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I prefer a system whereby there are dedicated crafters who need resources gathered while adventuring to make the goods which are in turn needed by the adventurers.

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This is exactly the sort of system that I would like to see in a more open-ended, simulation-type game (AKA a game more like EverQuest II, with little driving purpose, as opposed to WAR, which is driven by realm warfare). I never played SWG, though I have heard from many people that, as you mentioned, it had a system somewhat like this. I just never liked science-fiction settings as much as high fantasy, so I kept my distance.

I think a forthcoming game could use a dedicated crafting system to great effect, and it would be a strong reason to include a truly deep and gratifying crafting experience; one where the craftsman's skill affected quality, one where they could influence the economy and change the market, one where people sought out their goods specifically, and one where their dedication was rewarded with discovering how to create unique and powerful items, or ways to modify and enhance existing ones. No game I have ever played has had anything like that - most are just like it is in WoW: you gather some resources, you buy/quest a recipe, click "Create", and that is that. That, to me, is not really crafting, it is just a roundabout way of getting loot that includes lots of wasted money and time.

A problem in most games is that crafting competes directly with raiding/questing, but it does not have to be so. You could devise a system where crafted goods are for completely different purposes and thus do not need to worry about taking a back seat to raid loot. Or, simply make it so raid loot is required to make some of the crafted items, which is done in some games already, I suppose. Also, saturation of the market after the frontrunners cash in on new crafted goods is always a concern, too.

I would love to play a game where there was deep crafting, though, even if I did not partake in it, simply because my fellow guild members could, and it could be a synergistic relationship that would be rather fun. Who knows - if crafting was actually interesting and complex enough, I might actually like it and make a craftsman in addition to an adventuring character.

But, as it stands, I do not relish the shallow grind of what MMORPGs currently call crafting, and I hardly think EA Mythic will blow us away. Then again, perhaps their silence means they are concealing some innovation, but even if that is true, I doubt it will be something amazingly complex; at best, it will be something interesting and fun, which is good enough for me.

P.S. I think Age of Conan would have been the perfect game to have an amazing crafting system, due to guild cities and guild warfare and such (fight over resources, outfit your city's soldiers, etc.). Unfortunately, it is looking to be quite shallow, though I never had much interest in the game anyway, so it is all moot to me.

Originally posted by Taliasin
From the WAR webpage: "Engineer Specialty The only thing more deadly than a simple bomb is a complicated one, or at least that's the way an Engineer sees things. Using nothing more than the odds and ends they have at hand, Engineers can create a broad variety of useful objects with various purposes and functions. Some of them are even safe enough to give to others. From grenades of various types to mechanical weapon upgrades, the engineer and his allies can use these devices to significantly enhance or supplement their own combat power." A crafter that fights on the front lines as well as giving supplies to others.

Look there is crafting, we dont know what it is.  It will NOT be deep like SWG so just everyone in love with crafting sink that into your brains.   All the classes are SET for the game and not one of them is "Weapons Smith"   Crafting will be a side game mechanic that while some may make it the only thing they do MOST will not so a deep immersive focus on crafting is pretty much so far down on the list its basically not important.   This isn't World of WarhammerCraft  its Warhammer.  There's no need for player homes, there's no real need for guild houses, there's no need for farming, fishing, tailoring, animal herding etc etc. 

Whatever crafting is in the game will have to fit with the Races or honestly it would just stick out like a sore thumb.  Orcs & GOblins should  forge their weapons out of scrap from the battle, Dwarves atleast live in mountains, Humans have mountains & trees, Chaos? Body parts off the enemy.    We dont know how crafting works but im guessing their revolutionary system is only revolutionary because it keeps it Unique across the races according to the IP.  Does that make it deep? Probably not, hell I hope not..we need everyone we can out on the battlefied taking over territory.  

If you want to play House & Crafter there's UO, EQ2, Eve, and more.   Not every game has to cater to you or give into you.     Infact games that keep things within the scope of their original design tend to work better.  Being an Armor Crafter is NOT within the scope.   Its just a side bit being put in so there are some downtime activites.   They don't want economy & gold farming issues so you have to pretty much expect crafting to NOT be totally depended on.  Games like Eve where its all about politics, economy, & industry have the dire need for crafter classes, WAR is not that sort of game.  

If you want to farm, herd animals, tailor, make furniture there are TONS of games for you.  Not every game has to clone every damn aspect of all the games out there.  This isn't sandbox, this isn't SWG, this isn't EQ, this is Warhammer.   

WAAGH!

Housing:  Dont expect that for a long while, I'd say 1st expansion a earliest. 

Crafting:  Will probably be rather good.  Still isn't in beta afaik though.

Originally posted by elvenangel

 

Originally posted by Taliasin
From the WAR webpage: "Engineer Specialty The only thing more deadly than a simple bomb is a complicated one, or at least that's the way an Engineer sees things. Using nothing more than the odds and ends they have at hand, Engineers can create a broad variety of useful objects with various purposes and functions. Some of them are even safe enough to give to others. From grenades of various types to mechanical weapon upgrades, the engineer and his allies can use these devices to significantly enhance or supplement their own combat power." A crafter that fights on the front lines as well as giving supplies to others.

And they are the ONLY class in the entire game that does this.   All the other classes in warhammer are straight up battlefront classes.  

 

Look there is crafting, we dont know what it is.  It will NOT be deep like SWG so just everyone in love with crafting sink that into your brains.   All the classes are SET for the game and not one of them is "Weapons Smith"   Crafting will be a side game mechanic that while some may make it the only thing they do MOST will not so a deep immersive focus on crafting is pretty much so far down on the list its basically not important.   This isn't World of WarhammerCraft  its Warhammer.  There's no need for player homes, there's no real need for guild houses, there's no need for farming, fishing, tailoring, animal herding etc etc. 

Whatever crafting is in the game will have to fit with the Races or honestly it would just stick out like a sore thumb.  Orcs & GOblins should  forge their weapons out of scrap from the battle, Dwarves atleast live in mountains, Humans have mountains & trees, Chaos? Body parts off the enemy.    We dont know how crafting works but im guessing their revolutionary system is only revolutionary because it keeps it Unique across the races according to the IP.  Does that make it deep? Probably not, hell I hope not..we need everyone we can out on the battlefied taking over territory.  

If you want to play House & Crafter there's UO, EQ2, Eve, and more.   Not every game has to cater to you or give into you.     Infact games that keep things within the scope of their original design tend to work better.  Being an Armor Crafter is NOT within the scope.   Its just a side bit being put in so there are some downtime activites.   They don't want economy & gold farming issues so you have to pretty much expect crafting to NOT be totally depended on.  Games like Eve where its all about politics, economy, & industry have the dire need for crafter classes, WAR is not that sort of game.  

If you want to farm, herd animals, tailor, make furniture there are TONS of games for you.  Not every game has to clone every damn aspect of all the games out there.  This isn't sandbox, this isn't SWG, this isn't EQ, this is Warhammer.   

 

WAAGH!

yes because in Warhammer lore there were no crafters, no cities which people lived in, no furniture, no homes, no weapons / armor / food / consumables were made...they all magically dropped from the belly of a wolf or a bird

Originally posted by miagisan

Originally posted by elvenangel

 

Originally posted by Taliasin
From the WAR webpage: "Engineer Specialty The only thing more deadly than a simple bomb is a complicated one, or at least that's the way an Engineer sees things. Using nothing more than the odds and ends they have at hand, Engineers can create a broad variety of useful objects with various purposes and functions. Some of them are even safe enough to give to others. From grenades of various types to mechanical weapon upgrades, the engineer and his allies can use these devices to significantly enhance or supplement their own combat power." A crafter that fights on the front lines as well as giving supplies to others.

And they are the ONLY class in the entire game that does this.   All the other classes in warhammer are straight up battlefront classes.  

 

Look there is crafting, we dont know what it is.  It will NOT be deep like SWG so just everyone in love with crafting sink that into your brains.   All the classes are SET for the game and not one of them is "Weapons Smith"   Crafting will be a side game mechanic that while some may make it the only thing they do MOST will not so a deep immersive focus on crafting is pretty much so far down on the list its basically not important.   This isn't World of WarhammerCraft  its Warhammer.  There's no need for player homes, there's no real need for guild houses, there's no need for farming, fishing, tailoring, animal herding etc etc. 

Whatever crafting is in the game will have to fit with the Races or honestly it would just stick out like a sore thumb.  Orcs & GOblins should  forge their weapons out of scrap from the battle, Dwarves atleast live in mountains, Humans have mountains & trees, Chaos? Body parts off the enemy.    We dont know how crafting works but im guessing their revolutionary system is only revolutionary because it keeps it Unique across the races according to the IP.  Does that make it deep? Probably not, hell I hope not..we need everyone we can out on the battlefied taking over territory.  

If you want to play House & Crafter there's UO, EQ2, Eve, and more.   Not every game has to cater to you or give into you.     Infact games that keep things within the scope of their original design tend to work better.  Being an Armor Crafter is NOT within the scope.   Its just a side bit being put in so there are some downtime activites.   They don't want economy & gold farming issues so you have to pretty much expect crafting to NOT be totally depended on.  Games like Eve where its all about politics, economy, & industry have the dire need for crafter classes, WAR is not that sort of game.  

If you want to farm, herd animals, tailor, make furniture there are TONS of games for you.  Not every game has to clone every damn aspect of all the games out there.  This isn't sandbox, this isn't SWG, this isn't EQ, this is Warhammer.   

 

WAAGH!

yes because in Warhammer lore there were no crafters, no cities which people lived in, no furniture, no homes, no weapons / armor / food / consumables were made...they all magically dropped from the belly of a wolf or a bird

Since you brought up lore. It's the age of reckoning, it's all out total war on all fronts. The empire, Dwarfs and HEs are close to annihilation unless they amass huge armies to repel the vast armies of destruction. You are play an elite warrior in one of those armies. Don't you think they need those elites at the front instead of running around in the city baking bread or making a kite?

yes but where / who made those weapons for them...the peasents and non elite warriors who were not on the frontlines. Every army has a place to get the weapons from.

tons of depth.. i'd imagine the same depth as wow to stay competitive...

Originally posted by elvenangel

 

This isn't World of WarhammerCraft  its Warhammer.  There's no need for player homes, there's no real need for guild houses, there's no need for farming, fishing, tailoring, animal herding etc etc. 

If you don't want to craft, then don't, but don't try to tell me that this game should have less content. I want more and better content than other games, and thankfully it seems the devs agree.

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but don't try to tell me that this game should have less content.

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Actually, one of the largest problems with any project, from games to construction to art to literature, is trying to do too much and thus losing sight of the initial goals.

Often, it is better to decide what you want to do, why you want to do it, and how you can make that the best you can, and then just doing that instead of worrying about what you are not doing. If you start adding in other things for the sake of doing more, you can ruin everything. I think that Vanguard is a perfect example of an MMORPG that did that. They wanted revolutionary everything, and ended up with a pile of poo by most accounts. Had Sigil decided to focus on a couple things instead of trying to reinvent the whole PvE MMORPG genre in one fell swoop, things would have gone better.

This is not me protesting crafting being in WAR, but rather me saying that it is false that less content is automatically bad and undesirable. I think most players would agree they would rather have 500 hours of great content rather than 700 hours of so-so content because some ancillary features got tacked on and developed instead of the core game.

I hope that EA Mythic follows their plan to have the best PvE/RvR MMORPG ever and focuses entirely on what would make that happen. In my opinion, crafting should be pretty low on the list, because I really fail to see how it helps the vision they have laid out; all I see is how it helps a certain type of player, but that is not the issue.

At this point I do not believe housing is likely for WAR.  If it happens in the future I'd suspect that it would be instanced.  I also believe that the crafting system will be similiar to WoW with a little more depth.

My wife and I are very excited about WAR, but after watching a few videos and reading a few reviews we are extremely disappointed in the lame crafting system. There are many people who prefer crafting over fighting (and they still want to play WAR and I know EA wants their money) and others like myself who like it equal to fighting and exploring.

There are many ways to make a crafting system that doesn't flood the market with 100's of apprentice robes or crude short swords. You need to have a bit of a grind, rare material drops via harvesting and rare recipies via quests, and mob drops. Make each item take several compoents and the components can either be used to level up or for use in a major item.  I liked a lot of the elements of Vanguard's crafting system however the grind was far too slow. Also BOE will prevent market flooding.

Just as there is a grind needed for normal level advancement so is there needed somewhat of a grind, of some sort, for crafting. If there is no toil then breaking the ribbon at the finish line won't seen as glorious. I really hope they change or add to their crafting system. 

Originally posted by marzguitarz

My wife and I are very excited about WAR, but after watching a few videos and reading a few reviews we are extremely disappointed in the lame crafting system. There are many people who prefer crafting over fighting (and they still want to play WAR and I know EA wants their money) and others like myself who like it equal to fighting and exploring.

There are many ways to make a crafting system that doesn't flood the market with 100's of apprentice robes or crude short swords. You need to have a bit of a grind, rare material drops via harvesting and rare recipies via quests, and mob drops. Make each item take several compoents and the components can either be used to level up or for use in a major item.  I liked a lot of the elements of Vanguard's crafting system however the grind was far too slow. Also BOE will prevent market flooding.

Just as there is a grind needed for normal level advancement so is there needed somewhat of a grind, of some sort, for crafting. If there is no toil then breaking the ribbon at the finish line won't seen as glorious. I really hope they change or add to their crafting system. 

Sorry this game probably isn't for you? 

they should make it abit like Eq2, u load into another world, where u load it with otehr players and meet them there. Big field with houses may be :-)

This is not crafthammer online as it has been stated many times. there is going to be a craft system, but its not gonna be special at all. tbh i have never been a fan of crafting, and i really like the system they have made for WAR at this point. its gonna be simple, and when you make potions, there is no real "click" recipi for items, you have to spend time yourself to discover them :) so its gonna be simple, but it will still have just enough depth to have alot of people spending time creating new, hopefully usefull potions and charms etc.

and one thing i really like is, that you can make extremly powerfull potions that dosnt last for long (usefull in rvr) without spending hours getting the materials. and same goes for pve, long lasting potions that dosnt boost you as much, so pve encounters dosnt come down to "we cant do it without everyone fully potted up!"

I am going to try it but you may be correct. It's a shame as the vast majority of gammers I know feel as I do. Warhammer looks like it is going to be full of youth pvp players.  Alas, the need for a good MMO

I bet the devs and EA want all MMO lovers to come to WAR.