Originally posted by saay

You can quit if they make a change you dont like salvaje (as you have), you're not spending your money then - its as simple as that; I for one am ademant that the MMO industry remains in as free market conditions as possible, this way both consumers and the firms have freedom to do as they please and the price mechanism isnt distorted - adapt? well some companies may try to adapt, but as i said the market would shrink and you'd see less development, it would discourage improvements in technology on games etc, imo, its inefficient.

I'm not even arguing that they not be allowed to make any changes to the game they want, up to and including NGE type changes.

But good regulations would require them to INFORM their customers of such changes when and if they decide to do so, not months later as it's sprung on us like a trap.  I believe we have a right to know.

The NGE didn't happen in the weeks between Pub 24 and the sudden 11/2/05 Torres letter.  It was developed in secret for months (possibly even was started before the CU was released).  All during that time they kept promising us improvements in the CU system and professions, made statements like "The CU is here to stay", and marketed us an expansion.

I don't believe that SOE had a right to keep that secret from us, and that government SHOULD step in and require notification of such earthshattering changes because we, as customers, would likely have made different decisions regarding continuing to fund SWG, or prepaying our subs (I used to annually prepay) had we known what had already been decided.

To argue against this is to argue that publisher's freedom extends to the right to defraud their customers.

Which is completely unreasonable.

The monies that SOE made from SWG in the months that they were working on the NGE should be considered ill gotten gains, and if the law were updated to take into account fraud in MMO development, should have been seized and returned to the victims.

Clearly SOE knew that we'd quit soon as we knew about the NGE, because they were actually counting on it.  So they kept the NGE secret until just before release.  They knew that they'd never make money on the expansion if we knew about the NGE, so they hid the NGE until the day AFTER we were charged for it.  Clearly SOE knew on some level that they were pulling a fast one.

That is a valid point Salvaje.

I certainly have to agree with this as the minimum to what we deserve as consumers.

I am quite surprised by the number of people who allowed SOE to get away with not refunding their pre-paid time.  A case could have easily been made that the service you paid applied to a game they no longer offered and that SOE had, in fact, attempted to defraud its customers by secretly developing this change while advertising new features in the expansion.  Instead of standing up to them, most of the pre-paid crowd just bent over and took it.  Sad really.

Originally posted by jaxscorpio34

I am quite surprised by the number of people who allowed SOE to get away with not refunding their pre-paid time.  A case could have easily been made that the service you paid applied to a game they no longer offered and that SOE had, in fact, attempted to defraud its customers by secretly developing this change while advertising new features in the expansion.  Instead of standing up to them, most of the pre-paid crowd just bent over and took it.  Sad really.

Honestly, I attribute that to shock and disbelief more than anything.  It took awhile before I was convinced they wouldn't roll it back.  I mean, it was like watching a man drown but refuse a life line.  I didn't believe that SOE could possibly be that suicidally stubborn.

But they are.

The missing piece of the puzzle was that we all assumed that they even WANTED to keep us, that after half the player base quit in a month they'd realize their mistake and pull it back.  Quite the opposite, our departure was EXPECTED, so they paid it no mind.  It wasn't until early 2006 when the "target audience" flood failed to materialize that they even started noticing there were vets left.  That's when Chris Cao posted his "FU" letter if you recall.

Originally posted by jaxscorpio34

I am quite surprised by the number of people who allowed SOE to get away with not refunding their pre-paid time.  A case could have easily been made that the service you paid applied to a game they no longer offered and that SOE had, in fact, attempted to defraud its customers by secretly developing this change while advertising new features in the expansion.  Instead of standing up to them, most of the pre-paid crowd just bent over and took it.  Sad really.

I think many people just didn't know how to go about it. There seems to be an intentional wall between the customers and SOE, and I know when I've needed to contact them I felt I had to do a lot of work just to find out any contact information.

I can say, finally, that i 100% agree with you salvaje that they definately should have to give proper notice and not lie etc.

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Originally posted by salvaje
The NGE didn't happen in the weeks between Pub 24 and the sudden 11/2/05 Torres letter. It was developed in secret for months (possibly even was started before the CU was released). All during that time they kept promising us improvements in the CU system and professions, made statements like "The CU is here to stay", and marketed us an expansion.

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What you just described is exactly what a bait and switch is, and they should be rightfully sued for that.

Holy crap a thread I started is still going. New record for me!!!

SWG FTW!!

lol

You shouldn't be surprised that people would be angry after being screwed over so badly by a company.

Originally posted by ZsasZ

That's true. Saying something positive about SWG in the Vet's Refuge is asking for trouble. Or as I like to call it, The Old Whiners' Forum. See, watch:

<rant>

I don't know which of you is worse, the NGE-haters or the 'WoW is dieing (sic)' crowd. It amazes me how people get so incensed over a video game. Reality check; SWG is still around, still adding content, still signing up new players, still making money. You're a minority. A very vocal, very antagonistic, very narrow-minded minority, but a minority nonetheless. The NGE was 3 years ago, and if it hasn't been revoked by now, it ain't gonna happen. The way I see it, you have two choices; you can either continue your tirade of futility, or you can unclench your collective sphincters, admit that the game was fun while it lasted, and move on.

</rant>

Okay, fire away...

Stereotyping people who do not like the NGE by calling them narrow minded is a bit hypocritical.   And coming on a SWG veteran refuge forum to attack veterans is...well, it's down right antagonistic.

As far as PreCu vets who dislike the NGE being a vocal minority, you are wrong.  Those who like the NGE are the minority.  If you can't even aknowledge that, well then you are just a troll.

As for the OP, I'm glad you're enjoying the game.  There were elements of my trial that I enjoyed as well, but I just couldn't bring myself to resubscribe for several reasons.  One is I just don't see the game having a very bright future.  Low population and a track record for making huge game changes equates to a game that I am very hesitant to invest  time and energy into.  There is also a problem with the game where long standing problems are not fixed.  So it's either bad management or a lack of skill on the part of the developers, not sure which. 

If I do resubscribe at some later point, it will be accepting the faults I mentioned above, because there is no evidence anything will change.

$OE lied and told more lies for years. we got told we would have the curb not the cu and the cu was a bad system that was unbalanced and broken. people quit.

$OE lied more to us and gave is the nge. did we ask for the nge did we want it? no we did not we told them even back after the cu came out to roll the game back. and we still tell them to roll the game back.

see fanbois you come here and insult those that really do care about the game. we have every right to be upset our game got stolen. our game was taken away by $OE so they could try and get more 13 year olds. we don't like the nge and we never will. anyone that likes the nge is a dumb useless fanboi who needs to to go.

and again we have won i will get around to posting screen shots i took with a friends acc that show the bria, bloodfin and starsider servers with no one on at primetime.

I agree that the game was soooo much better before the CU/NGE but it is still better then alot of mmos out there today. I am having fun with the game again and I hope I continue to do so atleast until AoC comes out.

I played SWG for 3 years quit Dec 27.2007 ive been reading ur posts about pre-nge and so far i have to agree with pretty much everything you all have said  there is definetley no population, no diversity , a bastard ripoff of WOW (hence the Collection system) an endless grind i couldnt stand for one lousy N0-Trade item, hardcore NGE fans which are very rude and very defensive when  u make a negative comments about the current game as it is, lag in places where it should not be, massive cheating and exploiting, towards the end i was logging off more than logging in and i was in one of the 2nd largest guild on the server and still oculdnt round up the right professions for the heroic enoucnters or even to evn go to the DWB which i only did once since Chapter 6 was released with the combat difficulty increase before that it was a almost everyday thing after Chpater 6 I was standing around do not much of anything than doing instances etc etc. CU era was probably the most memorable and most fun I had in the game ever even though i was newthe short time i was in it with the sandbox gameplay and the extensive variety the game had to offer it was a truly a blow when the NGE came out so I held on hoping that the NGE would improve I tried to give it its chance so pretty much held on till when I finally canceled my subs a month ago now im playing EVE Online which im really impressed with its skill based system which i truly missed in SWG it was like coming home again. But when I read the people defending the current game as it is now makes me want to reach out and strangle them....... FU SOE I really hope they shut this game down we will never get Pre-Nge back might as well give it a fond farewell....

I was also pre-CU and I don't have to mention NGE because pre-CU says it all.  Elder Marksman, Elder Carbineer, Ace pilot. Anyway, SWG was my first MMOG and I was like wow.  The jedi were few and far between then.  I was pschyed to see them when I did.  Then the CU hit and I was like OK, I can deal with this.  I unlockled the holocron, started the trrees, was at force village.    Then NGE hit and I was like, great, so now I can side step work and be an instant Jedi.  Boy was I wrong.  I am sorry I answered the survey that asked me what I'd like to see in the game.  I would give it all back to be in pre-cu.

Only those who were there can tell you of how everyone depended on each other.  I remember the star ports full of players getting bufffed for battles, Tuskin Village raids and Force Village raids and battles.  The cantinas were full.  

I went back to force village of Aurilia the other day and how sad it was.  No life at all.  

The developers never listened to the core base of players about what they wanted in the game.  I am talking about the fans who were live day one.   Now EQ2 is a success because the developers of this game, who are also Sony, listen to their players.  

Give me back the force trees, force village with the sith invasions, the doctors to give buffs, full cantinas. 

Originally posted by ajax7

So many of you are just complete asses let him have fun, you go have fun with your selfs ok.

The game is a lot better so many have returned to Starsider that its gettting laggy at peak times.

Lets those that enjoy enjoy, you don't have to mock them.

Gosh so angry about a game!

 

hey, never stand between an angry nerd and his significant other....

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

$OE lied and told more lies for years. we got told we would have the curb not the cu and the cu was a bad system that was unbalanced and broken. people quit.

$OE lied more to us and gave is the nge. did we ask for the nge did we want it? no we did not we told them even back after the cu came out to roll the game back. and we still tell them to roll the game back.

see fanbois you come here and insult those that really do care about the game. we have every right to be upset our game got stolen. our game was taken away by $OE so they could try and get more 13 year olds. we don't like the nge and we never will. anyone that likes the nge is a dumb useless fanboi who needs to to go.

and again we have won i will get around to posting screen shots i took with a friends acc that show the bria, bloodfin and starsider servers with no one on at primetime.

(dropped the second, extraneous "to")

And this comment, right here, is exactly why many who actively continue to play the game don't have much respect for the people who post here.

"anyone that likes the nge" -- what does this mean? Does this mean people who currently play? You're painting with quite a broad brush.

"is a dumb useless fanboi" -- As useless as spending much of one's free time posting on an MMORPG board about a game that, for them, ostensibly died two years ago?

"who needs to go" -- Go where? Indulge me.

Originally posted by kobie173

 

Originally posted by iwantmyswg

$OE lied and told more lies for years. we got told we would have the curb not the cu and the cu was a bad system that was unbalanced and broken. people quit.

$OE lied more to us and gave is the nge. did we ask for the nge did we want it? no we did not we told them even back after the cu came out to roll the game back. and we still tell them to roll the game back.

see fanbois you come here and insult those that really do care about the game. we have every right to be upset our game got stolen. our game was taken away by $OE so they could try and get more 13 year olds. we don't like the nge and we never will. anyone that likes the nge is a dumb useless fanboi who needs to to go.

and again we have won i will get around to posting screen shots i took with a friends acc that show the bria, bloodfin and starsider servers with no one on at primetime.

"anyone that likes the nge is a dumb useless fanboi who needs to go"

 

(dropped the second, extraneous "to")

And this comment, right here, is exactly why many who actively continue to play the game don't have much respect for the people who post here.

"anyone that likes the nge" -- what does this mean? Does this mean people who currently play? You're painting with quite a broad brush.

I dont really think that is a very broad brush. If you like the NGE that probably means you are currently playing. Why would you play it if you hate it and why wouldnt you play it if you like it. I dont think it takes any sort of imagination or detective skills to figure that part out.

"is a dumb useless fanboi" -- As useless as spending much of one's free time posting on an MMORPG board about a game that, for them, ostensibly died two years ago?

This right here is just a statement made of ignorance. Why he would think that anyone who likes the NGE is dumb is beyond any kind of rational thought. He obviously has problems accepting the fact that people have different tastes and preferences.

"who needs to go" -- Go where? Indulge me.

I cant help you here sorry.