Originally posted by Slampig

I have to say, I am amazed at the replies in this thread....

 

Is it just that inbred SOE hate? Or are you really such donkies that you don't see what this is?

 

I applaud SOE for making this scholorship. Forgive my spelling if that is wrong. The gaming world needs more women developers. To sit here and act like dipsh*ts just because it is SOE doing this is assinine. Check my spelling on that too...

 

I see it this way, anything any company does to invite and promote more people joining the ranks and adding new perspectives and thoughts into MMO developement.. the better.

Dont be stupid ...

A good game is a good game , and a good animation is a good animation, no matter was it done by female or male .. what SOE needs is talented people with skills ... not matter  what gender or race...

Taking a woman over more talented male/ and vice versa ..  is pure insanity ..

and what do you say to talented male ;

Sorry you are a great animator but we are looking for a woman  today ,even though she is not as talented,nor can she animate .....but hey Industry needs more woman ....

Conclusion yes I agree they need more woman ; but not on account of discriminating  talented male artists /animators and programmers, it should be equal oportunity here for all ,,, and who ever is better should get the job no matter of what race or sex... because the quality of the product is what matters not the fact that person doing it had a pair of boobs/balls

as for not having more woman in gaming industry , it  is  not a male  problem that girls choose fashion design over animation and programming

I know for one, race will never change. People and Businesses are making too much money and kickbacks for their efforts in making the white people feel guilty for being white.

Yep its no longer about having the best people, or the most qualified, its making sure you have 4 blacks, 4 latinos, 3 asians, 5 women, and 2 white guys.

Lets make sure our office is a perfectly balanced bag of skittles! not to many greens, not to many blues, and screw the reds!

Political correctness is so counter productive its unreal.

Let me get this straight. We are going to hire x minority at x percent so that they have an advantage and can stop being dependent on the y man who has all the power. Yet in doing so, all your doing is making the x man more dependent on the y mans guilt for being a y man.

*shakes head*

Lets go back to the whole time honored tradition of if your better your hired. I dont care if your purple with three heads and married to your sister.

Originally posted by Slampig

 

I don't get it.

that is apparent

Originally posted by Cway214

Originally posted by MickeyMann

One Question , will there be a swimsuit competition?

HAHA my thoughts exactly!!!!

LOL so we are in agreement then.

Originally posted by Kasatka

 

Originally posted by pyrofreak

 

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Im getting tired of Being a White Middle aged male....

Here's to sex discrimination!

 

 

Doing it one way is wrong, doing it the other way is just as bad.

 

Amen to that!

The world is just one big politically correct mess isn't it?

It just felt right quoting this, I mean if they weren't trying to descriminate with this they are, you cant try not to descriminate without descriminating yourself... True that guys... see I just did it I said guys not people... when will it end?

I'm not 100% sure but 10,000 will not pay for their full education.  The illinois institute of art's web design program costs 15,848.  They are probably paying 78,215.

Also, they need to be already accepted into the program in order to earn the scholarship.  In order to get into the program there is probably a application fee and a portfolio submission - so they are there because they earned it not because they are female.

Bottom line this is probably a ploy to bring females (something SOE has been trying to get for years) to play SOE games.  Institute of art is one of the biggest franchise schools in America and a simple $10,000 drop brings all sorts of girl friendly publicity to all areas of the US.

The paid internship is the part that bothers me, in the words of Admiral Ackbar "IT'S A TRAP!"

What is wrong with funding a scholarship for THE MOST QUALIFIED potential developer?  I am completely against basing anything on race or gender. 

There are absolutely NO barriers keeping women out of software development or information technology.  The reason why there aren't more women in these fields is they aren't as interested in them as men are, for probably the same reason women aren't as interested in games and MMO games as men are.  IMHO, I think women are foolish for largely passing up these fields, because the industry is so (foolishly) determined to cast off it's "geeky male dominated" image that most companies will hire any female with a pulse, regardless of qualification.

I recently went through a process of hiring some interns for my department (IT, network administration).  We had ONE, yes, ONE female applicant.  We were under some pressure to try to hire a female if we could but we couldn't justify it, she was far less qualified than her competitors.  Had any other women even bothered applying, one would certainly have been hired.  Hint: Correctly spelling the name of the job you are applying for helps (true story).

If SOE or any other development house funded a scholarship for a MALE developer, based on gender, there would be outrage. 

Ditto should be true if the shoe is on the other foot.  I am completely against ANY preferences based on anything except qualifications.  Basing hiring practices on anything other than simply trying to get the best talent you possibly can leads to your team not being the best it can be.

Same thing goes for the industry as a whole.  If the MMO and IT industries in the United States starts hiring people based on balancing races and sexes rather than qualification, they will cease to lead the rest of the world.

Discrimination based on anything other than qualification is incredibly dumb because it dooms your company to be forever drawing from an inferior pool of talent and falling behind competitors.  No business is any better than the quality of it's employees.  If SOE has been aggressively practicing "affirmative action" and hiring people based on racial or gender quotas rather than qualification, perhaps this accounts for some of their managerial and development quality deficiencies.

Originally posted by pyrofreak

 

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Im getting tired of Being a White Middle aged male....

Here's to sex discrimination!

 

 

Doing it one way is wrong, doing it the other way is just as bad.

This is correct.

What is worse, it's an insult to the beneficiary.

The woman who received this scholarship might have the talent to be the next Raph Koster.  Then again, she might not have the talent to be the next Blixtev.  Either way, her sex shouldn't have had anything to do with getting a scholarship or not, and there is a stigma associated with being the beneficiary of a set aside like this.

Just on a quick note, it may seem sexist that they are doing this to draw females in, but it's not. There are laws out there which require a certain amount of people from a class in their. I know even from my job, they need so many males/females/whites/blacks/natives/asians/etc. This is law. They would be shut down if they don't have enough of the mix in their workplace.

That's the governments solution to racism/sexism. Mandatory laws that a certain percentage of people need to be hired.

Originally posted by Icesis

Just on a quick note, it may seem sexist that they are doing this to draw females in, but it's not. There are laws out there which require a certain amount of people from a class in their. I know even from my job, they need so many males/females/whites/blacks/natives/asians/etc. This is law. They would be shut down if they don't have enough of the mix in their workplace.

That's the governments solution to racism/sexism. Mandatory laws that a certain percentage of people need to be hired.

That is not true.  The law requires that you NOT discriminate based on race, sex, religion, etc.  But corporations like to use quotas though so their EEO reports look good.  This is done mostly for PR purposes, and it's one reason why large corporations generally are less efficient than small ones.  Indeed, corps HAVE been sued successfully by even "eeevil" white males for discrimination when not hired because of quotas.  It's a catch 22, government agencies actually WANT you to quota hire, but the law doesn't protect you if you do. 

The reason that more corps don't get sued over this is two fold:  Firstly, there is a social pressure against it (the stigma of white males having all the advantages, etc).  Secondly, people who are more qualified than others WILL end up getting a job.

Fact of the matter is this:  If it's agreed that discriminating for employment based on race, sex, or religion instead of qualifications/talent is a bad thing, then WHY don't we END all discrimination based on race, sex, and religion?  Set asides, female and minority ONLY scholarships, etc ARE, IN FACT, acts of discrimination based on race and sex, and only serve to prolong the problem.  As someone else in this thread stated, it's not 1968 anymore.  We need to "get over" the 1960's as a society in the worst way.  There have been multiple generations since who have grown up accustomed to integration and with women being afforded the same opportunities as men.'

Originally posted by CleffyII

I hate that in the Game Industry 98% of the applicants are male, but 30% of the people who get jobs are female.  Most often times not even the most or even a contender in the most competent applicants.  In general if 98% of the applicants are male, we should see 98% of the jobs taken by males in a purely equal setting.  However, we aren't seeing this.  It isn't even who is the best worker.  Its just she is a woman we must hire her mentality.  I think the reason most SOE Games suck artistically and in animation is because they hire based on sex rather then actual competence.

So not only are you making up numbers, you're completely ignoring the fact that some women *gasp* may be better or more qualified than some men.

Now I completely understand WHY there are scholarships and laws in place that favor women or non-whites... while there are people who go "stop judging based on gender/race" and can actually stick to their guns, there are a lot of people who are sexist and racist (as you can clearly see in this string as well). So such things exist to protect people from those unable to see people for who they are and not who they were born as.

Originally posted by streea

 

Originally posted by CleffyII

I hate that in the Game Industry 98% of the applicants are male, but 30% of the people who get jobs are female.  Most often times not even the most or even a contender in the most competent applicants.  In general if 98% of the applicants are male, we should see 98% of the jobs taken by males in a purely equal setting.  However, we aren't seeing this.  It isn't even who is the best worker.  Its just she is a woman we must hire her mentality.  I think the reason most SOE Games suck artistically and in animation is because they hire based on sex rather then actual competence.

I guess you missed the whole "stop being sexist" theme that's running through this string. If 97 average guys apply and three incredibly talented female do too, and then the three females are hired, it has nothing to do with the quantity that applies... only the quality.

 

So not only are you making up numbers, you're completely ignoring the fact that some women *gasp* may be better or more qualified than some men.

Now I completely understand WHY there are scholarships and laws in place that favor women or non-whites... while there are people who go "stop judging based on gender/race" and can actually stick to their guns, there are a lot of people who are sexist and racist (as you can clearly see in this string as well). So such things exist to protect people from those unable to see people for who they are and not who they were born as.

Have you ever seen the SOE development teams?  They have a much larger proportion of women then actual women applicants.  I agree it shouldn't be about the percentage of who applies but the actual talent.  However, from many SOE Games it should be obvious the talent wasn't the main concern by the hiring department.

When I saw this headline i read it this way "SOE desperate as hell for positive attention"  If they where at all serious they would dump millions into a already existent fund.

Originally posted by Ekibiogami

Im getting tired of Being a White Middle aged male....

lol true.

I'm.. actually kind of twisted up inside on this one..and I'm a female..and I went to school for Game Design & Development...and yea the 10k would of been a help but..I don't really think its fair to offer it to someone because they're a female. Hopefully besides being female the canditates have to atleast have talent & drive to want to be in the industry...but still it just....it doesnt' sit right with me ... if you want to be in the industry you want to be in the industry..a scholarship for a lucky hopefully talented female just seems kinda lame. 

When I went to school It was me and 1 other girl.  We didn't need a scholarship or encouragement to want to get into what we were there to do.  We were there because we had passion & drive and we succeeded at that.  (granted im not in the game industry at the moment but sometimes family tragedy can change the direction your looking in for a while).

By the time we graduated..there were atleast 10 more girls in the classes beneath us.  For a long time it was believed we're rare but I think as games become more and more apart of our culture its no longer rare.  There's just not as many of us that have that passion or drive to want to make games.. not yet anyway.  It takes passion, drive, and talent to get into the industry not your sexual organs. 

If a girl sucks as a dev she sucks as a dev and not because she's a girl.  

Originally posted by elvenangel

I'm.. actually kind of twisted up inside on this one..and I'm a female..and I went to school for Game Design & Development...and yea the 10k would of been a help but..I don't really think its fair to offer it to someone because they're a female. Hopefully besides being female the canditates have to atleast have talent & drive to want to be in the industry...but still it just....it doesnt' sit right with me ... if you want to be in the industry you want to be in the industry..a scholarship for a lucky hopefully talented female just seems kinda lame. 

When I went to school It was me and 1 other girl.  We didn't need a scholarship or encouragement to want to get into what we were there to do.  We were there because we had passion & drive and we succeeded at that.  (granted im not in the game industry at the moment but sometimes family tragedy can change the direction your looking in for a while).

By the time we graduated..there were atleast 10 more girls in the classes beneath us.  For a long time it was believed we're rare but I think as games become more and more apart of our culture its no longer rare.  There's just not as many of us that have that passion or drive to want to make games.. not yet anyway.  It takes passion, drive, and talent to get into the industry not your sexual organs. 

If a girl sucks as a dev she sucks as a dev and not because she's a girl.  

There always is a lot more pride in doing it yourself the hard way.

I'm an "eevil" white male.  I grew up poor in Appalachia, and did not have the money to finish college for years.  But I did it myself.  I was not eligible for many scholarships because of the color of my skin and my gender, despite graduating high school with honors.

I taught myself my computer skills and have worked in IT for 15 years now.  I've gone from working in an IT outsourcing sweat shop to Senior Engineer and Assistant IT Manager for a sizable company.

No one ever gave me ANYTHING for growing up poor, the color of my skin, or my gender.  My accomplishments are truly my own.  I pity those who can't say the same.

You know, considering that white male heterosexual christians are the only group of people who can be customarily and acceptably discriminated against, could we be the next civil rights movement?

Originally posted by salvaje

You know, considering that white male heterosexual christians are the only group of people who can be customarily and acceptably discriminated against, could we be the next civil rights movement?

The sad thing is... people would show up talking about slavery and segregation and how white males don't have it hard, as if you're some sort of rare species that's impervious to all pain and suffering. Oh, and you obviously owned slaves. Time machines and all...

At the same time, you shouldn't pity anyone for aid they received. Everyone faces life differently. And as other people have pointed out, this 10K will just leave the girl who receives it in LESS debt. Just because someone travels a road with a few less bumps in it doesn't lessen the fact that they're traveling it and making their own accomplishments. (It doesn't lessen your experiences either though.)

What I find amusing is that the girl who receives this will probably be extremely happy for the help and not realize that such an award has caused so much debate ^^;;

Good deal.

Hopefully she can takes Smedley's place in the future.

SOE could use a nice 180 flip-around.

I don't get it... this is a possitive action from  SOE and all the people start talking negative things about it... SOE so far has the best game out there a lot of people who have played says it. Unfurtanetly it comsumes a lot of time. I share the same opinion about SOE needing a new direction and to returns to its root, altough smedley was part of the begining of EQ. It doesn't change the fact that SOE needs a new direction.