General Discussion

Originally posted by MadAce

 

Originally posted by baff

Originally posted by methane47

 Not true.. both these games got pirated OUt the wazoo.. to the point where both of them have spoken publicly about it.

And one of the COD developers specifically said that he was astonished at the percentage of pirated COD copies that were playing multiplayer online (and he doesn't know the amount that haven't taken the game online)

Piracy is a BIG issue. BIG BIG issue.. and developers will only neglect PC gamers more and more... if the pirating continues

 

I tell you what, when they make COD5, see if they still release a PC version.

See if they still think it is profitable to do so.

 

They have sold 400,000 copies of COD 4 on PC. How many man hours do you think they spent adapting it to work on PC? They should be laughing.

But they can't. The Xbox version sold millions and now they feel all cheated.

I'd have a lot more sympathy if it wasn't someone who earns three times as much as me complaining. If it wasn't the biggest selling video game of last year, or if they were in any danger of going out of business.
Boo Hoo.

Really boo hoo hoo. How I lie awake at night lamenting their misery. How I fear that they might never make another PC game.

If only.

What a bunch of whinners. Imagine what they would be like if they had made a loss. Imagine living in their house and leaving the light on overnight by accident, or buying the wrong coloured loo roll.

 

So what do the developers of COD4 make? Could you link me to that? I've always been interested about HOW profitable game developing really is.

50K USD on their first job straight out of college for the artists.

It varies a bit depending where in the world you live. Junior management adds 6-10k, so lead artist etc.

And the the boffins, the AI guys, the netcoders the game engine mechanics, they pretty much name their prices. These guys are so hard to find they can name their prices and take the piss with their hours etc. Which is why so many games are just "mods".  Just the same game engine as all the others with new artwork.

COD4 for example is a Quake 3 mod. So there aren't any clever employee's at all. Just an art factory. Cheap and cheerful, an investors dream. Produced quickly and with low cost labour. They pump these out at speed of one a year. With an established brandname, using an engine that works on all the new platforms too.

The publishers made decent a profit on the PC game sales alone.

A good place to look for jobs in video games would be www.gamasutra.com. Yuo can check out salaries there. 

Originally posted by baff

50K USD on their first job straight out of college for the artists.

It varies a bit depending where in the world you live. Junior management adds 6-10k, so lead artist etc.

And the the boffins, the AI guys, the netcoders the game engine mechanics, they pretty much name their prices. These guys are so hard to find they can name their prices and take the piss with their hours etc. Which is why so many games are just "mods".  Just the same game engine as all the others with new artwork.

COD4 for example is a Quake 3 mod. So there aren't any clever employee's at all. Just an art factory. Cheap and cheerful, an investors dream. Produced quickly and with low cost labour. They pump these out at speed of one a year. With an established brandname, using an engine that works on all the new platforms too.

The publishers made decent a profit on the PC game sales alone. 

A good place to look for jobs in video games would be www.gamasutra.com. Yuo can check out salaries there. 

I don't think you understand game development at all

ESPECIALLY

....if you think making COD4 doesn't take any clever employees

... if you think COD4 was a quick and easy thing to create

Infinity Ward worked on COD4 for 2 years.. another company created COD3...

Infinity Ward's engine for COD4 is NOT a mod of the Quake 3 engine.. it was built from the ground up.

Publishers make tonnes of money... but the actual developers don't.

it is PAINFULLY obvious that you're talking out your butt right now. please stop

Think of that 50k number again.. Most US developers are located in CA... do you know the price of living there? Do you really think that 50k a year is good wage for the expensive price of living in CA + working 60-80 hours a week with no Overtime pay? And guess what.. despite all of that.. your job isn't even secured....

Do you think I even care about developers personal problems?

Do you think my job is secured? Do you think I get paid overtime? Do you think I live somewhere cheap?

I've lived in San Jose by the way, the cost of living in CA is very cheap compared to where I live (half price), and programmers can expect to earn 25% more and be taxed 20% less.

(They do however work longer hours than they are expected to here) although that really would depend on the job, Ive seen some very underworked people in San Jose. 

And yes of course I think 50k a year is good pay for someone's first job. I think it's fantastic pay. You won't find young people with as much money in any other industry on the planet. That's 50 k for a job you can walk into with no qualifications, just a portfolio you made up in your school holidays. What are the other 18 year olds, stacking shelves at Tesco or working behind the bar making? $20k?

Developers make decent pay. All the developers I know are well paid professionals. They drink in the most expensive bars, they wear expensive clothes.

The Development studio bosses I know all own supercars and live in big houses and are around the same age as me.

Who are you trying to kid?

Infinity Ward's engine is the Quake 3 engine. Built from the ground up my arse. That's the ID Tech 3 engine. They bought it "off the shelf". They have modified this version more than the previous two versions to bump up the sound and number of unit's it can display at one time in line with modern hardware capabilites. Presumably they felt this was cheaper than licensing the ID Tech 4 or the ID Tech 5 engine.

COD 4 was quick and easy to create. It's a one year development. There are two parts of the developement that impress me. The art direction, and the quality control. Other than that, it is a formula game. A FPS mod on the quake engine of whihc there scores on the market already.

A one year development is an extremely short time. You might note that development studio's are more normally noted for making expansion packs in this period of time. That's why their games are so short. They don't have time to make the content.

I would be more impressed if I didn't know so many school children who have made their own quake and unreal mods. If I hadn't seen games like Counterstrike or Tac Ops. If I hadn't played literally thousands of homemade fan maps on any number of game engines. If I didn't know better I would think COD4 was difficult to make. Only I do know better.

It took them 1 year to make. It took Valve 8 years to make Halflife 2. It's the difference between a Jackson Pollack and a Rembrandt.

Call of Duty 4 wasn't quick to make. It took them two years to develop, not one. The reason that Call of Duty 3 was made by Treyarch, and not Infinity Ward, is because Activision wanted to give IW the  time to make a truly outstanding game.  Likewise, Call of Duty 5 will be made by Treyarch again.

Two years is still quick GL.

They don't come much quicker than that.

Vivendi gave Valve time to make a truely outstanding game.

Vivendi gave Blizzard time to make a truely outstanding game.

Activision gave Infinity Ward time to make a truely mediocre game.

COD was bug free on launch which is saying a lot in todays climate. Activision gave them time for that, (although Treyarch needed longer apparently), but it hasn't given them time for any innovation or any amount of content. 

This isn't "a great" game, it's just this years installment of a formula cash cow.

Originally posted by baff

Two years is still quick GL.

They don't come much quicker than that.

 

Vivendi gave Valve time to make a truely outstanding game.

Vivendi gave Blizzard time to make a truely outstanding game.

 

Activision gave Infinity Ward time to make a truely mediocre game.

 

COD was bug free on launch which is saying a lot in todays climate. Activision gave them time for that, (although Treyarch needed longer apparently), but it hasn't given them time for any innovation or any amount of content. 

This isn't "a great" game, it's just this years installment of a formula cash cow.

 

Call of Duty scored a 92.6% on Gamerankings (PC version) and has won multiple Game of the Year Awards. Saying it's Mediocre is downright incorrect.

if Vivendi has given Valve 8 year of development time for Half Life 2, then I can't help but wonder what the heck Valve has been doing in those 8 years because I can't really say that Half Life 2 has 8 years worth of content in it, I finished it in 8 hours (Only 2 hours more then I finished CoD4 singleplayer), and lets not get started on the word multiplayer.

Halife 2 and WoW have all earnt far more awards than COD has.

That COD4 has won any GOTY's at all, says more about the number of PC games released this year than it does about COD.

However, it hasn't won "mulitple" GOTY's it's only won Gamepsy's.

You describe it as "outstanding".

In your own words what stands out about it?

Why is this different to any other kill a zillion badguy shooters out there?

And yes, lets not get started on it's completely substandard multiplayer. Battlefield 2 this is not. This is still a very poor game compared to America's Army. The market is full of games like this. What is "outstanding" about it's multiplayer?

It has a good multiplayer? Hello?  Have you tried Planetside yet? Have you installed Quake Wars or Savage 2? Good compared to what..... Halo on the Xbox?

Are there any unique selling points at all?

Here is what I think is unique. The art direction. There are two single player maps that are original. The rolling decks of the oil tanker, and the gunners view from the AC130.

(Although to be fair I've played on rolling decks before in The Ship and the AC130 has been in Virtual Battlespace for years http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc7XXGFWh_M )

That's it.

All the rest is not outstanding. It is "the same".

Medal of Honour, Medal of Honour: Airborne,COD, COD2, COD4, the same.

What stands out about it's plot, theme or gameplay? What stands out about the graphics, sound or music? What stands out about it's multiplayer? Perhaps it's the AI?

Why does this game stand out from Crysis, F.E.A.R., S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Half Life 2?

Why does it stand out from BattleField 2, Armed Assault and America's Army, Quake Wars?

Answer: it doesn't. It looks very poor indeed compared to them. 

It'a good little game with high production values, but it's mediocre to play and nothing to write home about. It's theme is positively juvenile and essentially is right up the average Chuck Norris fan's street. I enjoy Steven Segal movies as much as the next man, of course, but obviously I wouldn't pay to see one.

An average game targetted at the teen market, with below average content and above average production values.

Ask yourself seriously GL, will you still be playing this game in one months time. Once you uninstall it, will you ever re-install it. When you friends come over will you marvel at it with them and play it all through again just so they can see?

Is it really "great" or just good.