Originally posted by fingis

I played Vanguard for a month back when it came out.

The most memorable thing about VG is the bugs.

People started leaving the game in droves.  In an effort to stir up some interest, the devs implementing flying mount rentals.

I told a fellow guildy as we watched someone take off, 'no way in hell i'm getting on that death trap.'

Sure enough the early adopter hit a chunk line and fell to his death.  He was so high up that it took him a minute to hit the ground.  Negative xps.

When they opened up the rift gates, the gates would teleport you well enough, but occasionally teleport you to a spot hundreds of yards up in the air.  Negative xps.

 

The model of release with bugs and use early revenues to fix them is no longer viable.  To get high subscription yield, you now need high front end development investment.  The early pioneer days are gone. 

SOE is clinging to "Wright Brother" standards for MMO games.  People expect airplanes to fly all the time now.  Flying periodically for a half a minute just isn't good enough any longer.  It's the same kind of thing with this game genre.  Until SOE wakes up to this new reality, they're going to struggle and wonder why.

Originally posted by Buccaneer

 

 

Originally posted by Antarious

 

Originally posted by Buccaneer

Just a heads up to some of the old VG players, or people who are fed-up how MMO's have got easier over the years.

The lead dev Silius has started a poll on the offical boards regarding how many people would play VG like it was at launch.  I've posted the links below.

 

Didn't they have this poll already?

most people voted no.. which is why we have 4 servers now..

I'd also like to know what they "nerfed" to make the game easier.

I hit 50 in VG at launch faster than I hit "end game" in WoW... you mean it got easier?  I go back now and then to play but since I am not grinding levels.. I guess I don't notice.

 

 

I think the poll you mentioned was for the RP server just before the merge.

Since launch SOE and Sigil started the ball rolling, we have lost or gained. 

What I was referring to.. was... launching the game period.

The original ruleset (bugs or not) was what the game launched with.  So basicly every time a "cancel" button was pushed.. it was a "no" vote.

I also guess I could admit I played a cleric at launch.. but mostly because my guild only had a blood mage as a healer .. other than me.  There wasn't much in the first few months I couldn't solo to be honest.

Healing mobs could be a pain... I remember fighting this one named healing mob while solo.  About 45 minutes in we're both 100% health and power.. so I decided to just run off.

I don't think a "hard core" ruleset changes VG for *me*.  What I like about the game to be honest is the classes.  They feel a lot less nerfed than EQ2 classes (at least for me).

As you level up in Vanguard you in general do feel as tho your character is more powerful.. where in EQ2 that's not always the case.

The big issue I had was the bugs, lack of polish and so many things left unfinished.  Really to many things were left in or not done than you could list.  Which after time passes you begin to learn what was going on at sigil more of why Microsoft dropped them... but anyway..

I never asked for more xp.. less death penalty.. but what I really wanted was the bugs fixed and the game finished.

It took them what.. over a year to maybe add helms?

And someone is going to ask if I want a new rule set server?

Sounds a tad off... Did they ever get tails in?  All the cats and such with no tails.. really bothered me too.

Looks like it's over at the offical VG forums. They have closed the poll.

Silius wrote:
 

I must regret that I am closing this thread. I made the mistake of trying to engage the community on a controversial topic without considering what the fallout would be in game. This post was simply a question, a curiosity as to where this issue would stand if we were able to do it and it has turned into a major CS issue.

My goal with this was not to have people harassing others in game ruining their gameplay, or the petition queue to be flooded with requests for the ruleset and such other things.

To everyone I must apologize. I thought that I was clear when I stated that

1. This is in no way a promise to act on this suggestion.
2. Regardless of the outcome our current focus and plan for the year will always have a higher priority if something like this were to get started.

Our current direction is paramount to anything else and we will not allow anything outside of that to slow it down unless there is just cause to.  Once again I apologize for engaging you on such a serious topic without considering all the angles or repercussions. You have shown how passionate you are about Vanguard on both sides and in the future I will make it a point to go about this in a more professional and official capacity. Once again I apologize to you all.

It was a good turn out the poll got 383 /signed posts in the day that it was open. I can imagine the forums (offical VG forums) are going to get a bit hot over the next few days.

Wow. That was fast. I assumed the poll would stay up for a week before they closed it.

It will definitely be interesting to watch the VG forums over the next few days.

Originally posted by Lidane

Wow. That was fast. I assumed the poll would stay up for a week before they closed it.

It will definitely be interesting to watch the VG forums over the next few days.

I've got a feeling a lot of the people who did not want to see this type of server were the ones kicking up the stink, which got the thread closed.  Yesterday they got there hands slapped for sending the devs insulting PM's.

Silius wrote:

It is kind of ironic that the only time I get a series of insulting PMs is when I engage the community that historically has been angry with me. Those of you freaking out because I am asking the community a question need to stop now. When I engage you on issues that are not considered hard core I do not get a bunch of negative PMs from those who may be opposed to it.

If you have read my posts about this issue today you would see that this is far from being a reality. If you have an issue you need to post it publicly, instead of claming I am splitting the population or that I need to look at monks. If you have a gripe post it publicly like everyone else does.

People whine for a hardcore server when they hate the GU4, just like NGE and pre-NGE servers fo SWG.

When the Hardcore server is live, whiners will still whine for more because the hpye for Hardcore server is going offboard and no official ruleset is yet to be released.

I love the idea but they should use the resource on something else in VG.

Originally posted by Buccaneer

 
I've got a feeling a lot of the people who did not want to see this type of server were the ones kicking up the stink, which got the thread closed.  Yesterday they got there hands slapped for sending the devs insulting PM's.

I have no idea who kicked what up. To be perfectly honest, I haven't played VG in almost a year, and have no real opinion on the game anymore because of that. I just follow the boards from time to time to see how things are developing.

I suspect, however, that the fallout from this debacle will do a whole lot more to divide the playerbase than any changes that SOE could ever make, or that they have made since VG's launch. A poll being offered to measure interest in a "hardcore" server being shut down after a day due to people spamming the /petition queue with requests for info on the ruleset, and to complain about people harassing them about the poll while they're trying to play? And all that on top of rude/insulting PM's being sent to the devs?

This won't end well. Not at all.

Originally posted by Lidane

 

Originally posted by Buccaneer

 
I've got a feeling a lot of the people who did not want to see this type of server were the ones kicking up the stink, which got the thread closed.  Yesterday they got there hands slapped for sending the devs insulting PM's.

 

I have no idea who kicked what up. To be perfectly honest, I haven't played VG in almost a year, and have no real opinion on the game anymore because of that. I just follow the boards from time to time to see how things are developing.

I suspect, however, that the fallout from this debacle will do a whole lot more to divide the playerbase than any changes that SOE could ever make, or that they have made since VG's launch. A poll being offered to measure interest in a "hardcore" server being shut down after a day due to people spamming the /petition queue with requests for info on the ruleset, and to complain about people harassing them about the poll while they're trying to play? And all that on top of rude/insulting PM's being sent to the devs?

This won't end well. Not at all.

I saw that the other day, I find it very strange that simply asking / polling for simple interest provoke such a strong reaction from the community.

I would think if anything a message was sent that maybe they should tone down some of the changes that have been making to the existing game mechanics. People originally became interested in VG because it promised to be different from EQII and WoW, now that they are closing that gap and VG slowly morphs into WoW in VG cloths, the player base is getting hostile....and its not doing a damn thing to help subs.

When will devs figure out that making their games MORE like WoW is NOT going to draw players. People who like that, stay with WoW. Its some sort of mutation of an MMO, it keeps growing and growing...sucking up more and more players. Why would a WoW / casual player want to play something like VG? Its unfinished, much higher system requirements, lower pops and unclear goals?

They should just stick with making a virtual world and stop tampering with the ruleset. I said that about SWG years ago however, then they dropped that NGE bomb. They never learn. The promise of the original ruleset is what brought the almost 200k players when the game first launched....it was the technical issues that drove them all away, not the ruleset.

EDIT

Personally IMHO, I think they should re-add that racial PvP server with some castles to siege or territoty to control, stop messing with the core ruleset and fix performace issues.

What I think is clear from what happened in game following this and what happened online is that the VG community is very split about what they want.  There is one camp that wants VG to be hard core, probably even harder core then it was at launch. 

Yet there is another camp that doesn't want it hard core but likes the current gameplay and just wants development focussed on adding content and polish. 

I think having a special hard core server would be a good thing.  A lot of people came to VG expecting a hard core game so their is almost certainly a niche looking for one.  Lord knows there are no other hard core games in the vein of eq out there.

They should fix their blatantly bad frame rates, numerous bugs (still), and try and finish their original concept of the game before messing with servers.

Sounds desparate.

If you want a true Hardcore VG server, have a server reset to the same function, playability and playstyle as when it was released.

Now that my friends is Hardcore

Originally posted by altairzq

They nerfed it already?

Everytime I think I'm disapppointed with a change like an easier leveling curse it turned out not to be such a bad thing.  I need to remind myself, I'm 38 and have a family and a challenging job and I could probably never play a 'hardcore' game again.  And it the end, VG is still very challenging compared to most MMOs.  For example, I'm leveling a new Blood Mage right now and it ain't easy... death comes easily if I'm not careful, I need to figure out most of the quests from the dialogue etc.  So even though they've made some things easier, VG is still a LONG way from becoming a LotRO or Wow.

Originally posted by andmiller

They should fix their blatantly bad frame rates, numerous bugs (still), and try and finish their original concept of the game before messing with servers.

 

Sounds desparate.

Yes, still some annoying bugs.  But honestly, there is virtually nobody complaining about performance anymore.  They've made amazing improvements here.

Originally posted by andmiller

They should fix their blatantly bad frame rates, numerous bugs (still), and try and finish their original concept of the game before messing with servers.

 

Sounds desparate.

Yep you are. Next time read on what you are trolling about.

Originally posted by Buccaneer

 

Originally posted by Lidane

Wow. That was fast. I assumed the poll would stay up for a week before they closed it.

It will definitely be interesting to watch the VG forums over the next few days.

I've got a feeling a lot of the people who did not want to see this type of server were the ones kicking up the stink, which got the thread closed.  Yesterday they got there hands slapped for sending the devs insulting PM's.

 

Silius wrote:

 

 

It is kind of ironic that the only time I get a series of insulting PMs is when I engage the community that historically has been angry with me. Those of you freaking out because I am asking the community a question need to stop now. When I engage you on issues that are not considered hard core I do not get a bunch of negative PMs from those who may be opposed to it.

If you have read my posts about this issue today you would see that this is far from being a reality. If you have an issue you need to post it publicly, instead of claming I am splitting the population or that I need to look at monks. If you have a gripe post it publicly like everyone else does.

Anytime devs try to take the pulse of the playing community as they consider the future direction of the game, particularly regarding major decisions, they have my respect and support.  Kudos for asking the question.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Anytime devs try to take the pulse of the playing community as they consider the future direction of the game, particularly regarding major decisions, they have my respect and support.  Kudos for asking the question.

My only problem with this example in particular is I think he was expecting a certain response (or lack of responses) and was totally unprepared to see so many people show interest. I think it was a pretty good hint when in one of Silius' earlier posts he said he already knew what the majority would say and was just trying to get a sense of how many may be intersted in a seperate ruleset server.

I bet he chuckled to himself posting the poll thinking that only 50 people would respond and the community would be behind him all the way.

Regardless, it's never gonna happen.

Originally posted by DailyBuzz

 

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Anytime devs try to take the pulse of the playing community as they consider the future direction of the game, particularly regarding major decisions, they have my respect and support.  Kudos for asking the question.

I have to agree. I truly appreciate when a dev takes the time to consult the players opinions about real issues concerning the games they both invest so much into.

 

My only problem with this example in particular is I think he was expecting a certain response (or lack of responses) and was totally unprepared to see so many people show interest. I think it was a pretty good hint when in one of Silius' earlier posts he said he already knew what the majority would say and was just trying to get a sense of how many may be intersted in a seperate ruleset server.

I bet he chuckled to himself posting the poll thinking that only 50 people would respond and the community would be behind him all the way.

Regardless, it's never gonna happen.

This was what he said:

"Look the reason I ask for people to only post if they want it is because I know what the majority is. This is not about which side is the community on, it is about seeing just how many people would be interested.

There is no need for an opposing vote because there is nothing to oppose. I do not joke when I say my priority is on the current game and moving forward. I am a person who intends to see things through and as I stated earlier if this became a reality at all it would only be if I could afford to lose the resources for a short amount of time.

I am curious to see the results. If it appears to have legs then I will explore it as it is only fair for me to do so."

You said he knew what the majority would say, he stated he knew what the majority is. He knows the actual numbers of subscribers and I assume also the actual number of (unique) forum hits.

Noteworthy are "This is not about which side is the community on, it is about seeing just how many people would be interested." and "I am curious to see the results. If it appears to have legs then I will explore it as it is only fair for me to do so." He was interested in seeing how many people was interested.

To bad some asshats, pardon, are intolerant.

Originally posted by boojiboy

 

Originally posted by andmiller

They should fix their blatantly bad frame rates, numerous bugs (still), and try and finish their original concept of the game before messing with servers.

 

Sounds desparate.

 

Yes, still some annoying bugs.  But honestly, there is virtually nobody complaining about performance anymore.  They've made amazing improvements here.

Not to mention I was trying to PvP around Renton Keep and having the game lock for 20+ sec and then unlock with me dead was just to hardcore for me.  I shouldn't be able to tell when someone enters the same chunck i'm in, and the game shouldn't go spastic on my when I come across 2 or more other players.  Dont' take this as a complaining, just wanted to point out that just because there aren't as many posts about performance doesn't mean there isn't an issue.  Quite the contrary, there's a big problem with the performance still.

Aside from that the only bug I keep coming across is the one that refuses to save some of my interface settings, or options.

I'm really wondering if your performance problems aren't related to the server you are on or your pc in some way... Reason I say that is I never have the kinds of problems you describe.  Maybe my system is just uber to the point of making all issues non issues...

Recently I've been playing mostly on the test server or on saradon.  For the last several nights I've been on test quite a lot.  Now there aren't many people there but I really don't see any effect from having people in the game.  On saradon I was doing some crafting last week and there were maybe 5-10 people in the area and I wasn't having any lag or anything.  Other then the first few minutes when I was in the area I had a few fits of hitchiness while the caches updated but after that I ran around doing my crafting for maybe an hour without any issues at all..

Now my system is a quad core, with 4g ram and an 8800gtx so definitely high end.  I am playing with most every setting maxed out and a view distance that is maybe 30% of the slider.  Honestly I have more graphics performance issues in EQ2 now days then I do in VG and the graphics in VG are extremely nice compared to eq2...

Originally posted by Urdig

 

Originally posted by boojiboy

 

Originally posted by andmiller

They should fix their blatantly bad frame rates, numerous bugs (still), and try and finish their original concept of the game before messing with servers.

 

Sounds desparate.

 

Yes, still some annoying bugs.  But honestly, there is virtually nobody complaining about performance anymore.  They've made amazing improvements here.

I logged off last night because the performance was giving me a head ache.

 

Not to mention I was trying to PvP around Renton Keep and having the game lock for 20+ sec and then unlock with me dead was just to hardcore for me.  I shouldn't be able to tell when someone enters the same chunck i'm in, and the game shouldn't go spastic on my when I come across 2 or more other players.  Dont' take this as a complaining, just wanted to point out that just because there aren't as many posts about performance doesn't mean there isn't an issue.  Quite the contrary, there's a big problem with the performance still.

Aside from that the only bug I keep coming across is the one that refuses to save some of my interface settings, or options.

 

My advice would be to make an alt on one of the other servers, if you still got a problem, you know it's your system is to blame.