Originally posted by Visc

Being a veteran of the harshest crafting system in any MMO which is FFXI and tried  other MMO's crafting systems, I can honestly say this system isn't as easy as the OP makes it sound. You need to research Capital Component manufacturing and Capital Ship manufacturing. Tech II Ship and  Complex Compounds are additional examples of items that are more than just click and "poof". The system isn't near as difficult as FFXI but isn't as easy as the OP makes it sound.

 

I was wondering if other MMOs had a similar buy/order system.  It seems like most MMOs use an auction system which is essentially like the contracts in EVE.

I also like how there are player made escrow systems as well. 

I do not read the forums that much also not in eve. And i have played the game for almost five years now.

My highest account has an sp of over 75 mil. And never did any pvp or pve. I do misions with this character and i mine a lot with this character. My second character is over 50 mil sp and is also a miner.

Problem with the big battles from over 100 people that system becomes so laggy that normal play in that system is almost not to do. In pve or pvp you loose a real lot of ships.

I choose this game because you have not be on online too get skilled. You can do your own thing also in a corperation.

And grinding you can do every where also in eve which a whole lot people do but what if have lots of isks and you can fly the ship or use the equipment you want.

Also there are ore thiefs, the cooperation stealers and all sort of spies.

And the best part are jumpclones you do not fly through enemysystems too get where you want to be. Problem you need then 24 hours then you can jump back again.

The tractorbeams to get you cans in a lot easier. The rigs too get your ship more upgradable.

And with every patch or expansion you get more sort of ships.

Eve started with only a frigate, a cruiser, battlecruiser and a hauler all T1 and now 10 times more ships more equipment a better contracting system and better market place.

Jita(caldari) is place where all sales take place but not during the weekend. But also rens(minmater) and oursalat(galente). And in amar space there would such a place.

AK

Your review is WAY off about preformance.

You need to change EVERY other MMO lower then 7 considering eve is able to have EVERYONE on 1 server. EVE outpreforms EVERY other MMO for handeling mass amounts of people clustered.

You also say it is a 7 because 400 vs 400 gives lag? You tell me ANY game that 800 people are all together that would give no lag. You also greatly exadurate the 3 min wait. I doubt you ever were involved in a large fleet to see what your assuming and passing on as fact.

Jita? theres usually 600-1000 (sometimes more) people all clustered and it still don't crash the system.

City of Heros scored higher in preformance and they needed to cap the freedom server because of overload issues on the double exp weekend and they only had like 3000 ON THE WHOLE SERVER. EVE has had this many in ONE AREA before!

EVE has about 40,000 at most times and still runs fine.

Missions do not lag, they are smooth as silk. Gangs also. The only lag I get is those super huge fleets of hundreds all globbed in the same area, and still the lag has improved 10 times over. 

EVE is superior to all other current MMO in terms of it's amount of people it can handle and still preform well.

The community is way low too. EVE has the most mature player base I ever delt with on a MMO. Your examples of gankers is true, but when you get into one of the many corps you see different. There is also a player corp dedicated to training new players called EVE University.

Eve has a much better preformance and community then 7.

Originally posted by Shohadaku

Your review is WAY off about preformance.

You need to change EVERY other MMO lower then 7 considering eve is able to have EVERYONE on 1 server. EVE outpreforms EVERY other MMO for handeling mass amounts of people clustered.

You also say it is a 7 because 400 vs 400 gives lag? You tell me ANY game that 800 people are all together that would give no lag. You also greatly exadurate the 3 min wait. I doubt you ever were involved in a large fleet to see what your assuming and passing on as fact.

Jita? theres usually 600-1000 (sometimes more) people all clustered and it still don't crash the system.

EVE has about 40,000 at most times and still runs fine.

The community is way low too. EVE has the most mature player base I ever delt with on a MMO. Your examples of gankers is true, but when you get into one of the many corps you see different. There is also a player corp dedicated to training new players called EVE University.

Eve has a much better preformance and community then 7.

 

Your opinion about performance is waaaaaaaaaaaay off, actually the 7 from a 0.0 point of view is waaaay to high, and from an empire perspective a little bit low so the 7 she gave seems to a good middle point allthough too high imho.

30 versus 30 battles allready give 5 minute gridload lag and dysync issues in some parts of 0.0, where as 100 vs. 150 completly crash nodes, ow and all losses related to these experiences are NOT reimbursable. Really great fun when you are putting your caps on the line.... NOT. 10 minute to 1 hour gridloading is factual. Performance is a 3 for these environments at a maximum.

Eve has a mechanic where GM's can reinforce nodes if they expect HUGE fights but then they can still do only as much. It has come to the point that fleet engagements are all about who's FC masters lag best and skill, setups and ships have nothing to do with it at all.

If you claim that EVE doesnot have a lag problem then you are most definetly not taking part in the pvp aspect of Eve.

And your Jita remark is silly, where as Jita can handle around 700 with heavy lag, you'll get stuck for hours if it goes above that and you are trying to dock/undock/jump into Jita. I'd advise you to try entering Jita on sunday around 22:00 gametime and come back here to post about jita performance.

Dark Age of Camelot handles 400 vs 400, be it laggy, it handles it to a decree that is still playable and is caused by client sided gfx lag, whereas when lag hits Eve it most def. is not playable anymore and serversided...

Originally posted by Shohadaku

Your review is WAY off about preformance.

You also say it is a 7 because 400 vs 400 gives lag? You tell me ANY game that 800 people are all together that would give no lag. You also greatly exadurate the 3 min wait. I doubt you ever were involved in a large fleet to see what your assuming and passing on as fact.

Jita? theres usually 600-1000 (sometimes more) people all clustered and it still don't crash the system.

 

Three minutes waiting is hardly exaggerated. Sunday -monday night, I jumped into 4u9-system in Deklein at 01.11 local time. The system finished loading (for me) at around 02.16 local time, although I was able to warp around before that, that was the time I finally started seeing anything else other then my own ship, and that was because local had dropped and we'd won the fight. And that was with 300  people in-system, something that's standard for Jita.

Jita is a reinforced node, because it has so much people always in it. I bet there are several dozen players who never actually leave Jita, but live their whole lives there, trading, scamming, suicide-hunting and wardeccing.

In the outer reaches of 0.0 space, a single node can handle traffic in dozens of systems, but when there's a fight, the node gets a lot more action then in 'normal' mode, and that's when the hampsters start to die.

I agree that what CCP has managed with EVE is technically a miracle, and a very impressive feat of system engineering, but don't try to say that EVE isn't at the very limits of its system capability. It shows to the players, it shows to reviewers, and thus it lowers the grade for performance.

You should also note that the grades in reviews are not absolute, nor are they mathemathically comparable to each other between different reviewers. A reviewers view is also only of the 'outside', the clientside workability of the design, while a long-term player has an eye 'inside', seeing the very worst of lags (LOTRO, center of Bree in beta, anyone?) and near-crashes of the server. Demanding that every grade on a site be changed because they are not in accordance with your feelings on what game has best performance shows a great deal of hubris.

Mmmm I am a long time EVE player and I do like the game, obviously.... but I am really tired of seeing things like

Cons:  Community and performance

And then the score is a 7 (on a 1-10 scale)

I'd rate EVE's performance at a 5 or a 6

I'd rate EVE's community at a 5 as well. 

7 is just too high for BOTH of those categories.  Rest is spot-on though.  Love the game... but really tired of seeing reviewrs list a 'negative' about a game and then turn around and give the same game, no matter what the title is, an "above average" rating in that very category.

Oh and the score of 10 on graphics is a bit over the top.  The new graphics are much nicer than the old ones but, frankly, the graphics don't deserve a 10.  A solid 8 or 9 though.

Great review!

Originally posted by Taram

Mmmm I am a long time EVE player and I do like the game, obviously.... but I am really tired of seeing things like

 

Cons:  Community and performance

And then the score is a 7 (on a 1-10 scale)

 

I'd rate EVE's performance at a 5 or a 6

I'd rate EVE's community at a 5 as well. 

7 is just too high for BOTH of those categories.  Rest is spot-on though.  Love the game... but really tired of seeing reviewrs list a 'negative' about a game and then turn around and give the same game, no matter what the title is, an "above average" rating in that very category.

Oh and the score of 10 on graphics is a bit over the top.  The new graphics are much nicer than the old ones but, frankly, the graphics don't deserve a 10.  A solid 8 or 9 though.

Why would you rate comunity at 5? Its much better and more mature than in most mmo's ive played ..

Originally posted by Gramis

Why would you rate comunity at 5? Its much better and more mature than in most mmo's ive played ..

Eve would get a 5 from me as well but so would just about any online game.  One can claim that Eve has a better community than other games but that all depends on what you have experienced and not what it is in reality for everyone.

On the OP -- good review imo.  Thanks to MMORPG for doing these types of things.  And to the nay-sayers -- sign up to be a MMORPG.com reviewer and then come back and make your comments imo.

Nice write up, even if it is coming from a newer player. I think it gives a pretty decent overview of the game, and hits all the points it needs to.

Remember, reviews are still opinions.... some of you should go chill out and learn to respect others views.

Respoding to the writers comment on my first post:

Yes I did read both parts of your review and my comment was in no way a critiscism of you but a complement to the depth of the game. I agree with some of the earlier sentiment that games such as Eve can only be reviewed in summary fashion unless you have been a long term player and hav had the opportunity to try all aspects.

You clearly, and honestly, did not try to portray yourself as such and therefore I stand by my complementary comments of both the game and your review.

Originally posted by Neopsych

Respoding to the writers comment on my first post:

Yes I did read both parts of your review and my comment was in no way a critiscism of you but a complement to the depth of the game. I agree with some of the earlier sentiment that games such as Eve can only be reviewed in summary fashion unless you have been a long term player and hav had the opportunity to try all aspects.

 

You clearly, and honestly, did not try to portray yourself as such and therefore I stand by my complementary comments of both the game and your review.

 

Thank you!  I just wanted to make sure you hadn't missed the first half :)

I read both portions, and as a relatively new player I could easily relate. I've been playing for 7 months or so and I took a slightly different path so I got to see a few things you didn't (spent a few months in 0.0)

But overall, I've not had time to touch the crafting side, or the exploration, or the mining, or about a dozen other things.  Which is why I love the game, so much to learn, so much to do.

The review was well done, you only spoke about what you experienced and pointed out those areas that you couldn't offer a detailed opinion on.

Sure, someday someone with 5 years experience can write an in-depth review if they like.  But I'm thinking it might be better to publish that in a paperback novel.

i can only agree on a point or two, as with any game that is a "lord of the flies" game it will always remain small, a niche game at best. while eve has very nice graphics it doesnt make up for a game that is "on the rails flight and combat resolution" , both of which are simplistic and a big negative in my book. the economy is what you make of it, sure there is scamming but it's easy to avoid.

you said it best, "if you arent my friend, you are my income" (i love that)  adding consequence to this game would make it much better and draw more people.

folks disagree or agree on this point but most will say a corp is mandatory, allies etc. the solo player running around in low sec, or null need not apply. not saying they cant, i had fun smack talking gatecamps and causing all sorts of trouble in various regions (whilst not getting caught) but for a player wanting to make a difference by any means (scamming not included) its impossible.

if eve had newtonian physics (more realistic space flight and combat resolution) it would encourage others to venture out confront those "brave corps" and probably beat the hell out of them. as it is it looks like jumpgate will be what draws folks wanting more than a lord of the flies experiance on a rail.

and for the record i still think eve, for now, is the best space sim going.

---

Originally posted by Clattuc
As pieces by underqualified reviewers go, very pleasant.  If that 8.5 becomes MMORPG.COM's new official rating, it should appear with an asterisk, because it's meaningless.
If you are going to review a five year old game  with a slow development path, it's not enough to roll a toon and play for a few months, then cheerily admit "I didn't try" half of the game's mechanisms.  You look over the shoulders of one or two veteran players who can demonstrate the advanced features and zones that your noob toon isn't ready for.

---

Actually, this is *exactly* the kind of review that I think most people considering playing this game will want to read. I don't care if a game gets really deep and rich only after you've played it for years; I want to know how it plays at the beginning because, frankly, it's the experience of those first few months that's going to make or break a game for me. Finding out how "good" it might get after playing for a year or more is not a selling point because I don't give a rip. If I'm still playing the game after three months, I'll see that for myself, but if the initial few months stinks, then goodbye, game.

Laura's thorough and well-written reviews unfailingly focus on the newer player's experience and for that, I must say, I am quite grateful. It's not that I don't care about endgame content; it's that if I don't like how a game begins, the endgame features are completely irrelevant because I'll have quit long before then.

I love you taerat.

*smooch*

Originally posted by Gramis

Originally posted by Taram

Mmmm I am a long time EVE player and I do like the game, obviously.... but I am really tired of seeing things like

 

Cons:  Community and performance

And then the score is a 7 (on a 1-10 scale)

 

I'd rate EVE's performance at a 5 or a 6

I'd rate EVE's community at a 5 as well. 

7 is just too high for BOTH of those categories.  Rest is spot-on though.  Love the game... but really tired of seeing reviewrs list a 'negative' about a game and then turn around and give the same game, no matter what the title is, an "above average" rating in that very category.

Oh and the score of 10 on graphics is a bit over the top.  The new graphics are much nicer than the old ones but, frankly, the graphics don't deserve a 10.  A solid 8 or 9 though.

Why would you rate comunity at 5? Its much better and more mature than in most mmo's ive played ..

Mmmmm lets see... why would I rate it a 5?

1) General attitude in every aspect of EVE life that "if you are not blue you are prey"

2) I have played just about every MMORPG on the market.  Only in EVE have I EVER had a TS server hacked (not once, but multiple times, to multiple alliances).  Only in EVE do players feel its "ok" to hack into other people's forums, webservers, teamspeak servers,etc... all in the name of winning at internet spaceships.  This is NOT a mature community.  Yes, there are many mature PEOPLE in the community and yes there are many OLDER players in EVE and more PROFESSIONAL players in EVE.  But the community, as a whole, is pretty pathetic to be quite honest.  In EVE it's commonplace for players to scam their corporation(guild)mates out of billions of isk in value (read: Months of in-game effort) just for jollies. 

In EVE it's very common for players to try to trick new players into aggressing themselves so that the older player can get his jollies by blowing the newbie up. 

And if you'd like a GLOWING example of the level of immaturity in EVE?  Just take a stroll through the official forums, most notably the "Corporations and Organizations Discussions" Forum AKA: CAOD

If, after all that, you still think EVE has one of the 'most mature communities' out there.  Then you're delusional.  Don't get me wrong.  I like EVE.  Hell I've played it since 2005 and was in the Beta as well.  But 'mature community' is NOT one of it's strengths.  Yes, there are mature members of the community, and you can avoid the deadheads somewhat.  But the overall community consists of cheaters, scammers, hackers, exploiters and all the other common drivvel you'll find in every other game.  However, unlike in every other game, CCP does VERY little to curb antisocial behavior within the game (one of it's strenghts, yes, but it certainly doesn't raise the maturity level in the game).

And no, I've never, not even once, fallen for a scam.  However, I do know and know of numerous people who have.  And the scammers GENERALLY prey on NEW PLAYERS because the older players have learned to detect it. 

Heh  i thought this had to do somthing with CAOD - only difference is that CAOD posters represent what? less than 10% of EvE comunity? Also if im not mistaking COAD is pretty much an extension of the wars carried between corps/alliances. As for scamming, well you cant say CCP does very little imo. Ive started playing in 2005 and since than market and market tools at the dispossal of the player have improved quite alot. And no im not delusional, im just hoping you are not clouded by the experiences you had in this war between Bob and redswarm

I guess is as someone said it already that you cant judge the comunity only from your point of view and pass it on as the truth. You`d give comunity a 5, id give it  a 6 or 7 from my experience.

Nice review I liked it, you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Also "if you arent my friend you are my income"  that made me chuckle and its sooooo true. Oh yeah and regarding our (EVE) forums if you follow the following rules you will find your experience with us EVE players is much more pleasant.

1. DONT EVER post or read CAOD (Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions) this is mostly used to trash talk your enemies or for Propaganda.

2. Don't whine on our forums, most of the time they get answered woth "can I have your stuff" and get very heavily flamed :P, well written and  toaught out posts hardly ever get trolled or derailed (exept on caod of course :P)

yeah Lag sucks  in big fleet battles but tbh show me a game that can handle 400 vs 400 (not to mention the additional npcs (omgwtf where is my ship fighter swarms)  usually numbering easily 100 NPC fighters which are controlled by Capital class Carriers or motherships.

Otherwise a nice unbiased review, btw if you wish to ecplore more of the game I am part of a 0.0 alliance I can show you how it is to build your own home and defend it (or burn down someone else home)

I really enjoyed your review :)

however I would argue that because the community is so heartless it actully deserves a higher rating.

most evil mean pirates thank you for the fight once your done.

Also ans of eve on the forums make wallpapers and one player games based off eve. the home worl mod and 3D models, remixes and lots of other projects. I guess if you only go by in game it should take a 7, however with the community as a whole, going out to a bar with eve players fanfest and so forth. I mean how many games have such a community feel as fanfest does? you get to just go and drink beer with the devs. it's great!

So While I agree with your review maybe if you looked outside of the in-game parts of the community you would give eve an 8 out of 10 instead.

Also I live how your review should hopefully show the devs that they REALLY need a better sound engine so you turn down the stupid warp sound or missles. I think the reason they can't be is 5 years ago they wanted to make sound "move" orsomething and so like if the missles are fra away camera wise they will sound less loud?

but the whole thing is flawed.

Also to the people that said eve shouldn't get a 10 for graphics, it's not a one player game, eve has advanced mmorpg graphics to great hieghts. you can't based it on other gmes that aren't mmorpgs. 

Well I hope you look into the community some more and I hope that CCP fixes the sound and the server lag. once that happens I hope you'll review the game again :) actully I hope you'll review ambulation when it comes out any chance of that?