught the thief goes to jail (a jail themed dungeon) and must serve out his penalty time, break out, or have friends raid the jail and set him free.

Would you play this game?

 

 


A game flushed out with the same sort of ideas as you've outline here twould be sensational.

 

These are the kinds of things I think of when I am talking to myself, saying "Gee, I wish there was a thief-y MMO out there." and then I go off and think of all the great things that should be possible in that game.

  fischsemmel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/06
Posts: 367

 
OP  3/15/08 11:22:22 AM#17

 

Originally posted by Shadowlord10

I don't think there are any games that actually play out like that.  It is sad, but it may be too complex to program into a game, or it may make it unbalanced, as a thief would have access to a ton of things no one else would have access too.  Granted, in WoW for instance, only rogues can unlock chests, which makes them special in that, but I can understand what you want.  I honestly would love to play a game like that too.

 

I can certainly see how it would be an issue to allow a thief class this kind of power in an MMO like, say, EQ2 or WoW. But at the same time, there are plenty of creative ways to deal with that. Simply, just increase the risks involved with thieving to mitigate the net rewards of the activity, with in-game measures.

 

NPC detectives or bounty hunters come after you, players can use divination or NPCs who can use divination to find out who robbed them, there are ways to be granted permission to have your way with a thief after you obtain a bit of evidence against him, etc.

 

Of course, in a game focused on thief-types and thieving, subtrefuge, assassination, etc, it wouldn't be so much of a problem as in a typical MMO. Everyone expects it and even wants it.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19249

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

3/15/08 11:36:47 AM#18

Originally posted by fischsemmel

 

Originally posted by Shadowlord10

I don't think there are any games that actually play out like that.  It is sad, but it may be too complex to program into a game, or it may make it unbalanced, as a thief would have access to a ton of things no one else would have access too.  Granted, in WoW for instance, only rogues can unlock chests, which makes them special in that, but I can understand what you want.  I honestly would love to play a game like that too.

 

I can certainly see how it would be an issue to allow a thief class this kind of power in an MMO like, say, EQ2 or WoW. But at the same time, there are plenty of creative ways to deal with that. Simply, just increase the risks involved with thieving to mitigate the net rewards of the activity, with in-game measures.

 

NPC detectives or bounty hunters come after you, players can use divination or NPCs who can use divination to find out who robbed them, there are ways to be granted permission to have your way with a thief after you obtain a bit of evidence against him, etc.

 

Of course, in a game focused on thief-types and thieving, subtrefuge, assassination, etc, it wouldn't be so much of a problem as in a typical MMO. Everyone expects it and even wants it.

I think that's the ultimate solution, design a game around something like the old Thief IP, where everyone in the game is some sort of thief, (or perhaps you could make the opposing faction the side of law and order) and then it would all work.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  User Deleted
3/15/08 11:36:51 AM#19

I too love to play a Thief/Rogue type character.  And I gotta agree with most of the OP statements about this class in MMO's today.  Sometimes I basically feel like a glorified spongy warrior who can only make his kills from behind.  Unless there is a trap to disarm or lock that needs picking we are all but forgotten from an MMO grouping standpoint.

I wish there was more of an emphasis placed on this class in MMO's  You know, like specific quests that highlight the Thief/Rogue skills....  i.e. sneak into the Temple of the High Priest to steal that one artifact that our group needs to get into the dungeon.  Or assassinate said High Priest without alerting others.  Or sneak into the Duke's mansion and steal "x" amount of g.p.'s worth of valuables without any bloodshed in order to get that awesome "Dagger of Death".

There are a couple older fps type of games out that I highly recommend the OP get if  he hasn't already, that really makes one feel like how a Thief character should be played.  I believe the first of the series was called simply "Thief: The Dark Project" and the second was "Thief: Deadly Shadows".  I wish MMO designers would take a look at these games and try and incorporate the feel of them into their Thief/Rogue archetypes.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

  Vincenz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/07
Posts: 1514

3/15/08 11:44:50 AM#20

Originally posted by fischsemmel

But, given that, does DDO really cater to that style of play? Are you rewarded equally at the end of a mission if you stealth through and swipe some loot, but leave boxes unbroken and NPCs unslain? And, even if you are, is there a significant portion of the game that makes this kind of play worthwhile?

 


Absolutely!  In fact, if you complete the quest (still the requirement for exp in any case) you are given BONUS experience for killing no or few monsters.  You're also given bonus exp for spotting secret doors and disabling traps.  That's all in addition to the same base exp you'd get for completing it in any fashion.

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search