After sitting around having a few beers with old friends last night the conversation inevitable came up regarding games, inparticularly SWG. One of my friends brought up a point that SWG suffered due to the introduction of vehicles because the game lost that "frontier" feeling.

Now of course we're talking about a game that is supposed to be set in a universe that is somewhat technologically advanced, yet somehow vehicles seemed to hurt the overall feeling of danger in the wilderness.

For those people that remember playing the game without vehicles and mounts, given the option to do it all over again how important would vehicles be to you?

There is no doubt when the game had no transporation except on foot, shuttles or starports, the game felt bigger. I didn't have to go far to feel like I was out in the wilds, far from any civilization. I was a crafter foremost, so I had to survey on foot...this took many hours and made finding good concentrations time consuming (and often dangerous), BUT I recall those times with a 'warm and fuzzy'. Going out with my ranger/CH hubby helping me and sitting around in his camps strategizing our next move as we healed/rested. There were nights that rolled into the wee hours in the morning becasue of a late spawning uber resource requiring the immediate planting of harvesters, which was particularly brutal on worknights. Aaahhh...those were classic times.

Vehicles turned my surveying and harvester maintenance into a cake walk for the most part. Vehicles went very fast and did take away some of the sense of immersion I used to have out in the wilds, but the benefits offset that. I had more time for crafting, fighting and socializing. 

Vehicles did very profoundly affect the feel of the game.  Mounts did not, as you couldn't evade mobs on a mount the way you could on a vehicle, particularly since when you drew aggro, the mount slowed down to about half burst run speed to force the issue of combat on you.

Zipping around on Dathomir on a speeder defintely changes the danger of Dath.  Likewise the rest of the adventure planets.

If there were no vehicles, the run to the Village would have been a very different experience, except for the "please kill me" after you'd done all your business there.

The run home from Mos Espa was painful without a vehicle.  It did change the feel of the game but there was something to hopping on my speeder and being able to run to my house and log....  Cruising across planet to a player city was enjoyable where without was actually a painful 10 to 15 minutes of wasted time.

Originally posted by Tazdax

The run home from Mos Espa was painful without a vehicle.  It did change the feel of the game but there was something to hopping on my speeder and being able to run to my house and log....  Cruising across planet to a player city was enjoyable where without was actually a painful 10 to 15 minutes of wasted time.

Thats funny because I remember having to run 5000m to get to my player city to log out, and that was kinda fun. It was dangerous for me as a crafter to run that far on Dantooine with no vehicle, and that increased the thrill factor of travelling.

they shoulda made it where mounts did not slow down, and you could use skills on them. That would have made my SWGs expirience. I didnt really like vehicles. It made everything so much closer and easier, Mounts on the other hand were slower then vehicles and you could shoot off them, wich is why i liked them and wanted them to be more important in SWG

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by Tazdax

The run home from Mos Espa was painful without a vehicle.  It did change the feel of the game but there was something to hopping on my speeder and being able to run to my house and log....  Cruising across planet to a player city was enjoyable where without was actually a painful 10 to 15 minutes of wasted time.

Thats funny because I remember having to run 5000m to get to my player city to log out, and that was kinda fun. It was dangerous for me as a crafter to run that far on Dantooine with no vehicle, and that increased the thrill factor of travelling.

How about the run to Jabas place,I remember that very well.Got to quit coming to this forum..memories..

Originally posted by Suvroc

After sitting around having a few beers with old friends last night the conversation inevitable came up regarding games, inparticularly SWG. One of my friends brought up a point that SWG suffered due to the introduction of vehicles because the game lost that "frontier" feeling.

Now of course we're talking about a game that is supposed to be set in a universe that is somewhat technologically advanced, yet somehow vehicles seemed to hurt the overall feeling of danger in the wilderness.

For those people that remember playing the game without vehicles and mounts, given the option to do it all over again how important would vehicles be to you?

I am all for exploring and terrain and all the fun of experiencing a games "maps".  However, if you want to equate swg problems with vechiles and shuttle wait times as "content" you are just pre-cu wacked. 

SWG needed a WHOLE lot of content.  No I didn't need it per say to enjoy the game and I'd still play.  However, most people don't want to deal with realistic travel in games.  Make no mistake about what held back pre-cu was nothing more then a total lack of content.

Its all fine to have an awesome sandbox.  You still want toys.  SWG had nothing but an empty grind.

Not trying to be rude as I loved pre-cu.  I hated travel.  Just let me go to the content please.  Why is it so hard to let people experience content.

Oh because Swg content for BH use to be running to way points shooting an NPC that couldn't harm a flee and running back.  Look swg content stunk.  Imp missions, reb missions, jabba's.  POI's, I had about every badge.  The only ones worth a struggle was the race tracks.

Well, I didn't come into until after vehicles came in, but I have to say I remember quite a few times having my swoop disabled and having to hoof it back to a city with a star port or shuttle. I never really minded the wait times for the shuttles, although 10 minutes was a bit much, but I thought it was fine when they changed it to 5 minutes. I met a lot of great people sitting waiting for the shuttle. I remember all the jokes, duels, people just BS'ing about what they were up to. It didn't matter what faction or guild you were in, it was just a place to socialize while on the way to your next destination.

Even though I had my speeder, I still spent loads of time just exploring and not just to hit the POI's. That was one of the things I hoped for in DnL that never came about really, the chance to be a real explorer. While SW:G had the POI badges and such, IU always kind of whish they had a "fog of war" type system where unless you explored that area, you couldn't see it on your map.

I will agree though, SW:G did need some more content. Not necessarily quests or anything like that and certinly not what they have now, just something a bit more. It never bothered me though, I always find something to do. Grind on Mokk's and Janta's on Dant for credits and bits, or go hunting for a crafter friend, until I started crafting myself, or even just hang out and randomly buff noobs in Mos Eisley ( that always surprised them when I did that). SW:G had a very good social aspect, it's just too bad that part is gone forever.

I remember early on a bunch of my guildies and I were at fort tusken.  It was actually a very challenging dungeon back then.  Several of us had had a great deal of battle fatigue and we were resting in a safe spot outside the fort.  I had a friend that was an entertainer and I ran clear out to mos espa so I could escort her back to the fort.  She was a master entertainer master tailor if I remember right.  The jog back was interesting, I a master CH/Pistoleer having to drop to a walk at every rise in topography because she had absolutely no terrain negotiation skill lol.

However, to the original question the original introduction of vehicles and mounts did have an effect on gameplay.  Though it was not nearly as detrimental to the game and the community as subsequent changes.  For example just missing a shuttle meant 10 minutes of hanging out and socializing/pvp'ing in the star ports.  There were no instant travel vehicles and the like.  Every subsequent change they made to the game took things more and more to a drastic dumbing down of the game that is easily unparalleled in the history of gaming.

The day that this game gets shut down completely will be a day that all gamers will be able to rejoice.

Originally posted by Suvroc

After sitting around having a few beers with old friends last night the conversation inevitable came up regarding games, inparticularly SWG. One of my friends brought up a point that SWG suffered due to the introduction of vehicles because the game lost that "frontier" feeling.

Now of course we're talking about a game that is supposed to be set in a universe that is somewhat technologically advanced, yet somehow vehicles seemed to hurt the overall feeling of danger in the wilderness.

For those people that remember playing the game without vehicles and mounts, given the option to do it all over again how important would vehicles be to you?

Yeah I remember doing that, and it was fun trying to dodge my way through to get to safety, for a while anyway..  I  remember getting quite a ways to my destination only to die, having to clone, and find my dead corpse..  those were the days...LOL.  It did get old after doing that a couple of times.  Vehicles did take the challenge out of the equation, and some of the excitement.

Originally posted by haxxjoo

 

Originally posted by Suvroc

After sitting around having a few beers with old friends last night the conversation inevitable came up regarding games, inparticularly SWG. One of my friends brought up a point that SWG suffered due to the introduction of vehicles because the game lost that "frontier" feeling.

Now of course we're talking about a game that is supposed to be set in a universe that is somewhat technologically advanced, yet somehow vehicles seemed to hurt the overall feeling of danger in the wilderness.

For those people that remember playing the game without vehicles and mounts, given the option to do it all over again how important would vehicles be to you?

Ground travel was nothing but a useless boring utterly pointless stupid time sink of the utter stupidiest proportion.

 

I am all for exploring and terrain and all the fun of experiencing a games "maps".  However, if you want to equate swg problems with vechiles and shuttle wait times as "content" you are just pre-cu wacked. 

SWG needed a WHOLE lot of content.  No I didn't need it per say to enjoy the game and I'd still play.  However, most people don't want to deal with realistic travel in games.  Make no mistake about what held back pre-cu was nothing more then a total lack of content.

Its all fine to have an awesome sandbox.  You still want toys.  SWG had nothing but an empty grind.

Not trying to be rude as I loved pre-cu.  I hated travel.  Just let me go to the content please.  Why is it so hard to let people experience content.

Oh because Swg content for BH use to be running to way points shooting an NPC that couldn't harm a flee and running back.  Look swg content stunk.  Imp missions, reb missions, jabba's.  POI's, I had about every badge.  The only ones worth a struggle was the race tracks.

Well then what if there was a compromise? Either slow the vehicles down to where the wilderness could be dangerous again, or just have mounts?

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by haxxjoo

 

Originally posted by Suvroc

After sitting around having a few beers with old friends last night the conversation inevitable came up regarding games, inparticularly SWG. One of my friends brought up a point that SWG suffered due to the introduction of vehicles because the game lost that "frontier" feeling.

Now of course we're talking about a game that is supposed to be set in a universe that is somewhat technologically advanced, yet somehow vehicles seemed to hurt the overall feeling of danger in the wilderness.

For those people that remember playing the game without vehicles and mounts, given the option to do it all over again how important would vehicles be to you?

Ground travel was nothing but a useless boring utterly pointless stupid time sink of the utter stupidiest proportion.

 

I am all for exploring and terrain and all the fun of experiencing a games "maps".  However, if you want to equate swg problems with vechiles and shuttle wait times as "content" you are just pre-cu wacked. 

SWG needed a WHOLE lot of content.  No I didn't need it per say to enjoy the game and I'd still play.  However, most people don't want to deal with realistic travel in games.  Make no mistake about what held back pre-cu was nothing more then a total lack of content.

Its all fine to have an awesome sandbox.  You still want toys.  SWG had nothing but an empty grind.

Not trying to be rude as I loved pre-cu.  I hated travel.  Just let me go to the content please.  Why is it so hard to let people experience content.

Oh because Swg content for BH use to be running to way points shooting an NPC that couldn't harm a flee and running back.  Look swg content stunk.  Imp missions, reb missions, jabba's.  POI's, I had about every badge.  The only ones worth a struggle was the race tracks.

Well then what if there was a compromise? Either slow the vehicles down to where the wilderness could be dangerous again, or just have mounts?

Yeah, mounts alone would have solved the problem.  I can understand bringing in the bikes to make it star warsy. I can remember thinking, "well sh1t, if your going to bring in bikes, make them fast".  Might as well do it right, if it's going to be done. (I know, I'm hard to please..) lol

Heh, even after veicles came out, I kept on hoofing it mostly.

That way, leaving a city was an adventure in its own..

It wasnt "trivial" to go from the outpost to the village. It wasn't trivial to go to fort tusken... Heck It wasn't trivial to go home to our guilds fort...

The adventure stayed as long as I kept away from my bike...

After I started using my bike(my own damn fault), the game became very small and trivial. Suddenly I went from being an adventurer to someone who just rode around to the next dungeon or hotspot or mission... Everything in between was just scenery, even the Kimogila and the Krayt...

After vehicles came about, the game took a general turn into "dungeon" mode for real. No one wanted to run out of a city any more and just hunt. No one wanted to run out to fort tusken (and gain half a skillbox in the process) for some tusken hunting.

My best memory from the game, was when a small group of my friends ran from Jabbas and up to the Jawa village.. A trip that went from the SW part of the planet to the NW part of the planet. The trip took us hours as we dodged, fought and retreated our way.. Ofcourse, none of us were "FOTM", but rather our own builds of dancers, musicians, carbineers, commandos, armorsmith and even a tad bit BH...

We were ambushed by Krayts, separated, mangled and terrorized by the critters on the way. So bad that after we got separated after a Krayt Attack it took us an hour to find the dancer.. Who's incidently had huddled up with some Imperial Stormtrooper NPC's on a mountain... Surrounded by aggressive mobs..Wich the stormtroopers fought whenever they attacked the dancer heh.

She was real happy to see us and have us escort her out of there and the 2km run to the jawa camp.

That trip was one of the greatest adventures I've ever had in any game or MMO.

I did the same trip on my bike, to try to get back the feeling(on my bike..I'm my very own moron) of adventure...

The trip took less than 10 minutes, and I never fired a shot... It was so trivial and boring, that I dozed off halfway there, sleepdriving past the jawa camp and up into the planet corner..

Fast travel is a "need" for gamers they say when the world is big... But it also removes the adventure, removes the hazzard, removes the terror and removes the fun in going anywhere but to the "dungeons".

Look at todays AAA MMO's and you see players only be concerned about zipping through the quests, zipping through the dungeons and level up ASAP... Because everything else in the game is a trivial nuisanse. Heck devs shouldn't be making humoungous MMORPG's any more... They should just make em small, and have all the dungeons and mission spots withing 1m walking distance of eachother... Because thats what fast travel does to BIG MMO's... the world is a nuisance, the animals is a nuisance, everything that keeps you from getting your quest completed or the dungeon ran through in mere seconds..is a nuisance.

I also remember using /sprint when things got really hairy, so It wasn't that bad without the bikes.  I think if they used mounts alone, that would have been enjoyable.

I say the way that vehicles were brought in were a bad not the vehicles themselves. In the sense they shouldnt be as fast as they are. I think mobs should be more responsive to those who are on bikes. and so on.

If mobs reacted more to vehicles and vehicles were slower than they are make them say 50-80% faster than running it would bring back that feel.

Vehicles are needed in a game like SWG.  The issue was that people used vehicles to get everywhere like through the woods on Endor.  The movies demonstrated how dangerous that was, but in SWG your vehicles just bounced off trees.  If they implemented severe damage penalties for bumping into stuff and cleared out travel routes on the more traveled planets, I think vehicles would have been great.

People would have used them on travel routes and driven slow on terrain that should be traversed by foot, or they would simply travel by foot in those places.

Originally posted by Suvroc

After sitting around having a few beers with old friends last night the conversation inevitable came up regarding games, inparticularly SWG. One of my friends brought up a point that SWG suffered due to the introduction of vehicles because the game lost that "frontier" feeling.

Now of course we're talking about a game that is supposed to be set in a universe that is somewhat technologically advanced, yet somehow vehicles seemed to hurt the overall feeling of danger in the wilderness.

For those people that remember playing the game without vehicles and mounts, given the option to do it all over again how important would vehicles be to you?

I used to bitch long and loud about the wait time at shuttleports and starports, but to be honest the wait wasn't that bad.  I do think the introduction of vehicles was a good move, even an essential one - it wouldn't be Star Wars without them, similar to our complaint about a lack of capital starships.  But at the same time, instant travel undermines the community - waiting affords the opportunity to interact, and being social animals, we usually avail ourselves of it when we can.  We all met friends while waiting to travel somewhere, and jerks too, but it was worth it - the introduction of speederbikes and mounts was fine, just poorly considered and half-arsed implemented, like everything else.