You know I get supider after each time I read another reply to this topic.

Good for you Blizzard!  Amazingly, this article reads like it was a response to my last comment here on MMORPG. 

I read recently that these "gold farmers" have stolen over 3.5 billion dollars from the US in fraud.  And we paid them to do it.  Imagine what the game companies could do with that stolen 3.5 billion dollars.  Resist the temptation to buy gold; just say No.

I had a great idea for the next great MMO, someone somewhere needs to create a fun game that doesn't use currency and the only way to log in is with voice and thumb print identification and your account ID is your credit card number.

I believe Ozmodan had the fact correct the first time.

You have to know that MANY MANY countries in the world think US legal system is a joke. For example, in china, a lot of companies dont give a crap about what so called "patent". Why? Because people in its goverment made billions of dollars on bribes from chinesse companies who coppied and mass produced.. lets just say.. tupperware items.

Many small, home based inventors, basically being bullied because they cant pay 2 patent rights on 2 different countries. So their latest invention basically being coppied and mass produced with some company based on, for example.. in guangzo, china.

Although i believe blizzard have a hold on chinesse patent.. They still have their thumb up their arses when they try to hunt down these so called "farmers" because some of these people know someone sits in the goverment.

That just one example.. big example.. Now, imagine if the hacker/ farmer/ botter company based on indonesia.. or iran.. how the hell blizzard be able to pursue these people?

Although i dont like those companies.. the truth is america legal system have no hold whatsoever on another country. Except.. we now living in startrek age of discovery.. when earth just become one.. under one banner.. now that would be completely different story.

I read on one article once where a journalist hunting down some ID theifs.. His journey went as far as Africa and it just stop there.. they talked to someone who must have connection with the thief.. but because the police in that African country dont give a crap about "ID thief".. The journalist had to let the guy go..

I applaud blizzard's effort to at least make a statement.. Many companies dont even bother to do so. Trust me.. Blizzard would love to get those farmers.. because that means more key bought by those farmers.. means more money for blizz in the first place.

One of the thing that I believe could stop the influx of farmers/ botters would be to restrict exclusive US servers only for those who connect from.. guess where.. US. That would stop more than 50% of those farmers.. trust me.. At least then, blizzard wont have any excuse not to follow legal suit against those companies based on US soil.

Last but not least.. US residents need to think a little bit.. who the hell causing these problems? Most of the time.. its those people who kept buying.. If they stop buying.. that guy named Umar from Indonesia will have no revenue from the game.. hence.. he simply could not afford to pay the game.. hence there goes another farmer went off to some other game.

Originally posted by tenha

One of the thing that I believe could stop the influx of farmers/ botters would be to restrict exclusive US servers only for those who connect from.. guess where.. US. That would stop more than 50% of those farmers.. trust me.. At least then, blizzard wont have any excuse not to follow legal suit against those companies based on US soil.

For the gaming world, I see China as the biggest threat.  As the previous poster said, their government doesn't care about our legal system.  We can stomp, shout, and bang our heads on the table all we want but as long as these companies are providing paying jobs for their citizens they aren't going to do anything about it. 

The best thing the game companies can do is educate their players.  I'm happy that Blizzard is taking a step in what I see as the right direction.   

Ah, a proxy server..

Yes, that too.. Thats why i never actually blame blizzard for saying "theres not a lot we can do about it". All in all, i think i can say "bravo" to blizzard keeping the game as clean as it is right now.. While being the biggest mmorpg out there.

IMO i think Blizzard is trying very hard to abolish gold buying, if you think about it, alot of good gear and other stuff must be faction grinded, BG's Arena's too name a few which do not require money and faction stuff  which does not cost  that much gold, all the bop and boe. Like some other had mention i think most gold is bought for the big expensive mount, so i say make it a faction grind of some sort. 

  I'm sure some one will say PLZ NO MORE faction grind, well no matter what you either grind faction or gold, what's the diff.  My 2 cents

Originally posted by Shoal

Anybody ever notice that Bliz never states that actually BUYING gold is against TOA and/or EULA ?

And before you shout out that it does, or this press release states that, please go back and read all three carefully.

I agree with Blizzard and their statement in it's entirety.

The issue is not solely with the gold buyers though, it is also with blizzard and how much it costs to buy stuff from vendors (such as food, mounts, etc). To some, gaining 5k is an achievement, to most it is a burden. Yes, if you do all of the daily quests every day you will soon be there, but that isn't the point. Before daily quests were ever around in the game, epic mounts were still 1k. Giving 1k to another player in exchange for an awesome piece of gear is one thing, but giving 1k to a vendor, of which that money will not be redistributed back into the economy, is just downright idiotic. Blizzard says that they are not the ones messing up the economy, but the reality is, they are. The structure of their NPC to PC economy is horrible, and very one-sided. Hell, even in EQ 1 vendors could sometimes run out of money, or have that item that you sold to them buried in their inventory somewhere. You could vendor mine sometimes for some pretty decent pieces of gear.

Anyhow, I got slightly off topic. Blizzard needs to restructure the high priced vendor purchased items. I like... maybe even love what they did with Ogri'la gear. Things like that make sense. Money doesn't just disappear from the economy to never be seen again.

Originally posted by Kanuvani

IMO i think Blizzard is trying very hard to abolish gold buying, if you think about it, alot of good gear and other stuff must be faction grinded, BG's Arena's too name a few which do not require money and faction stuff  which does not cost  that much gold, all the bop and boe. Like some other had mention i think most gold is bought for the big expensive mount, so i say make it a faction grind of some sort. 

  I'm sure some one will say PLZ NO MORE faction grind, well no matter what you either grind faction or gold, what's the diff.  My 2 cents

 

At least faction grind there is more than a singular benefit from getting it up there. I agree with your post. I would also like to note that, when there was the indication that a faction grind (wild hammer to be exact) might provide you with a greatly cheaper mount, blizzard REMOVED the faction from the table (I was revered.... so much for that grind). 5k... thats it, pay it or don't, you can be raising money AND raising rep so that you can get it cheaper... that would just be horrible (even though it would probably take just about the same amount of time, but have a larger overall potential benefit).

LOTRO did something about this ages ago first by porting low level resource takers (after they get killed) back to the starting area's and increasing agro range by 500 percent ,even spawning new ones to kill them quick if they venture into high level area's, and with the new update you can report a spammer in seconds. Like the lorebook WoW is just copying the competition they deserve no accolades for this, too little too late.

I left after BC just came in, if repair costs are still as silly as they used to be thats why gold farmers are so successful, when you raid hardcore and thats how you have your fun you really don't feel like farming for 2 hours to make your repair bill but as I stated, that may have changed since my leaving.

At the end of the day what is really sad here is that thousands if not millions of people feel they need to cheat to play the game. 

Either MMO games are seriously flawed in that they create almost a need to be power leveled or need large infusions of gold/plat or simply that players are now not interested in the game but simply being powerful in an imaginary world.

Perhaps the real question should be, are MMO's more game or more virtual life?  Offline games have their trainers and god modes, but the only person affected is the single player.  In an MMO the social nature of it means one player affects everyone else.   I really think game devs are going to need to address the fact that MMO's aren't like other games and people don't view them as such either.

As long as we the gamers view MMO's or other online social gaming through the lens of single player games, we will never crack this problem of illegal gold/plat farming, power leveling, etc.

Originally posted by TiiKii

I agree with Blizzard on their article..

But

To NOT have so many people buying gold, outside the game, why doesn't Blizzard raise the amount you get per quest.

My god..

When you are very young and work hard to get that quest done, you get ALL of what - 20copper? If you're lucky that is.. And - it goes like this for several lvls.

Pffftt..

This is the only MMO I have played that the quest rewards on money were so slim in the early stages of your adventuring!

 

What in the world are you talking about?  High end quests give around 10g or more.

It all comes down to laziness.  Really, it is not that hard to get the money you need in this game, only the stupid people buy these kind of services.  Like Blizz said, it is affecting everyone when it is done, and needs to stop.  A statement like this only helps.

I got a nice idea to get rid of those problems of gold farmer.. inflation and gold sellers.. but is to maquivelical to speak it here... so i will just say that is something to insane that will shock the world.. the way I got ridden of those gold farmers.... and such...

I buy gold.  Regularly.

Made a few enemies with that one didn't I?  No doubt stir up some high-minded "pity" too and some petty name calling... usually does when I jump in to the fray of these types of discussions.

So, here's your chance to see into the screwed up head of a gold-buying MMO destroyer! 

I love playing WOW.  I despise grinding.  Oops!  Guess that should knock me right out of the MMORPG scene!  Auctioneer and the AH was fun for a bit, then way too much time to manage. 

Like many of you, I have a RL.  In fact, I love RL- my beautiful wife, amazing 5 year old son, many friends.  Participating as a volunteer at a local non-profit.  Working as a sysadmin.  Pretty normal life, really.  And I love it.  So, the little time I have set aside to spend playing WOW with a couple of buddies is precious to me.  Buying gold simply allows me to enjoy the game more with the little time I have set aside to play. I use it to by consumables.  I use it to buy new equipment.  I use it to buy mats to skill up faster and I don't hear ANYONE complaining that they're getting 1g47s from me for a stack of copper ore.  Consider that this is one reason why you find it so easy to get gold in the game... because I'm buying your mats and equipment you got from grinding and harvesting routes... and I'm buying it with gold I bought from the bot who you're pissed off at because it was camping that ore pop on your route!  So, every time you do somersaults for getting 1g47s for that stack of ore, remember, you too are now supporting "spamming, botting and keylogging" through me.  Doh!  Bottom line- I buy gold because it makes the game more enjoyable for me.

I know, I know, y'all have a mind-boggling array of very legitimate ways that the game is "designed" to be enjoyed and "if you can't enjoy the game the way it's designed than get the $%^ out and stop ruining it for the rest of us, you $#*%#()!!!"  Ugh.  But go ahead, fire away, I'm so sure you'll say something really original and very convincing and I'll immediately repent of my wicked ways... sure. <yawn>

See, here's the thing though- NO ONE gets to determine for me what enjoyment is for me.  No one.   If you're frothing at the mouth right now and desire nothing more than PWN me now because of my position here, then I can confidently say that your definitions of enjoyment are not mine!  Go pwn your cat or teddy bear!

Again, the fact is that buying gold and using it for skillz, mats, consumables, new equipment greatly increases my enjoyment of the game.  As disheartening as it may be, until Blizzard gets a hold on that formula and finds a way to make the game enjoyable at that level without buying gold, I'm gonna be buying gold and supporting all the spamming, botting and keylogging evil-doers out there in the process.

Now, here's a little extra for you.  I've been playing WOW since it was released.  I've never had a character over lvl 27, though I've had dozens under 27.  I don't play that much.  I despise grinding.

Side-bar here... pardon me, I digress... Hey Bliz- want to entice me to stop buying gold?  Micro-transactions.  But then, you made it clear at GDC '08 that you are the almighty MMO creator and micro-transactions will never work <cough>.  Writings already on the wall, Bliz... know one needs to make a WOW killer... you're killing yourself with your pride and arrogance... see SOE and EQII for reference.

I think I'll start a new warlock tonight... look for me as "Evilnoob" if it's not taken.  Anyone have any gold for sale?

Ciao!

     cant agree more to your words Eccoton....  

    So just because buying Gold enhances your enjoyment of the game that makes it ok? I can understand why it would be nice to buy gold. Personally, I'm a college student with a serious girlfriend who doesn't have all that much time to play myself. But I still enjoy playing the game, grinding, etc. without having to buy gold. I'm only level 23 at the moment and I still love to play. But I digress. The bottom line is that it is Blizzard's game, Blizzard allows each of us to play it and the least we can do is follow their simple rules. I do not expect to convince you of this, or change your mind, since you already made clear that you are hopelessly lost to the dark side. But, anyway, just stating my opinion. And I do have another question for you jasco. If the gold farmers didn't exist and you had to work for everything, would you still play the game? That is something I would like to know.

    Another point I would like to make is in response not just to you, but to the others who "just hate grinding" and who despise the fact that the game rewards players who invest more time rather than the most skillful players. RPGs have always been about time and repetition. Anyone who has ever played any old-skool Final Fantasy games knows this. Don't come into an MMORPG (again, I stress the RPG part) expecting that you won't have to grind or that you will fly through the game on your way to 70. In my personal opinion, if you don't enjoy the levelling process then you shouldn't be playing WoW, or any other RPG for that matter. That's not to say that any player doesn't have moments when he gets bored of grinding. I know I do. But pleas people, stop complaining about how the game rewards people. It called an RPG for a reason!! And again, it's a flat-out untrue statement to say that the game doesn't reward skill at all. It isn't at the same level as, say, in a FPS, but then again if you want skill, skill, skill, you should probably be playing an FPS anyway. Especially in the arena system and upper level PVP when many characters are similarly geared, skill is usually the determining factor.

    Originally posted by jedimario
    

    "And I do have another question for you jasco. If the gold farmers didn't exist and you had to work for everything, would you still play the game? That is something I would like to know."

    Hey Jedimario, thanks for replying.  Contrary to popular thought, even though I buy gold, I still work in the game.   If I was not able to buy gold which allows me to make personally acceptable progress, albeit in very small chunks at a time, it is likely that I would set WOW aside, that is, unless Blizzard fixed the problems that I address by buying gold.

    The grind doesn't disappear, no matter how much gold one has... so I still tolerate grinding for the sake of the greater enjoyment of the game.  Grinding, imho, is a completely unecessary "feature" or "symptom" (depending on which side of the fence you're on) of rpg's that betrays a fundamental flaw in game design.  I've played the entirety of the Balder's Gate series and a half-dozen other RPG's series in my many years of game playing.  My introduction to mind-numbing grinding was in EQ.  WOW isn't nearly as bad, but it's still a prominent symptom of poor game design.  Blizzard will never probably outrightly admit it, but the improvements they made in the last major patch directly addressed the difficulty of progressing through the mid-20's and beyond directly due to "not fun" hours and hours of grinding. Good job Blizzard- keep it up!

     "Another point I would like to make is in response not just to you, but to the others who "just hate grinding" and who despise the fact that the game rewards players who invest more time rather than the most skillful players. RPGs have always been about time and repetition. "

    What?  Since when?  Since when have RPG's ALWAYS been about time and repetition? What?!? Just because grinding has been a part of nearly every online and major MMORPG doesn't mean it's a feature of Role Playing Games as a genre... it's a symptom of poor game design that reveals lack of creativity and investment into the development of the game.

    But pleas people, stop complaining about how the game rewards people. It called an RPG for a reason!!

    Ummm... RPG stands for "Role Playing Game"... last I checked anyway.  I don't see any mention of "grinding" in the acronym... or any inference of it for that matter.  Role... Playing... Game... Maybe it should be a new genre ... a GPG... Grind Playing Game.

    Although I addressed grinding here, my original post and the topic of the thread is really about buying gold... so... well... hmmm... wait just a moment! <dramatic pause> I do suppose the two are related after a fashion. Buying gold does trump grinding for gold and drops for the AH.

    Very cool- yet another perfectly sound reason for buying gold- thanks Jedimario, you're truly a saint!

I applaud Blizzard for their stance against RMT but WoW is on its downfall already, and its the players fault. The game is so fucking screwed up now its silly. The dude above me a perfect example of everything that is wrong with RMT. All he see is his own enjoyment, not giving a shit in that he screw with the ingame economy and ruin alot of other players enjoyment of said game. When you see a mediocre endgame epic for sale at the ah for some 1.5-2.5k gold and check a little bit later and its SOLD!!! it says alot about that servers population. Nope, what would be the downfall of WoW is its players and the gold sellers. Legit players just cant raise that kinda $$$ for stuff ingame, and therefore almost are forced to buy gold thereby enhancing the circle, or leave the game. I left. Btw jasco20, you and people like you are one of the reasons I left WoW. So you see, you do indeed ruin other peoples enjoyment of a mmo acting like you do.

Personally I hope the gold buyers accounts get permabanned and ip banned, that blizzard, and every other developer block their creditcard never to be used to pay for an ingame account again, their real name, adress and all personal data be put on a blacklist by said company, shared with the other developers of mmo's and so on. Its an utopia but a man can dream cant he

 ...small edits for typos and stuff

Unfortunately..people like Jasco are too self-centered to see beyond the end of their own noses.  They truly don't know what fun is...therefore they pay someone else to do it for them.

People like Jasco will continue to ruin game economies, because they can..and like I said before..selfishness..."its all about me" is their motto....

What mystifies me, is why these people bother to buy the retail box, oh and pay the subscription each month..then they pay someone to powerlevel them...and get them all their toys.

So WHO was playing that game?  T'wasn't Jasco..newp...was some goldseller/powerleveler company robot.

So what was the purpose of that whole exercise...well I am not sure.    So that people like Jasco can run around in a fantasy world and pretend that they "earned" these things themselves..and brag to other players about it?   I suppose.

Personally...I would never risk my account or my credit card to these online game parasites....as Blizz stated..they steal people's identities, game accounts , rip them off and also steal their credit cards that they paid for gold with.

Nice.........

But hey there's a fool born every day...isn't there? :)

Cend

Blizzard is doing their best to stop this problem.  Of course, until they get caught they appear as normal subscribers like everyone else.  The report spam and 1 hour delay in mail system are ways to discourage and incovenience the gold farmers.

I wish Blizzard could impliment a global ignore like in CoX.  Instead of just ignoring a single name, which the farmer deletes probably after a few mins, global ignore works on the entire account.  That way doesn't matter how many toons you make, I'm ignoring your account entirely.

Too often I see people say "well the TOS doesn't actually say we can't do this", which is technically incorrect.  It uses standard legalese, so it's very wordy.  Basically you agree not to sell off their code or use it for any other purpose than to play the game.  Gold is code, pure and simple and buy selling it  you are violating the TOS.