Star Wars Galaxies

Originally posted by saay

Over 50k means average 2k per server, and seeing as some are bigger than others - there are, quite clearly, thousands of players to play with. Regardless, this statement merely means that one has the chance or ability of playing with thousands of others since the game has the capacity - it doesnt garuntee tere will be 1000s of others. Just like a game may say - "become the post powerful knight", doesnt mean it garuntees you will.

saay, quit pulling numbers out of thin air. You have as much proof there is 50k players playing SW:G as anyone else here saying there is less or more. No one knows but SOE, plain and simple. You can continue to deny there is a server population problem all you want, but the official forums and players say differently. Just because your server doesn't seem to have the problems the majority do with population, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

There is already precedent set about this subject of false advertising as shown in the last link I posted in my last post. The UO players tried to sue for a buggy and horrible game and they lost. Let's just leave it at we all have a difference of opinion.

There are fewer than 25K paid subscribers to SWG.  SWG also doesn't even manage 10K concurrent logins at peak, it started falling short of that last year.

Originally posted by Dracis

 

Originally posted by saay

Over 50k means average 2k per server, and seeing as some are bigger than others - there are, quite clearly, thousands of players to play with. Regardless, this statement merely means that one has the chance or ability of playing with thousands of others since the game has the capacity - it doesnt garuntee tere will be 1000s of others. Just like a game may say - "become the post powerful knight", doesnt mean it garuntees you will.

saay, quit pulling numbers out of thin air. You have as much proof there is 50k players playing SW:G as anyone else here saying there is less or more. No one knows but SOE, plain and simple. You can continue to deny there is a server population problem all you want, but the official forums and players say differently. Just because your server doesn't seem to have the problems the majority do with population, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

There is already precedent set about this subject of false advertising as shown in the last link I posted in my last post. The UO players tried to sue for a buggy and horrible game and they lost. Let's just leave it at we all have a difference of opinion.

Also, I don't believe that particular suit involved a bait and switch, like the NGE.  Had SOE not offered refunds to everyone they baited via the Trials of Obi Wan features that the NGE removed, it's very likely that a class action suit would have occured.  It was being explored when the refund policy was enacted.  This was a victory for players who got their refund, but also a p.r. victory for SOE in that they avoided even more bad press via the lawsuit.

People will say that SOE wasn't worried about the lawsuit.  I disagree.  The refund policy change backs up my viewpoint.  Also, try to find any evidence online regarding the features that SOE advertised in the ToOW; the features that they then removed 2 weeks after purchase, and that they announced would be removed the day after payment was received.  This evidence has apparently been removed or "cleaned up" in one of the largest online damage control operations I've ever seen.

This company people defend just reeks of bad ethics.  What's sad about that (well another thing I guess), is the people who defend SOE or SWG currently, have probably been lied to themselves.  I'm convinced that SOE even misled their own employees regarding the NGE. 

Remember when SOE staff denied the starter kits were coming out?  I wouldn't be surprised if they were told this, and then passed along information they "thought" was true.  Of course, it wasn't.

There's a good reason why there is a lot of turnover at SOE, and why they're currently having to work so hard to try to attract developers.  I feel badly for anyone that's sucked into their recruitment campaign as long as they continue to be managed by people that have a proven track record of dishonest and unethical behaviour.

If one of my kids got an opportunity to work at SOE as some kind of scholarship program, for example, I'd sooner pay cash to have them get a good experience in a positive work environment.  If they'd change their management team and business philosophy, I'd think differently, but I haven't seen evidence of that yet.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

 

In the UO suit, neither side "lost."  They settled out of court, and the game company agreed to pay $15000 to an educational program about gaming innovation.  This seems appropriate for a company that used the term "innovation" to justify what they did to their game.

 

Also, I don't believe that particular suit involved a bait and switch, like the NGE.  Had SOE not offered refunds to everyone they baited via the Trials of Obi Wan features that the NGE removed, it's very likely that a class action suit would have occured.  It was being explored when the refund policy was enacted.  This was a victory for players who got their refund, but also a p.r. victory for SOE in that they avoided even more bad press via the lawsuit.

People will say that SOE wasn't worried about the lawsuit.  I disagree.  The refund policy change backs up my viewpoint.  Also, try to find any evidence online regarding the features that SOE advertised in the ToOW; the features that they then removed 2 weeks after purchase, and that they announced would be removed the day after payment was received.  This evidence has apparently been removed or "cleaned up" in one of the largest online damage control operations I've ever seen.

This company people defend just reeks of bad ethics.  What's sad about that (well another thing I guess), is the people who defend SOE or SWG currently, have probably been lied to themselves.  I'm convinced that SOE even misled their own employees regarding the NGE. 

Remember when SOE staff denied the starter kits were coming out?  I wouldn't be surprised if they were told this, and then passed along information they "thought" was true.  Of course, it wasn't.

There's a good reason why there is a lot of turnover at SOE, and why they're currently having to work so hard to try to attract developers.  I feel badly for anyone that's sucked into their recruitment campaign as long as they continue to be managed by people that have a proven track record of dishonest and unethical behaviour.

If one of my kids got an opportunity to work at SOE as some kind of scholarship program, for example, I'd sooner pay cash to have them get a good experience in a positive work environment.  If they'd change their management team and business philosophy, I'd think differently, but I haven't seen evidence of that yet.

The point comes down to, and the original topic of this thread, could anyone sue them now? I don't believe so, for the reasons you and I have already mentioned and by that particular court case involving UO. While it's not exactly the same, a judge may look at that and see similarities. In the UO case they didn't get the refunds and refunded game time they originally sought. SOE did refund the price of ToOW for those who wanted it, but SOE did not give refunds on previously purchased game time. Here's a link that better describes what the lawsuit was about: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/ultima-online/trivia . From what I'm reading on that site, it almost could be taken as a "bait and switch" because some players did not know they had to pay a monthly subscription fee because it was not on the box. There were other reasons, but I guess now we know why alot of the EULA's are written like they are.

In my research, there was also another lawsuit against UO for having players help out as GM's or CSR's or both. In that one they players won, from what I can find. Considering both of these lawsuits are over 8 years old, I'm just happy to have found what little information I did.

In closing, yes I agree SOE did the unethical and wrong thing. I don't think we vets need to fight over it. We should be the voice that continues to nag SOE and every other MMO company never, ever to do this again. As well as be the voice of reason when it comes to current players making false statements.

Originally posted by salvaje

There are fewer than 25K paid subscribers to SWG.  SWG also doesn't even manage 10K concurrent logins at peak, it started falling short of that last year.

 

The game is dead, let it die already.

Originally posted by saay

 

Originally posted by salvaje

There are fewer than 25K paid subscribers to SWG.  SWG also doesn't even manage 10K concurrent logins at peak, it started falling short of that last year.

 

Oh yes and also, my sources, very reliable, i assure you, tell me that pigs have now, actually started mutating, growing wings, and as a result, have been able to fly.

 

 

That is what will happen long before the NGE ever has 50K paid subs or 10K concurrent peak logins again.

Originally posted by Dracis

 

Originally posted by saay

Over 50k means average 2k per server, and seeing as some are bigger than others - there are, quite clearly, thousands of players to play with. Regardless, this statement merely means that one has the chance or ability of playing with thousands of others since the game has the capacity - it doesnt garuntee tere will be 1000s of others. Just like a game may say - "become the post powerful knight", doesnt mean it garuntees you will.

saay, quit pulling numbers out of thin air. You have as much proof there is 50k players playing SW:G as anyone else here saying there is less or more. No one knows but SOE, plain and simple. You can continue to deny there is a server population problem all you want, but the official forums and players say differently. Just because your server doesn't seem to have the problems the majority do with population, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

There is already precedent set about this subject of false advertising as shown in the last link I posted in my last post. The UO players tried to sue for a buggy and horrible game and they lost. Let's just leave it at we all have a difference of opinion.

I never denied there are server population problems - many are transfering to around 6 or 7 more populated servers, but that doesnt mean that the numbers arent sufficiently high, i meet brand new people quite often ( ie new to the game), and only every now and then see people go. I know there is a problem - but as long as new players continue to join and as long as they do a server merge of people off their own accord all move to 6 galaxies or something, then we're good - im not disputing that its hard, and no wonder after what the games been through, but its looking and feeling alot better in game that it used to a year ago.

I have absolutely no inside knowledge on this, but I strongly suspect that Tiggs' abrupt departure was due to her being pissed that she had been personally lied to about the starter kit, and that she then, in good faith, put that lie out to the playerbase and her crediblity was damaged as a result when the NGE was announced.

It's also my understanding that more than a few SWG employees left because they had been kept in the dark on the NGE and their work over the five or so months between the CU's debut and the NGE was nullified, and they'd also been lied to repeatedly by management.