General Discussion

Originally posted by Vincenz

 

Originally posted by Nadia

 

Originally posted by Ita+Chups

 I don't even see guild wars in the chart.

www.mmogchart.com/faq/

 

1. Why isn’t <MMOG_NAME> listed?

b) The game in question is free and/or doesn’t charge a regular monthly fee.

 

LOL, although really, that's kind of B.S. because he could guess for a free game as well as he guesses for a paid game.

Games without a subscription fee are very difficult to compare to games with a subscription fee because the markets are quite different.  If you knew how many of those free accounts were actually *active* in a given month, that might make for some basis of comparison, but most companies are unwilling to give out that data.  Getting numbers for subscriptions is difficult enough!

For games that have both a free and a premium monthly component, I track only the premium monthly subscribers (RuneScape, Dofus, Second Life, etc.).

Bruce

Originally posted by Dreamagram

 

Originally posted by Vincenz

 

Originally posted by Dreamagram

  I think they're good enough.

 

This is the part that kills me...

 

good enough for what exactly???

Good enough for giving a rough overview of the spread of MMO players, whether subscriber or micro-payment based. I'd love to see numbers for e.g. Guild Wars too though.

As of December 2007, Guild Wars had 4,878,000 activated accounts to date.  How many of those are actually active. though, NCSoft doesn't report.  In any case, I don't consider games like Guild Wars or Hellgate: London (which has a subscription fee), to be MMOGs.  They don't have a persistant state world, and they generally don't have hundreds or thousands of people in one at once; just lots of instances.  It's a subtle point, though.  They are certainly important to the market but I don't think they are directly part of the market.

Bruce

Originally posted by Vincenz

 

 

I'm disputing the numbers, because by his own admission most of them are simply guesses.

This is a lie.  By my own admission, the vast majority of numbers I report are not guesses.

http://www.mmogchart.com/faq/

Bruce

Originally posted by Zorvan

No, we just recognize a turd when we see one, and MMOGchart is one. Again, the only time that site is correct is when it has info already published in other public places. If the numbers aren't posted officially, the dude has no clue and puts whatever number he thinks is right at that moment. I'd get better info from a broken Magic 8 Ball.

This is a lie.  Some numbers I get are official, straight from the company, but aren't posted officially in a press release or on a website anywhere.  Other times, they come from inside sources that know the numbers but wish their identities to remain concealed; every reporter deals with this kind of information every day.  And sometimes, while a number isn't given exactly, it can be inferred from other public statements; e.g. "we have more than X game but less than Y game and we sold Z boxes." 

I don't make up numbers and put whatever I think is right at the moment.  If I did, I'd put out an update for every MMOG every month and charge $25,000 for it.

Bruce

Originally posted by Vincenz

 

Originally posted by Loky

I thought Eve would have had a bigger Subscription base...

 

You don't need a chart to tell you how many subscribers EVE has.  They announced in January they hit 220,000.

 

Google works as well as this guy's website.

For most of the numbers, though, yes you can google them to find the source.  If you can't find it, it was probably from an inside source or a document google doesn't index (newspaper articles, SEC documents, etc.)

Bruce

SirBruce, I think you should calm down. These types of arguments happen quite often in MMORPG.com - I'm sure you know it's not good for industry members to get caught up in them.

Unlike you, I don't dare disclose all of my gathered information and generated data - I have less credibility, but will probably also see a lot of criticism to my work, then get fired by my MMO company!

First off, Sir Bruce's numbers are as accurate as you can be and relative to each other, so if one title is off a bit, it is still accurate in relation to other titles.

EvE Online has good steady growth and now has more subscribers than any single SOE game. That is amazing and really shows how much SOE sucks at making MMOGs.

Originally posted by curiindi

SirBruce, I think you should calm down. These types of arguments happen quite often in MMORPG.com - I'm sure you know it's not good for industry members to get caught up in them.

Unlike you, I don't dare disclose all of my gathered information and generated data - I have less credibility, but will probably also see a lot of criticism to my work, then get fired by my MMO company!

Yeah I didn't realize I had posted like 7 times in a row until I got to the end. :P

Of course, I don't disclose information given to me in confidence.  Only data that sources want me to re-report (but remain anonymous).  I don't want any employee to get fired over telling me something they shouldn't. :)  However, I should note that California has protection laws for journalists and bloggers so I can't be forced to reveal your identity if you do give me inside numbers for your MMO company. :)

Bruce

PS - Use gmail or an anonymous email, though, so it can't be traced.

Originally posted by Scottc

I find it interesting that LOTRO has the exact same game mechanics as WoW and plays just the same, and yet Eve online has a bigger population than it.

i dont like either of the game soooo

Originally posted by SirBruce

 

 

Of course, I don't disclose information given to me in confidence.  Only data that sources want me to re-report (but remain anonymous).  I don't want any employee to get fired over telling me something they shouldn't. :)  However, I should note that California has protection laws for journalists and bloggers so I can't be forced to reveal your identity if you do give me inside numbers for your MMO company. :)

Bruce

PS - Use gmail or an anonymous email, though, so it can't be traced.

 

LOL!  I think this pretty much says it all.

Good luck with your whole "darts at a dart board" method of calculating subscriber numbers there Bruce.   Seems like you have a few people foolish enough to believe.

You make sure to keep those anonymous sources safe through g-mail there Woodward...or is it Bernstein.