Originally posted by Dobry

sadeyx,

I'm not sure what mmo doesn't involve "shooting", or constant clicking... unless you are looking for a more crafting/economic-based game.  That's the nature of mmo's, lots of clicking...

You misunderstand, alow me to clarify.

There is a difference between hundreds of single clicks than keeping your finger pressed on the mouse key and occasionally letting go!

Also, in games like wow there is a great deal more keyboard key pressing, you are not required to keep your hand tightly gripped on the mouse (to aim) at the same time as keeping a click held pressed for lengthy amounts of time. at the same time as manouvering the mouse accuratly. 

This constant strain on your hand is what I refer to as the 'shooting'  Even on an FPS which requires a dexterity and hand eye coordination you are rarly in a situation where you are also constantly keeping pressure on your finger.

This is how TR differs, on most mmo's ive played you can operate perfectly well while not even having to use the mouse, TR forces you to use it.. and use it excesivly, which is monotonous and boring. (eventually)

Originally posted by Dobry

I think it's highly misleading, and outright wrong, to say that TR is only a "point-and-click" game.  It's not, not by a longshot.  In comparison, I think WoW for example  is a much easier game, gameplay-wise, than TR is on some missions.

Your correct, it is wrong, since it isnt a 'point and click' if it were as simple as that it wouldnt be as bad at all.

I dont see how you feel its 'easier'  than wow, cmon man, give the game SOME credit!  Wow is for kids..wow is essentially the easiest game I ever played (for 14 days) no skill is required in Wow, and thats why its so bloody popular! its just timing.  Tabula rasa at least has aiming!

Originally posted by Roadshow

The problem is not the auto function, but the complete lack of skills, or rather the lack of any need to use them.

You didn't try playing as an engineer or even a biotech then. No escaping from skill use there. This isn't a flaw in the game, it's you not liking it.

I disagree, I did like it.  and yes I didnt play a bio tech simply because it got tedious before then.

See my comments above about shooting.  Your right, there is nothing 'wrong' with shooting, but in Battlefield there is way more! that 'just shooting'  Every single class kinda MUST have its basic shooting skill maxed.  Its un avoidable.  so its more a lack of variety within EVERY class, not just one class.

The things which make each class different dont make the class unique, and since you have to keep all your skill points and grind away to level 30 before you can pick your third class tree.. and then grind hiedously more.. its just... grinding... and shooting constantly.  There is no break from it..

Anyway, This isnt a debate about the game and your arguments mean nothing in light of the fact that is IS failing! and as much as you may like it you will soon move on since there just wont be enough people playing it, there wont be content updates as much, things wont get fixed as quickly, customer service is slow... 

All these things which stopped me from playing vanguard!  Again, another brilliant game.. let down by its population and other troubles.

Simple - thats the word i use to discribe TR from day 1 in the beta we testers was saying that the game has hardly any content and the character devolopment was too simple which produced clones. The devs promised more content better quests better character system and never produced that. TR was a great concept let down by try to make the game too simple and trying to stay away from the standard MMO feactures but not offering alternatives to the feactures they stayed clear off. I remember a poll on the ncsoft beta forums that asked how long TR would last until it gets canned 1 year was the general thought. Earthrise is going to kill TR when that hits the shops.

Originally posted by sadeyx

I disagree, I did like it.  and yes I didnt play a bio tech simply because it got tedious before then.

Originally posted by _Shadowmage

 

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In 2001, NcSoft bought TR for $33.4 million

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Is that not the cost of buying Destination Games - and the money paid to the Garriott brothers?

Personally I wouldnt count that as a TR development cost as the game had barely begun development in 2001.

The full expense for bringing TR to the market, as well as to maintain operations until out of the red, is great (I'm siding around $75 million), which I think makes this title the most expensive MMO Title to be released.

So using your accounting method - EA bought Pandemic & bioware for $620 million.

So when Bioware releases their mmorpg its development cost would be around $340 million.

Which would be the case, however; Bioware has more assets which dilutes that expense onto other fields, projects and IP's.  Such an expense is not carried completely over onto just the new MMO in the works.

Whereas with Garrot's company, his company only had one project and the assets were dedicated to that project.

Try again.

I would just like to point ou a few things.

1) Yes most journalism/journalists have an agenda to their article. Journalism although in principle is about objectivity, but in reality its never objective. Journalism is not a science nor is it  an art, its the politics of the public. However although journlists do tend to some form of bias and push some sort of agenda, they still do a more credible job than official press releases. Most published articles require some form of fact checking and some form of research. The so called 'inflammatory ' writer in order to get his article published had to at least do some digging and come to a conclusions from the research. If you read the offical press reply from NCSoft they didn't condem the writer for providing the 'wrong' facts but instead critisize the writer for his 'anti NCSOFT' tone. The key here is never trust 100% the 'official press' , especially when it deals with a mega corporation and a financially sensative product of own. So when a corporation says 'disappointed', the word 'disaster' is probably closer to the truth.

2) TR is fun to play in the short term but fails miserably as a mega-budget MMORPG. Where ithe game really failed was that TR was trying to be everything for everyone. TR wanted to be your UO, your WoW, your UT, your Auto Assault, your Team Fortress, but in the end it failed on all accounts. It lacks the depth of lore your classic fantasy MMO, it also lacks  the freedom of a Sandbox game, nor is it full of action like your FPS games, and probably most importantly TR lacks that 'fun' appeal that has made WoW so successful across the world. Put it simply TR has no 'hook' to it.

3) TR has no 'real' content. The only content TR has is a semi-interesting but very linear storyline and a series to quests to get a player through it. It's plays out exactly like a single player 3rd person shooter. In fact the only 'MMO' aspect of it is that it just happens other people are playing through the same storyline as you at the same time.
There's no player-driven economy, no character development, no crafting system, no guild system, no factional conflicts, no pvp, no end-game, it dosnt even have dungeons to raid. The only content TR has right now is a stretched out PvE game where you pay $15 a month to fight against badly scripted AI.

4) NCSoft was hoping to use TR as the starting point to launch itself into the sci-fi MMO market in the West, but it turned out to be a huge financial gamble that failed miserably. I remember a few months ago it was leaked that the NCSoft board were not at all impressed with the performance of Richard Garriot and the TR project and wanted to cut down investment, but the executive gave Mr. Garriot his full backing, it seems now that the financial results have vindicated the board. In further evidence, not only is NCSoft downsizing its headquarters in Austin, it has also announced the cancellation one of its other proposed sci-fi MMO projects Blackstar. It seems that the huge disaster that TR has proved to be has caused NCSoft to re-assess its market strategies and move away from the sci-fi genre and distancing itself from further developments in TR. 

Well said.

Just a note about the UI comments. You can change the UI from FPS/MMO style if you want. Ive studied and applied UID (User Interface Design) for 20 years in the game industry. I can tell you it is very logical to click the index finger to fire your weapon in the game. Think about it hard enough and you can probably figure out why that is. It has something to do with your "trigger finger."

As far as I can see most of the information I am reading here is completly wrong about the game. Please, if you want to know something about a game, experience it for yourself, and take the time while you are doing that to really learn the game. First impressions are rarely accurate. I make a habbit to not comment on a game unless I've spanned the entire level range. I often find that what I would have said sooner would have been much different. It also gives me the time to find the thing I was not aware of like the auctions house/economy, dungeons/caves, Clans, and crafting areas...and so forth. All of which *are* in Tabula Rasa.

Tabula Rasa is a decent MMO, its not perfect, but none are.

More importantly there is an obvious connection between how much time we are willing to spend testing a game, and how quickly we are to form an opinion about it. Both of which speak volumes about this community. I've been monitoring these forums for about a year, and I am surprised to see that a large majority of the user based information is inaccurate. If you want information on a game, or to critic it. I highly suggest you go to the game companies forums, where you will get the real facts. People feel free to post what ever they want here because they think no one is watching, or of any autority to correct them. Leaving the floor open to misinformatiin on a massive scale. Take it for what it is worth.

Unfortunately - there is no T.R game forum. Lots of good fan sites though.

you dont instantly make back all the development costs within a year.  it takes time.  but Tabula Rasa did not shake up the industry

I think development costs and the actual player base are 2 different things. You can't actually put the whole development in the scale because there's no way in that period to have revenues. It's more like a debt which you work on. TR is a tool to work on that debt. I read it has over 100k ppl playing it and i hear that's all a mmog needs to generate profits.

Originally posted by Death1942

you dont instantly make back all the development costs within a year.  it takes time.  but Tabula Rasa did not shake up the industry

Originally posted by pussaykat

I think development costs and the actual player base are 2 different things. You can't actually put the whole development in the scale because there's no way in that period to have revenues. It's more like a debt which you work on. TR is a tool to work on that debt. I read it has over 100k ppl playing it and i hear that's all a mmog needs to generate profits.

It is common for a business not to pull in full income for the end of the year but games... games realli work on a different network.

Once you're burned, coming back from that is realli hard... not impossible.. but realli hard.

On top of that.... taking either numbers side, they didnt seem to even come close to breaking even and the job lose WILL effect the game and its development and "heart" in the game which is key.

If that fails... most you'll see is a slow slow death. keep the game open as long as ppl are paying and leave it at that. Best bet is to kount their losses and sell it. They can try to save it but that dept isnt going to just go poof... every month that passes were ppl have to work on the game with little profit gain will send them greater in dept and its coming out of somebody's pocket.. trust me.

Having played beta and the first weeks after launch, I cant say I am surprised. There just isnt enough game in the game to keep you playing more than a few weeks. I mean its ALL just PEW PEW PEW all the way. One big battlefield. Thats all. *shrug*

I am quite surprised some are surprised about this. TR isnt a bad game, its just a small, small part of what I regard to be a game, it has just too little of EVERYTHING to make me stay.

Got to love MMORPG.com

These forums aren't for players of TR or other games or even potential players - they are infested by trollish children with the critical thinking abilities of jello. 

All these posters without a clue, full of their own importance and bile who like to bash any game they can.  Does it make you feel better about yourself to spout inaccurate rubbish? 

It's actually pointless to visit these forums unless you want to rant about something, they really should register a new domain MMORPGwhinge.com

Maybe it serves a purpose by concentrating all the clueless wankers in one place and keeping them off serious forums where people actually have something to say.

Feel free to bitch to each other, any actual player of TR knows you're talking shit.

The facts are NCsoft is still releying on indivdual accounts to make the bulk of their profit. Soe simplified this by making the station pass. For NCsoft not to come up with a similar plan is their own mistake. Tabula Rasa along with COV/COH, L2, and xsteel would make a very good game buddle. I feel there is too much competition in the market these days too reley on just "one" game to carry you threw. Gammers these days are very reluctant to switch games. NCsoft also has problems promoting their games threw trials, and offering players the oppertunity to want to make the switch.

I like TR very much, and feel if it gets a little more attension in the crafting aspect, lfg toolset, PvP, and end game content this game will do well. As one player said it's not the core functions that are the problem, but the lack in other aspect of the game design that is hurting it. Also that the fact that NCsoft has to adapt to customer demands to "try" the game before purchase, and offer competitive prices for the consumers loyal and have more than one NCsoft title.

I agree - If NCsoft had a bundle I would be happy to pay say $20 a month and go out and buy the COX boxes to play.

Maybe if they had an option where it went up by say $5 a month for each additional game you want to play.

So 1 game = $15, 2 = $20, 3 = 25, 4 = 30 etc.

Originally posted by _Shadowmage

I agree - If NCsoft had a bundle I would be happy to pay say $20 a month and go out and buy the COX boxes to play.

Maybe if they had an option where it went up by say $5 a month for each additional game you want to play.

So 1 game = $15, 2 = $20, 3 = 25, 4 = 30 etc.

See something like this would sell more NCsoft games. More copys sold + more accounts = bigger profit! Call me NCsoft if you need help with this equation.

Originally posted by _Shadowmage

Unfortunately - there is no T.R game forum. Lots of good fan sites though.

And that's one of the major problems - no official forums where subscribers can vent spleen at the devs for the games failings, shortcomings, and the vapourware they are blowing up our collective bottoms

I've a feeling that they decided to axe any though of official forums after needing all those pairs of asbestos undies during closed beta, as spreading the userbase thinly amongst the fansites dilutes the negativity so justly deserved

Though - one does have to question why, in the face of no official forums, NCSoft and DG have kept the forum nazi's from beta on the payroll as Community Co-ordinator when there isn't an official community? I'd be thinking it would be better to give these people their walking papers and hire a few more devs.

More work on content and flesh out the skill tree, less propaganda from corporate shills kplzthnx