There were at least three times the number of posts before the game was even released in this forum and while it was in beta. I guess that was when people really cared and thought their input might make a difference. 

Most of the threads in here are not even hitting double digits.

And, I find it really, really hard to believe that "people are playing the game, not posting about the game." Every single person I know that bought the game, and there were about 20 or so at work, stopped playing at the end of their free 30 days. One of my friends let me play the last 2 weeks of his free month, after he got fed up after a couple weeks.

Is it time to write off PotBS as a failure and figure out what lessons other devs should learn?

By that logic Silk Road Online should be non-existent due to it's lack of posting in these forums.  Yet it's servers are bursting at the seams.

Were there tons of people posting about Silk Road before release and then a dramatic drop off right at a point when people's free time expired? Is the game so good that people would rather play than post?

For Silk Road, I can't say. Never played it. But Asian grinders tend to be a breed all their own.

For Pirates of the BS, I am not thinking that is the case.

Yeah - the forum both here and there is a bit quiet.

Even some of the FLS Fanbois have either given up or just plain vanished.

I don't think the game is "dead" but I do think that there will be server mergers very soon and I will be interested to see how the Aussie Server does long term?
(bare in mind the client is free and they are still to distribute free CD ROMs here - although that has gone a bit quiet?)
I would also not be surprised to see a change in the FLS Team soon - not talking about firings / layoffs or anything like that (yet) but I expect they may announce an new project and a large part of the Dev Team may be moved to that?

Lessons Learned is an interesting one (I could ramble on here for ages - in fact I have even started writing an article on this):

I still maintain that many of the current issues are due to fundimental design.
It really plays as if it was designed by someone who would be / is / was better suited to designing single player games?
It has all the elements for a fun game - but they just don't fit together particularly well.  Especially for an MMORPG.  
And the 'quick fixes' FLS are introducing are not that 'quick' and they cause flow on problems from the 'fixes'.

I really don't think key people in FLS understand the MMORPG gamer or how they think.  They don't know what is important to these people so they don't really know why these people are leaving the game and what to 'fix' to make them stay?

As an example: My idea for an immediate "quick fix"
Society Housing. - Allow societies to 'lease' a 'building' as their base.
How?  Use one of the many Doors in the game and have 3 or 4 internal designs for the society to choose from.  The game is instanced so it is dead easy to make this work.
All FLS needs is the location of the Door the Society wishes to claim and the internal design they want.
How does this help?  MMO gamers join societies for a feeling of "belonging" - the emotional attachment people will often form with these Virtual Societies is huge.  It's often enough to keep players in a game they would otherwise leave.

Note that my "quick fix" addresses NONE of the current game issues.  But it adds something to the game - and it does so with minimal additional dev work required (FLS already has several internal house designs available and they could use those)

By far the biggest hurdle FLS have to face however is the Travel Map.
That, more than anything else, is extremely limiting.
Without a complete redesign there is not a lot they can really do with it.

Anyway, that's enough of my ranting for now.  :-)

 Good gods you housing nuts are everywhere.

Originally posted by surlybird

 Good gods you housing nuts are everywhere.

I'm afraid a "meh" funny emote doesn't really cut it as a discussion winner.

Originally posted by surlybird

 Good gods you housing nuts are everywhere.

Good god you rush to the end of a game with no depth nuts are everywhere

lol, just kidding ^^

In response to Gyrus's post, (and not implying that I want any of SOE's games to succeed...) I think you're right about how much attachment to community/guilds can add to gameplay experience.  I think it's always a good idea for games to add in stuff like guild housing/etc to open up options for guilds. 

Look on the Lineage, Final Fantasy, or EVE boards for example.  Those are games that most players (i think) will agree are infinitely better if you have a good guild.  The game'll hook you for a while.  If you make friends, you'll be more inclined to stay.  Especially if you have stuff that you can do together.

I'm a huge fan of housing in mmo's period (yep, housing nut ^^, on of "them").  It gives an extra feeling of existing in the world, owning a piece of it.  A lot of people will make fun, but If I want an ordinary game, I'll play a console game.  An MMO is meant to be a living, breathing, continuous world right?  Well, in order for a game to achieve that feel it has to add more than "slay x of mobs and gain x amount of xp."

We as players have too admit that the last five years for the mmo genre has been rough. There was a time when mmo's were based on real life. Such as player housing, crafting and combat among other things. 

But in the last five years you get stunts like the NGE, Xbox360 vs PC and Wow all changing the way mmo's are played and what are put into them.

Todays, mmo's like pirates of the burning sea do not take the genre forward but takes it back by not providing a chance for players too really explore the game to the fullest. Some players are bored with grinding as an example and too off set that grinding you have player housing allowing players too take a break and decorate there home or craft and socialize. And just like players who can not pvp 24hours a day 7 days a week a fuller gaming experince allows them too do something different in the game and helps players stay involved in the game.

Pirates of the burning sea doesn't do this and either does star gate worlds or probley the star trek mmo thats coming out. But we will see more mmo's under the M rating a chance for adults too express themselves and get involved instead of playing dud mmo's like Pirates of the burning sea.

The problem is there's a huge market full of people with lots of time on their hands who are completely computer illiterate, I work for a travel company and teaching people to use expedia.com is like pulling teeth.  People just don't understand simple things a lot of us take for granted.  Companies are realizing this, and just like your classes in college... are toning things down to fit the retards, since they make up 90% of the population.

---

Originally posted by daveospice
The problem is there's a huge market full of people with lots of time on their hands who are completely computer illiterate, I work for a travel company and teaching people to use expedia.com is like pulling teeth. People just don't understand simple things a lot of us take for granted. Companies are realizing this, and just like your classes in college... are toning things down to fit the retards, since they make up 90% of the population.

---

But this is a good thing. Someone will realise it and bring something for the remaining 10%. Everyone else won't get it, and we in that bracket get to prance about being elitist bigots. If they can't understand that their monitors aren't broken (they're just not turned on) then at least it stops them from trolling these forums :)

Originally posted by Gyrus

I really don't think key people in FLS understand the MMORPG gamer or how they think.  They don't know what is important to these people so they don't really know why these people are leaving the game and what to 'fix' to make them stay?

Have you moved on from nonexisting Australia market scheme to FLS don't understand MMO or don't know about their own game?

Are you shure you want to play this game, or are you only looking for things to point out in FLS/POTBS?

I generally become really active in these forums when I DON'T have a game to play. When I get really interested in a game, I usually just log on to play the game and I ignore these forums.

Right now I'm playing a lot of EVE, so I haven't been too active in these forums (I just happen to be at work right now).

So I'm not sure the logic here would apply to me (or people like me.)

However, I would agree that POTBS isn't doing as well as anticipated. Probably because the game world is so small and everything is instanced.

- Phos

Duh!!

We told you all the reasons in BETA... I know the development team is reading.. 

-Lesson learned for the next company... listen to your testers!!!
-Don't rush into releasing your game...5years wait, so what is 1 more year?
-Why SOE? Nvm.. u didnt listen...

Recap again for the general public who was not in the beta forum war....

Economy
 -Crafting is too simple, {2 mouse clicks, viola!!!}
 -Anyone can master the ecnomy in a short period. {days, vice mths}
 -Poor Market watch
 -Loot, rewards, risk system is not cleared
 -No manual crafting
 -No other type of Market, you got PvE and PvP only
 

PvP
-Map is too small for local PvP
-why Lev 50 ships is the king?
-All ships are combat, even if u dont need to do combat
-No naval fleet stratgey, either you are in the fight or not in the fight
-Any ships can travel from anywhere less than 1 hour

Misc
-Not listening to the testers
-Avatar combat was not ready {but that is not the issue, we know it is a ship game}
-ASSUMING you know the consumers better than mmorg.com's readers
-Chat room IU is horrible... (I wrote a long serie just on chat)

Originally posted by Orphes

 

Originally posted by Gyrus

I really don't think key people in FLS understand the MMORPG gamer or how they think.  They don't know what is important to these people so they don't really know why these people are leaving the game and what to 'fix' to make them stay?

 

Have you moved on from nonexisting Australia market scheme to FLS don't understand MMO or don't know about their own game?

Are you shure you want to play this game, or are you only looking for things to point out in FLS/POTBS?

I still see potential in PotBS.  The idea is there.  There are also issues with the game.  Some of those issues are design issues.  Some can be changed / modified - but some (like the Travel Map) are more difficult to modify at this stage.

I try to judge a game for what it is and look at what can be achieved around the basic mechanics the Devs have built.
IMHO there ARE things the Devs can do to 'improve' this game for the MMO crowd based on the game as it is.  But, as I say they don't seem to understand the MMO gamers' way of thinking yet.
Contrary to what some people might think I am not a housing nut... but I know that many MMOers are.  It's something positive FLS could do NOW with tools already in place.

They are also very inexperianced running an MMO and it shows.  That is not a criticism - its a fact.
I really wish they would fly DOC from CRS (WWIIoL) over for a week and just buy him whiskey and pick his brains - otherwise they will have to learn the hard way.
"We tried this - they hated it... we tried this - they loved it!  Go figure?"

As for the whole Aussie thing... wait and watch-I am. :-)

Originally posted by Hi-Five

...
 
-No naval fleet stratgey, either you are in the fight or not in the fight
... 

Again, no major modifications required for this one.

Threads like this always pop up for new games but I can safely say that the population is still briming and expanding.   Lately I log on at 7-8am in the morning and the EU server is either medium or heavy across all nations.  The US servers pretty much duplicating this with the lightest being for Spain.  So considering it is about 1am in the USA and 7-8am GMT and its that full I can safely say its doing fine.

Originally posted by grunty

By that logic Silk Road Online should be non-existent due to it's lack of posting in these forums.  Yet it's servers are bursting at the seams.

Originally posted by chryses

Threads like this always pop up for new games but I can safely say that the population is still briming and expanding.   Lately I log on at 7-8am in the morning and the EU server is either medium or heavy across all nations.  The US servers pretty much duplicating this with the lightest being for Spain.  So considering it is about 1am in the USA and 7-8am GMT and its that full I can safely say its doing fine.

 

You are seeing high water mark for a week, not current number of players. Also nobody really know how many players certain category represents, indications are that cca 100 per faction makes a "medium". At any rate that just means sometimes during the past week there was cca 100 players logged in at one point.

Yesterday there was only one heavy (British on Roberts), the rest being split between medium and light.

Just my observation, take it as you will.

Originally posted by Illyrian

 

Originally posted by chryses

Threads like this always pop up for new games but I can safely say that the population is still briming and expanding.   Lately I log on at 7-8am in the morning and the EU server is either medium or heavy across all nations.  The US servers pretty much duplicating this with the lightest being for Spain.  So considering it is about 1am in the USA and 7-8am GMT and its that full I can safely say its doing fine.

 

 

You are seeing high water mark for a week, not current number of players. Also nobody really know how many players certain category represents, indications are that cca 100 per faction makes a "medium". At any rate that just means sometimes during the past week there was cca 100 players logged in at one point.

 

Yesterday there was only one heavy (British on Roberts), the rest being split between medium and light.

 

Just my observation, take it as you will.

DIdn't FLS just change the /who command and the ability of being able to see how many people are online per faction? And changing what Light, Medium and Heavy player levels mean, seems to be an attempt to move the the goal posts, to hide bad news. Seems to me that $OE might have done this before, I wonder who suggested this idea....

I think the biggest lesson to be gleaned from this games situation is:  Play to your strengths.

Way back at the beginning, at its inception, they were looking to make a VERY detailed sailing sim.  Eventually, they decided to soften it for a broader audience.  They were doing a nice job on the hardcore sailing sim.  The sailing as it is now is criticised for being either too easy or too unrealistic.  They should have stuck to their strength.

From very early on, societies were forming on the forums.  Lots of work were put into the guilds.  And, at release, you saw the fruition of that work:  The guilds carried the game.  Heck, go back on these forums, and you'll see plenty of people defending the play with, "You need to join a guild" sentiment.  This was, and is still, a potential strength.  However, the devs never put much effort into designs for the guild-centric player.  Guildhalls, mission generators, guild-run towns/cities, even the ability to declare war on another guild, have all been largely ignored by the design...in favor of the avatar combat.  They should have focused on their strength.

About a year and a half ago, they abruptly decided to add avatar combat...to a game that had been a ship simulator in its earliest form.  They stated it would only take about 6 months to get it ready and in for release.  It took a whole year, and is STILL not ready, by most players standards.  For four years, they avoided avatar combat, then tried to squeeze it in at the end.  Its their biggest weakness, as highlighted by nearly every reviewer.  They should have stuck to their strength.

I won't speculate as to why they made the changes or moves that they did...but, there are plenty of theories that one can come up with.  Bottom line, though, is they got away from the things they as a company, and their fans as potential customers, were good at....and in the end, produced a game with as many weaknesses as strengths.

If you're gonna go down, at least go down doing what you do best.