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The core game of VG was great but the lies and deception are what turned me off. I bought it at launch trying really hard to overlook it's crazy bugs and obvious 6 mo of dev time left but could not... I went back for a month in november to see how it turned out and a lot of the bugs have been fixed and the performance was slightly better. But They STILL do not have flying mounts in the game which was a huge selling point for the game! and player housing ect... Sony sucks the most ass here for not admitting that it was thier fault that this title turned out the way it did by forcing them to release it so early. They should be footing the bill at a loss for a large dev team to turn it into the game it should have been and let it run for 3-4 years with low subs or not. I have lost all resepct for SOE for what they did to VG and to both the devs who poured thier hearts and souls into the game and the players who did so as well. |
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2/13/08 5:07:58 AM#2
Did you even try to play VG before starting this thread?
Do you realize that Sony nor SoE did not pushed the release? Do you realize that Sigil ran out of funds during development and had to either close the project or release it early and do a hard work fixing it first months? Do not blame SoE for something they did not do okay?
REALITY CHECK |
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Kyleran
 Elite Member
Joined: 9/13/06
A simple truth-"What people want and what is good for an mmo is not always the same thing"-mrw0lf |
2/13/08 5:10:58 AM#3
Well, SOE is hardly concerned about their reputation, SWG has already proven that 10 times over. But you are mistaken about SOE being to blame for VG's poor release. (it was hardly "early") After Microsoft decided to drop their support of VG, Brad turned to SOE who provided him with "XX" amount of money to finish the game's initial release (based on Brad's estimates and projections) They have no obligation to fund him further than that. It was Brad's fault that his team could not deliver the project within budget , with features intact, and with an acceptable level of quality. Now they have a small team working on as many features and fixes as they can. Since the game takes in little money, it makes no sense to pour a lot of cash into it. They are stupid sometimes, but even they know that with upcoming releases of WAR, AOC, AION and COS there's almost no chance for VG to ever hit the big time. (unless they all tank) I'm sure VG fans are happy they continue to support it, other companies might have pulled the plug by now.
"Just because you aren't paying doesn't mean it's not PTW." - Amaranthar |
Originally posted by Thillian Last time I played a few months ago I was told that they only had flying mounts that were like taxi's like WOW's flight paths. The game box said there were lots of different flyable mounts this was a lie. and the game did NOT have player housing from the beginning. I remember them talking about finally implementing it after the game was released for several months. and Yes I know why they released it early, it was Sony's fault I already said that. I don't blame sigil for anything but perhaps not prioritizing the game design to get it done in time. REALITY CHECK - The game box was a lie and to top it off they made us pay to play a very early beta! There is NO excuse, period. Fanboi.... |
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2/13/08 10:02:22 AM#5
Originally posted by mwitters The do have lots of flying mounts.. I think at least 4 or 5...
I would like to second what has been said; it was NOT Sony's fault. I am an SWG refugee, so no fan of SOE, but I have to admit that SOE bailed out Sigil and have actually done a great job fixing bugs and adding content. I do wish they would add more developers. My theory is that they are waiting for the re-release of the product. Based on the sucess of the re-release we will either see more resources added to the development of the game or...... a slow death. The re-relase is going to be crucial and they are unfortunately taking their time, but at least they are going to make every effort to get it right this time.
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Originally posted by Kyleran
Ya that;s a good point... Sigil should have scaled down the game as much as they needed to to finish on time and then implement the more complex stuff after release. Ya.... now that I think about it Sigil should have made the nessisary adjustments and cuts to finish the game on time. A agreement is and agreement and siglil was the one who didn't deliver. Without SOE who knows, VG might never have seen the light of day. I agree that with the slew of cool new mmorpg's coming out that VG has very little chance. Perhaps they will switch to a fee free platform and have item purchasing or advertisements in game or something. This whole thing is just so sad because VG had some very innovative aspects, diplomacy is the most innovative thing I've seen in a mmorpg in years, and it's crafting system was very very good. There was really only a few things about the game that I didn't like once they got the major bugs fixed. The biggest one was population of course, and performance. But also little things like the bad combat animations. If there was anything good about the release of VG it showed other devs and publishers that people will not accept paying to play an utterly broken early beta regaurdless of it's potential. Hopefully publishers will learn from this sad set of events and never release games in a state like that again. I mean, if it's not done and you refuse to put the $ into it it needs to be completed then you need to just pull the plug right then and there because a botched launch will make the game fail and hurt the publisher by it being a money hole andit hurts the gamers who trusted you and got burned, you lose trust from gamers who will be wary of buying a game from you in the furure, essp if you lied to them like VG did. Does anyone have any insider info about what SOE is thining right now about the state of VG? How long do they plan to support it with it's tiny sub rate, They must be losing money now. It sucks because the way the game plays now if there was a good population in VG I would be playing it right now. There's just not enough people to do anything in the game though... |
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Originally posted by morpin They are really going to re-release the game???!?!?! That would be AWESOME!!! omg if they could do it right this time and get some servers running full of people I would def go back to VG! |
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2/13/08 10:14:31 AM#8
Originally posted by mwitters The VG re-release is not something I have seen SOE officailly announce.. but some kind of a re-release is something the VG community generally expects. There has been official talk about a "trial island", and many are hoping that this will include a trial subscription. Many are hoping for this to happen in April or May.
But... I cant point you to an offical statement about a re-release. One other point; I am definately seeing a sharp increase in the population. I cant be bothered to count the number of players on at a certian time by doing /who commands, but I can see it for myself.
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2/13/08 10:19:10 AM#9
Ahhh... another pointless, unresearched and ill advised SOE flame thread. As has been pointed out earlier, SOE bought this game from Sigil, therby I think they have already "footed the bill" as you put it. Now, how about some positive encouragment for them to continue to fix it first and develop it on-going?
To err is human....to play is divine |
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2/13/08 10:36:32 AM#10
Originally posted by mwitters I can't believe I'm going to respond to a poster that said, "Sony sucks the most ass". But here we go. Flying mounts are in. Have been for a long time. Next step is a flying mount you can actually own which sounds like it will be questable at the end of February. Player Housing, Guild Halls, funishings... all in. Since Sony took over this game, the improvements fixes etc. have been enormous. |
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2/13/08 10:45:56 AM#11
The only mention of a re-release was from Brad McQuaid when he was running Sigil Games in early-mid 2007. SOE mentioned a free trial in the style of EQ2 with self enclosed island, but that was more about testing the "new graphic engine" they were thinking about making. They have not mentioned the free trial isle in many months as far as I know. Talk of a re-release is just optimistic speculation at this point.
To those saying SOE isn't to blame need to rethink that just a bit. SOE cut funding, that came straight from John Smedly. That is the only reason Vanguard launched when it did. The condition it launched in was the failure of the Sigil team, but SOE should have had control enough to make sure it didn't repeat the mistakes when Microsoft was publishing the game.
The end result is neither company took any of the measures needed to make sure this game was released in a marketable state. |
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2/13/08 10:51:14 AM#12
REALITY CHECK 2 moron. Houses HAVE been in since launch. I was in beta, and I was there when they finished them. Guild houses were not. Player houses, yes.
Whoever told you they were taxis is a liar, flying mount coding was also in beta. Aradune himself often travelled on a dragon in beta. The quests and such to get them was not in until this last year, but the game has had the capability from launch.
And B- it was NOT SOE's fault. Deal with it loser. Brad might have been a great game designer, but a great manager, hardly. MS gave him millions. He blew it all, and STILL was neither on time, or on budget. SOE bailed his sorry a$$ out, and he failed again. SOE gave him millions more, and plenty of time. IE 'when it's done'. HE is the one who ran out of money, due to incompitence, and failed the community he had lied to from the start. Face it pal, SOE is hardly the good guys, but on this one, they're innocent. They went far and above what any sane corperation would have to save Vanguard. Personally I'd have simply chucked the whole mess like MS and washed my hands of it soon as I got a look at Brad's "Management" skills.
The entire mess was Sigil's fault. You're too stupid to see that, then not my problem. The only fanboi here is you. Any intelligent person who could read would have seen the mess Brad made of everything and would have the IQ to actually comprehend who screwed up here. You, apparently, do not. Bye bye Idiot.
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Deathstrike2
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/04/06
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr. |
2/13/08 3:08:11 PM#13
Originally posted by mwitters LMAO, so Sony is the reason that Brad and Sigil couldn't manage their resources.
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2/13/08 4:03:35 PM#14
Originally posted by Daffid011
SOE provided enough funding to get Vanguard out the door and that’s already more then a publisher is obliged to do.
To fix the problems Vanguard had at this point would have required scrapping everything that had been done to that point and starting over with professional developers. It’s utterly ridiculous to expect a publisher to fund this type of activity for a competent development studio, let alone one as messed up as Sigil.
BTW, it’s pretty clear SOE didn’t make the same mistakes with Vanguard that Microsoft did. SOE didn’t dump good money after bad into a project that simply wasn’t going to work no matter how much more money was thrown at it. |
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2/13/08 4:17:22 PM#15
o rly? |
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