World of Warcraft

I've seen a lot of comments here that WoW's end-game is lacking.  What I would like to know is in what regard?  If you have a played an MMO that you feel had a great end-game, then could you please summarize the end-game content of that game for me?  I haven't played a lot of MMO's, but I've played a few and to me it seems that WoW's end-game is easily on par with anything I have played, so I would like to know what I'm missing.

Here's your chance folks.  Convince me that WoW's end-game is lacking and that another games end-game is superior.  Make your examples specific and mention the game you are comparing WoW to.  Please no comparison's to games in development or vapor-ware or just what you think would be your dream game because frankly I don't consider that evidence that WoW's end-game is lacking.

Well there was game which had reputation based item system which forced people to do quests or play battlegrounds to gain new gear. It was called WoW before TBC.

I can give few examples: Crafting in EQ2 had system where you did stuff for other people so they could make stuff. It deepened relationship between players. SWG had even better system where high level cooks where very respected people. Crafting in WoW is too much simplified and has little meaning in end-game.

DAoC had some cool world pvp with towers and stuff, much better than Halaa pvp.

I still play WoW and do mostly end-game raiding but I feel that WoW is bit too boring in end game. It should offer more choices.

The problem isn't the end game.  WoW's easily far superior to anything else out there atm, and those who disagree probably have skewed opinion because they're ignoring a vital difference between WoW and other games.

And that is the somewhat problematic delay between WoW's expansions is far, far too long.   Face it, no matter how much variety of content there is you will tire of it eventually.  This is one area where other games, such as EQ2 can make the 'end game' seem more appealing, because that end game changes with all the expansions.

But lets face it, if we were stuck with one 'end game' before an expansion for two years before the next one, WoW would easily be the most compelling choice.  EQ2's end-game pre-DoF had almost negligble content compared to WoW.

WoW is easily the better game, review scores, sales figures, and subscription numbers, as well as word of mouth prove it.  However, over time it's appeal diminishes.  Come Wrath of the Lich king all will be good again.

TBH I strongly disagree, WotL might even make WoW less popular. Biggest problem with TBC, excluding it was badly late, was that there wasn't much new content. Many of the models was recycled and there was very little new under the skin. Worst was that Blizzard also made some choices that simplified stuff. Crafting is mostly based on Primals and Nethers, not in many materials which needed much more grinding. No more quests with epic rewards. Arena gear model were copied from T-items and many items looks too similiar. I been many times wondered what WoW developer team does because all I see is copies of models and very little new content.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Heroic mode Raids.

Make the current Raids "Normal" mode, make them easier, more accessable, and more forgiving, but drop the loot quality down a notch.

Create "Heroic" mode for the raids, and just like in heroic dungeons, they are more challenging and offer better reward.

This way, more people get access to the End-Game content, but the very best of the best, the most dedicated and skillful raiders still get the very best gear from the Heroic raids.

Stop making me play with 5, 10 or 25 other people just to play the PvE end game.  MMO does not equal forced grouping.  I can socialize just fine without hitting the same mob as you at the same time as you.

Stop making content that requires I be online 3+ nights a week at specified times for specified lengths of time.  One hour dungeons that are FUN.  What the elite call challenging is not fun to the masses.

Make all crafting skills useful by requiring materials that other crafters make.  Gee I can make a Ravager Dog, la dee da.

Give me something to do besides grind and PvP (if you call what Wow has PvP).  Character improvement is what keep people playing.  I hate to refer to EQ1 and AAs, but that's the closest thing I can think of.

I cancelled WoW with 2 accounts, 8 level 70s and 5 level 61 or higher characters.  I was bored to tears.

Originally posted by sonicsix

Stop making me play with 5, 10 or 25 other people just to play the PvE end game.  MMO does not equal forced grouping.  I can socialize just fine without hitting the same mob as you at the same time as you.

Stop making content that requires I be online 3+ nights a week at specified times for specified lengths of time.  One hour dungeons that are FUN.  What the elite call challenging is not fun to the masses.

Make all crafting skills useful by requiring materials that other crafters make.  Gee I can make a Ravager Dog, la dee da.

Give me something to do besides grind and PvP (if you call what Wow has PvP).  Character improvement is what keep people playing.  I hate to refer to EQ1 and AAs, but that's the closest thing I can think of.

I cancelled WoW with 2 accounts, 8 level 70s and 5 level 61 or higher characters.  I was bored to tears.

That is why alot of people stop playing sonic, myself included... also bored to tears. People rant onnnn and onnnn about how great wow is. It isn't wow so much that is the problem, it's the players, wow is on a HUGE treadmill with it's community. The 3 million or so that started wow, are now no longer playing or at the start of their "burnout" phase. That's cool tho because for the 3 million that burnt out got replaced by 3 more million players that are fresh to the game. Later this year 3 million from year two of WoW's release will burnout and quit and they will get replaced.

Much like the armor treadmill all wow players are on which is "end-game" meaning ever playing for that next set of Tier 100,000,000 armor. Speaking of which I don't consider Tier-numberwhatever to be any kinda good end-game.

WoW is a big circle, in game and out of game. Those who played for many years now, are starting to catch-on to the recycled "end-game" off wow, and are looking for fun elsewhere. All the new people coming in are gonna rant wow is god. At least they will scream that until it is their time to be recycled out.

WoW is a mess, bottom line.

Originally posted by Sasami

TBH I strongly disagree, WotL might even make WoW less popular. Biggest problem with TBC, excluding it was badly late, was that there wasn't much new content. Many of the models was recycled and there was very little new under the skin. Worst was that Blizzard also made some choices that simplified stuff. Crafting is mostly based on Primals and Nethers, not in many materials which needed much more grinding. No more quests with epic rewards. Arena gear model were copied from T-items and many items looks too similiar. I been many times wondered what WoW developer team does because all I see is copies of models and very little new content.

All MMOs are guilty of 'recycling' models with new content, even massive expansions.   I would not single this out as a fault for WoW, as there are technical and design reasons for doing this.   There are plenty of unique models, including all of the different flying mounts, regular mobs, boss mobs, etc etc. 

It sounds like this might be your first MMO because I can't think of another MMO which offered as many new models and graphics as WoW did.  Most MMOs just re-skin armor and stuff, the Everquest games are notorious for this - the armor in WoW has geometrically different shapes to before the expansion.

Your complaint doesn't hold much weight, especially when you look at how the other MMOs handle diversity.

Originally posted by neonaka

 

Originally posted by sonicsix

Stop making me play with 5, 10 or 25 other people just to play the PvE end game.  MMO does not equal forced grouping.  I can socialize just fine without hitting the same mob as you at the same time as you.

Stop making content that requires I be online 3+ nights a week at specified times for specified lengths of time.  One hour dungeons that are FUN.  What the elite call challenging is not fun to the masses.

Make all crafting skills useful by requiring materials that other crafters make.  Gee I can make a Ravager Dog, la dee da.

Give me something to do besides grind and PvP (if you call what Wow has PvP).  Character improvement is what keep people playing.  I hate to refer to EQ1 and AAs, but that's the closest thing I can think of.

I cancelled WoW with 2 accounts, 8 level 70s and 5 level 61 or higher characters.  I was bored to tears.

 

That is why alot of people stop playing sonic, myself included... also bored to tears. People rant onnnn and onnnn about how great wow is. It isn't wow so much that is the problem, it's the players, wow is on a HUGE treadmill with it's community. The 3 million or so that started wow, are now no longer playing or at the start of their "burnout" phase. That's cool tho because for the 3 million that burnt out got replaced by 3 more million players that are fresh to the game. Later this year 3 million from year two of WoW's release will burnout and quit and they will get replaced.

Much like the armor treadmill all wow players are on which is "end-game" meaning ever playing for that next set of Tier 100,000,000 armor. Speaking of which I don't consider Tier-numberwhatever to be any kinda good end-game.

WoW is a big circle, in game and out of game. Those who played for many years now, are starting to catch-on to the recycled "end-game" off wow, and are looking for fun elsewhere. All the new people coming in are gonna rant wow is god. At least they will scream that until it is their time to be recycled out.

WoW is a mess, bottom line.

Again this sounds like a complaint addressed at MMORPGs in general, rather than just WoW.  When you've explored all the lands, apart from the most difficult ones, and progressed to the highest levels, you're at the end game.

Welcome to the end game.  Would you care to explain how WoW is so bad for this, when other MMOs are worse for this?  Give us some examples of end-game content that blows WoW away, because it's either the same or worse.

In every MMO there is repetition, every single one.  Most games don't even bother to give solo content at the high level, at least WoW allows you to progress by yourself - in the battlegrounds, or just with one other person in the arena.

I think most people who are bitter at WoW's end game have been unfortunate not to be in a good guild (and by good, I mean by more than just how well geared everyone is).  The quality of the end game in WoW is dependant on your guild.   Fortunately there are far more guilds in WoW to choose from than in any other MMO, if you stick with it you will enjoy it eventually.

Or maybe you won't, but hey, WoW can't please EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL.  If you're unfortunate to be one of those, don't moan that everyone is going on about "how great WoW is", just accept that you can't fit into it and move on.

EG in WoW is a joke, raids are a joke, BT/Sunwell are a joke.

And the fact is BT/Sunwell is all the EG WoW has to offer, Kara is puggable now thanks to PvP EQ.

And PvP/Arena is not EG content, hell it's not even any kind of content, it's just a grind fest that takes no skill and favours a select few classes despite there being more then just druid/war/rogue in the game.

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