General Discussion

Originally posted by salvaje

 

Originally posted by CleffyII

There are mmos designed for women, most of which have done badly.  The Sims Online, All those dancing ones, as well as the casual type games were you earn money to play dress up.  Also like I said earlier, the proportion of male-female in the Game Industry is really closer to even then the actual amount of male-female gamers.

 

SWG Pre-CU actually had a LOT of women play it.  Why?  Because they could have prominent roles and NOT have to go into combat.  They could be creative.  They could fiddle with designs of clothing and colors.  They could dance and entertain.   They could mix all that WITH combat and still be effective.

Ironically, it was the "female friendly" parts of SWG that were crippled by the CU and then eradicated by the NGE.

Frankly, I don't think women want games targeted at women any more than I want a game made to target men.  I think they, like me, just want GOOD games.  Which SOE, and most of the rest of the industry aren't producing right now.

 

My point exactly.  Look at SWG pre-CU and you'd see a great game, a huge sand-box game that us females could really get into.   It was about the clothes, the houses, the dancing, designing and creating and I loved it.   I wish we would see a game like that again, but I do not think we will - atleast not in the for seeable future.   I miss playing SWG and it is to bad SOE didn't just fix what they had instead of trying to re-create what was not broken.   SWG is not even a 10th of the game it use to be.   ::sighs::

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by salvaje

 

Originally posted by CleffyII

There are mmos designed for women, most of which have done badly.  The Sims Online, All those dancing ones, as well as the casual type games were you earn money to play dress up.  Also like I said earlier, the proportion of male-female in the Game Industry is really closer to even then the actual amount of male-female gamers.

 

SWG Pre-CU actually had a LOT of women play it.  Why?  Because they could have prominent roles and NOT have to go into combat.  They could be creative.  They could fiddle with designs of clothing and colors.  They could dance and entertain.   They could mix all that WITH combat and still be effective.

Ironically, it was the "female friendly" parts of SWG that were crippled by the CU and then eradicated by the NGE.

Frankly, I don't think women want games targeted at women any more than I want a game made to target men.  I think they, like me, just want GOOD games.  Which SOE, and most of the rest of the industry aren't producing right now.

 

My point exactly.  Look at SWG pre-CU and you'd see a great game, a huge sand-box game that us females could really get into.   It was about the clothes, the houses, the dancing, designing and creating and I loved it.   I wish we would see a game like that again, but I do not think we will - atleast not in the for seeable future.   I miss playing SWG and it is to bad SOE didn't just fix what they had instead of trying to re-create what was not broken.   SWG is not even a 10th of the game it use to be.   ::sighs::

I'm trying to figure out this 'us females could really get into" personally I hated most of those things.  I mean designing a cool house was neat but it wasn't something that would make me want to play a game.   I'm not into playing seamstress, cook, house or dancing whore.   I like playing adventurer and hero.  Guide and dangerous excitement finder.   And if someone screws with me...I enjoy being able to wait for them to become PvPable so I can polish them off.  I know I'm not the only girl gamer that has similiar thoughts.

I knew plenty of SWG guys that loved SWG for all the customization and they were anything but feminine in any way shape or form.  Infact most of the criers over the loss of SWG and all its customization goodness are male players.

Thats the thing about us females...we're extremely versitale in the things we like and squeezing us into a box is like rewinding time to when we were stuck in country houses birthing babies.  Game Designers have a hard time shoving us into a box that fits because we all like different things. 

Personally I think you just stereotyped our own gender..seriously..if you think games like SWG are getting killed because of male influence your really wrong.   Maybe im just missreading the intent of your post so if I am I appologize :)

SWG was killed because of idiot corporate folks *coughs Lucas Arts* thought copying WoW with a game thats already got a population was a good idea.  Thats bad business and bad design and has nothing to do with sexual preference.

personally I like non sandbox games better...I just dont like them to be super simpliton WoW games either.  I'm more of the EQ1, DAoC type.  I like a little freedom in my path but I like to know there's something to do that I dont have to spend tons of hours creating for myself.  I just dont have the hours in the day to be satisfied with what I'd be able to accomplish in a single game session in a sandbox game. Sand box games are great for people with time..or atleast patience..something..I lack at times.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Im getting tired of Being a White Middle aged male....

  Agree wholeheartedly.  Check out the subsections under the "People" tab at Obama's website.  He has several racial groups listed, but not "White" or "Caucasion" and he has a "Women" section but not Men.

The solution is simple. If some of you "men" are so up in arms about being excluded and how you fear in the future of the game industry, that those regardless of gender and having talent not be passed up. Well here is what you can do. There is enough of you here to get together and donate about $200 to $500 and create a fund of $10k. Then you all form a group among yourselves, have a meeting and go over applicants. After that you chose the one you think is most qualified and you solve your own problem. Put your money and ideas where your mouth is and can do the most good because talking won't get you anywhere. So if you believe in what you say then get out there and do something about it and change the world.

Who would have known, that one girl could have such a huge impact on the whole gaming industry, that a puny $10k and an internship would so radically alter the way of life for the entire world?

/sarcasm

10k is a drop in the bucket and note that they did not specify how long that internship was going to last. Might be 1 semester. Might be 4 years. They might hire her if gosh, she was actually an asset and could bring something to the company. Or they  might just discretely drop her like a rock and not actually hire her at all after she finishes school, leaving her with still tons of debt.

Seriously... get over it. 

They are not bound by law in this situation.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Can America's businesses finally move past race and gender?  This gender-based scholarship might have sounded progressive back in 1968, but this is 2008, People.

How about a scholarship for the most promising student, regardless of race or gender?

 

 

I"m a white male, and the mewiling of my peers about how they're being "discriinated against" because they don't get first crack at everything sickens me.

SOE is looking to get some new perspectives.  Good for them.

Most scholarships have a basic qualification based on need of the individual.   But guess what, even scholarships based on need are discriminatory since it favors the poorer class instead of the upper class.  For a truly non-discriminatory scholarship (or application) it would be based solely on talent.

But guess what? That means those born of wealth are going to get the higher percentage of scholarships,  better jobs, etc. I know this from experience. I'm in a highly competitive field along with three friends who come from wealthy families.  We all graduated from a University that is #1 in this field. The problem: while we all search for work in this competitive field, my three friends are being subsidized by their respective families. They don't have to get a regular job to pay for rent or food until an opportunity arises. As for me, well a job at some burger joint isn't out of the question in the near future as the savings I have evaporates. I got into this university based on pure talent, only to see my future eroded away by my financial reality. But I do fight on nonetheless.

So those of you bemoaning 'equality', or some idealistic notion of it should realize that it never exists, and never will. The only question is whether you will allow yourself to become a victim. The moment you convince yourself you're a victim, then you're lost.

Wow. This thread shows exactly why there are fewer women in the game industry. The kinds of things some of you people said, the hostility - it's unnecessary. Few of you are female, and therefor you do not know the barriers that exist for women. You don't. Just because your friend's sister says it's easy doesn't mean it's true.

I have been taking computer courses since 2002, and I've been the only girl in a room of 40 guys. I've been the butt of jokes, rude suggestions.. But I'm a good programmer, and a good computer scientist, and at the end of the day it's not because I'm female. However, being female adds stress. I have to worry about my appearance more because I'm stared at constantly. Do you know what that's like? Have you ever had a stalker? It's actually not fun to have to worry that you're being followed when you're walking home after class.

Look at some of the replies in this thread. Boobs, swimsuit competition. Is this the 1940s? It's a boys' club, and *that* is the biggest reason why girls have a hard time in this field.  When I first began programming a MUD in the late 1990s, I was just a kid... about 14 years old. I asked for help with some programming, and I signed my name, which is an obvious girl's name. I got a half dozen vicious replies, one of which told me to "stop programming and go polish my a******." I remember those words so clearly. Very cold, hateful. I just wanted to learn how to add in new races.

Then consider the baggage with being female in a public school. In primary school, they really do encourage girls to do creative things like art vs. science or math. It's very common for a math teacher to simply avoid challenging girls. Is it the 10 year old girl's fault? No, it's not. Sure, she might overcome that, but she's starting at a disadvantage. As a guy, you may not have ever noticed. That's the real discrimination - the insidious discrimination that the majority never notices. For me, I went on to get two advanced degrees in science fields. But women were still less than 30% of my graduating class. I ended up getting a free ride to grad school not on the basis of my gender or anything else, but because of my work. But it was hard, and I have to post-pone marriage for a bit, and definitely children until probably my late 30s.

Guys don't have to worry about that as much. Sure, they have to worry about things - everyone does. But rarely do you get treated the way some of these boys are talking on this thread. It's a shame, and truly the first page or two are just embarrassing and only prove the point that this scholarship is needed.