Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

 

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

JUST SO YALL KNOW, Communism is an economic system not REALLY a political one. ALTHOUGH they might call us Capitalists with the same connotation. What they suffer from is a combination of a Dictatorship which Communism creates.

Just quoting my Political Science Professor.  Crying communist (and I am guilty of it myself) is fine IMO as long as you understand what your saying.

/check under bed for communists.

 

Go read your books or attend Political 101.

 

Communism is a means of distributing ownership within a territory, when it comes to politics.  In its ideal form Communism is a stateless ideology, which renounces government.  Communist economics as seen in Russia and China before 1974 means central planning of major (and that means only a certain number of) goods.  Communism is not just ONE thing.  It depends on context.

Technically, China today is totally non-communist, apart from the name of the ruling party.  As for your Political Science Professor, sigh ... enough said.

I assume you are a Doctor of Political Science then?

Who I am is not a matter of concern, what reason I am trying to present matters.  What I am trying to present is basically the first line of text from every Political Science 101 course on "isms".

I'm just sayin, Im probably gonna believe the guy with a Phd. If you have one in poly sci, then I could take your argument to him with a little more standing rather than just saying " this dude on this MMO blog I subscribe to says your wrong". See the difference?

 

I'm TRULY not being combative. My response sounded less so in my head, LOL. When I said that I fully expected you to say "Yes I teach at the University of fillintheblank".

For EVERYONE out there, (who cares) If I ever sound rude or disrespectful I'm really not meaning to be.

Feed me your views, and understand that at the end of the day, we can all understand each other and still disagree.  With no less respect of each other.

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

 

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

Originally posted by Cpt.Stubbing

JUST SO YALL KNOW, Communism is an economic system not REALLY a political one. ALTHOUGH they might call us Capitalists with the same connotation. What they suffer from is a combination of a Dictatorship which Communism creates.

Just quoting my Political Science Professor.  Crying communist (and I am guilty of it myself) is fine IMO as long as you understand what your saying.

/check under bed for communists.

 

Go read your books or attend Political 101.

 

Communism is a means of distributing ownership within a territory, when it comes to politics.  In its ideal form Communism is a stateless ideology, which renounces government.  Communist economics as seen in Russia and China before 1974 means central planning of major (and that means only a certain number of) goods.  Communism is not just ONE thing.  It depends on context.

Technically, China today is totally non-communist, apart from the name of the ruling party.  As for your Political Science Professor, sigh ... enough said.

I assume you are a Doctor of Political Science then?

Who I am is not a matter of concern, what reason I am trying to present matters.  What I am trying to present is basically the first line of text from every Political Science 101 course on "isms".

I'm just sayin, Im probably gonna believe the guy with a Phd. If you have one in poly sci, then I could take your argument to him with a little more standing rather than just saying " this dude on this MMO blog I subscribe to says your wrong". See the difference?

 

I'm TRULY not being combative. My response sounded less so in my head, LOL. When I said that I fully expected you to say "Yes I teach at the University of fillintheblank".

For EVERYONE out there, (who cares) If I ever sound rude or disrespectful I'm really not meaning to be.

No problem my friend.  We all know that discussions about "ism"s are always heated arguments.  In the days we study comparative economic systems (27 years ago), our department head (a guy from capitalist USA) and our subject professor (a chinese from Taiwan) accused each other everyday, and we as students watched amazed.  Lol, in comparison our discussions here are super mild and friendly.

 

Feed me your views, and understand that at the end of the day, we can all understand each other and still disagree.  With no less respect of each other.

I'll be the first to say, I don't know everything. My profession deals more with the 4th amendment than foreign policy lol. Thats why, on an intellectual basis, to bring all this to someone smarter than I am. In fact in his class this will probably get me extra credit points so in advance, Thank You for the help in earning an "A" hopefully ROFL.

Thank you all, I'm happy to see a mature debate here since my last post :)

On the issue of mandatory service in the Armed forces, it is possible that all males could be pressed into service for 1 to 2 years at the age of 18, but I actually believe it's not mandatory, merely preferred. It goes a long way to getting that poor kid from the back streets into a better standard of life to provide for his aging family. Though there are many countries around that do practice this, including some in Europe, though information is not accurate on this subject these days as governments are reducing the time or abolishing the trend as armies become less important to them, it's not like invasion is a real threat to any democratic country these days outside of Africa and the Middle East.

The issue with gold sellers are at the moment they are a legit business in China, though the standards of work are similiar to most of the dodgy internet cafes the government is actively going after, so we could see a few of them get closed down. But they are at most resellers, merely collecting the gold and selling it onto larger front companies from North America and Europe. If a game publisher says that trading of currency and virtual goods is illegal in their game then I think the governments and legal establishments involved should act against these gold sellers and fine/jail them for it.

From what I can see, it's possible if current trends continue in China that Blizzard for example could apply to the legal establishment in China to deal with groups of gold farmers and we would see action. However that doesn't solve the problem as the American or European company that was paying them will just find someone else to do it instead.

Now I don't expect anyone to tell me what I can play or for how long to pay it, cause I'm an adult, but children are already regulated in what they can play with the age rating systems in our countries, they just aren't regulated on how long. So yes, somethings that China is doing I wouldn't like to see replicated in the west, but others, like cracking down on an industry that thinks it can get away with anything, I would like to see. I'm tired of companies releasing buggy games, I'm tired of false advertising, so much hype and they never deliver, I'm tired of having to have crap customer service and unknown costs. Price fixing is illegal in almost every industry I know of, expect online gaming! Why are MMO companies allowed to get away with so much crap, just because people want to play games, that's not right.

Naturally everyone has their own opinion and I don't expect everyone to agree with me on how things should be improved, but no one can deny that things must be improved. A fear that the government getting involved would be against the constitution, due to breaking our freedoms, well isn't forcing us to have substandard products already infringing on our rights?

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by popinjay

lol.. the article says they (the Chinese) regard online gaming as "spritual opium" .

Then why dont they arrest all those goldsellers and botters for being "Spiritual drug dealers" and execute them all like they do with real drug dealers?

One bullet. One less goldseller. I'm for that plan.

I support this idea.

That sounds racial discriminant.

 

While it is true that online farmers are often times Chinese kids hired, they work like slaves, being paid a few dollars a day, if they got the assignment done.  The owners of these farmer companies are not necessarily chinese, nor are they necessarily inside china.  The most famous case being an Italian and an American mid aged white male, caught in HK owning a US$1M+ monthly turnover farming company, hiring Chinese kids via online recruitment.  RMT sites accept VISA, AE, Paypal or whatever the most advanced electronic payment methods.  They do not look like illegal companies hiding inside a Chinese village.  More likely they are your neighbor offices in New York or London, formally registered business in the west with VISA, AE approval and formal Paypal, Western Union or whatever else accounts.

One bullet, one less goldseller, you play too many counterstrike.  Since when goldselling is a death offense?  How about one bullet, one less troll on MMORPG?

Cut the "racial discrimination" crap. The Chinese call it "spiritual opium" according to the article. A response was made regarding that specific statement, saying if online games are opium, then item/goldsellers are drug (opium ) dealers, not saying that only Chinese are goldfarmers/sellers. It's called "dark humor", not racism. A political thread is bad enough, don't start throwing racial BS into the mix.

Is it a racial thing to you that I refuse to buy any product made in China now, especially toys and dog food ( with Chinese-provided wheat gluten ) because I don't feel like seeing my kid or animals get hurt from bullshit products from a supposedly regulated industry in that country?

Or maybe I should bring up how China is the most notorious country for illegal software sales? Or that they can't even pay to have a Disneyland, they just copy it down to the last little flag, and then say "That's not a mouse, that's a dog with round ears" when Disney makes a stink?

And the real troll is someone who tries to make a racial issue where there is none to stir shit up. So, perhaps a mirror is in order?

Originally posted by Zorvan

Cut the "racial discrimination" crap. The Chinese call it "spiritual opium" according to the article. A response was made regarding that specific statement, saying if online games are opium, then item/goldsellers are drug (opium ) dealers, not saying that only Chinese are goldfarmers/sellers. It's called "dark humor", not racism. A political thread is bad enough, don't start throwing racial BS into the mix.

Is it a racial thing to you that I refuse to buy any product made in China now, especially toys and dog food ( with Chinese-provided wheat gluten ) because I don't feel like seeing my kid or animals get hurt from bullshit products from a supposedly regulated industry in that country?

Or maybe I should bring up how China is the most notorious country for illegal software sales? Or that they can't even pay to have a Disneyland, they just copy it down to the last little flag, and then say "That's not a mouse, that's a dog with round ears" when Disney makes a stink?

And the real troll is someone who tries to make a racial issue where there is none to stir shit up. So, perhaps a mirror is in order?

Disneyland thing can be explained, if Disney wish to open a theme park in China they would have to license the rights to a Chinese company because Chinese law dictates that non-Chinese companies are not allowed to operate in mainland China and are not allowed to own more than 5% of a Chinese company. A law, which I think is rotten, but it is there none the less. As for them copying it, well guess someone really really wanted Disneyland ;)

This isn't anything new though, it's happened in many Asian countries over the last three decades. We can all speculate on why people are so against it happening in China, but I think, this definitely strays too far from not only the point of the thread, but also the site in general.

As far as gaming goes, PC Gaming, as the console market doesn't exist in mainland China (of note it doesn't exist in Russia either), the only influence they have on us is being cheap labor for western gold sellers, that is not their fault. In my time as a GM, I tracked down farmers to China, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, Indonesia, Germany, The Netherlands and USA. These were farmers, not the sites that sold the gold, most of those were US companies. The problem is rife and requires more than just GMs and publishers to counter it, it requires some kind of legal power to stop the power pulling the strings. Cut of the head and the body dies.

New Opium war incoming?  China gets addicted to something from a foreign exporter, government attempts to stop it, they fail, war, loss of war.

Holy fact sheet, Batman!

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

My best guess is that "selective compulsory" service means that most males have to serve unless their family has the right connections.  Kind of like when the U.S. had the draft.

Originally posted by Hexxeity

Holy fact sheet, Batman!

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

My best guess is that "selective compulsory" service means that most males have to serve unless their family has the right connections.  Kind of like when the U.S. had the draft.

Thats a great site, Thanks for the link. That will help me out alot in the coming semester LOL. For that I feel I must pay you back and save you $9. Don't go see Cloverfield. I know I know, I'm a freakin SAINT now but, I feel you earned it.

Seriously though, there is lots of good info on that site not just China. For instance it has info about HIV/AIDS for all those countries too. Im an HIV/AIDS peer educator and the will be nice to have that info up to date and easy to find. (For those who don't know: HIV peer educator is a separate voluntary class where you learn about STDs of all sorts and you go teach groups of people like older boyscouts OR first-aid classes etc; about them) AND like Mexican Independence Day is Sep. 16, not May 5th. WHO KNEW? (J/K)

P.S.

It also has when the site was updated right at the top, which is a big deal to have for my profs anyway.

and the whole industry is marginalized by mainstream society

trust me, i worked in Shanghai for a few months and the young 20-somethings there don't give a rat's ass what mainstream society OR the government thinks.  Yeah they keep it on the down low so as not to get in trouble but the kids there are about as Western in ther attitudes and values as anyone you'll meet in NY, LA, or any major city in the US, UK or W. Europe. 

I dont think Orthedos got my "joke" Zorvan. I think ill have to label the jokes for people sometimes, especially when they are as tight as he is about this issue.

I also dunno how he saw "racial discrimant" in that. But I didnt respond as he surely missed it. Its sad though how fast people pull the race card nowadays, and issues get so far from the original posting.

Sometimes, people just need to  B R E A T H E. Try it Orthedos :)

(that was a joke)

Originally posted by Flummoxed

and the whole industry is marginalized by mainstream society

trust me, i worked in Shanghai for a few months and the young 20-somethings there don't give a rat's ass what mainstream society OR the government thinks.  Yeah they keep it on the down low so as not to get in trouble but the kids there are about as Western in ther attitudes and values as anyone you'll meet in NY, LA, or any major city in the US, UK or W. Europe. 

Sure a kid can be flogging a box of pirated console games, but he's very polite about it.

Sharing a bit of information, since I am Chinese myself. I'm currently in the U.S.

The government have already tried to regulate the MMO industry. This may be a bit hard for others to grasp, but China is trying to maintain its old ideals towards ..everything, but especially education.

MMORPG is one of the most ...shall we say distracting? things in regards to education. The Chinese government have already placed in a system known as "Fang Chen Mi," or literally "Anti-addiction." but it doesn't quite work well.

How the system works is that it requires the players to register using a Chinese Social Security ID, and it limits the numbers of hours a non-mature (person under 18) they can spend per day. On the game I played for a while, Demi-Gods and Semi Devils (Based on a Kungfu novel by Louis Cha), a minor is limited to 3 hours per day before EXP is cut in half, up to a maximum of five hours, which then you would be prevented from logging in altogether.

However, the system isn't working. Social Security Generators, in addition to the reluctance of companys to adhere to this standard makes this policy extremely difficult to enforce. Thus, the recent cracking-down to me seems to be more like a last resort than anything.

A point of interest: most of the newer MMORPGs made in China are item mall based, while the older ones with larger followings are based on monthly subscriptions. You can see why some of the companies are so against governmental regulations. 

In my hometown of Harbin, when I visited a few years ago, the owner of a NetCafe sold "Adult IDs" to students who wished to beat the system. =\

Corruption? I think so too. But more importantly, you have to look at where Chinese society is going. Gone were the days of confucian ideals and the stereotyped Asian. The majority now follows "Xiang Qian Kan," or literally "Look forward." This is a pun on "Look to the money."

Family is still valued, Bobfish, but it is disappearing. If I can blame you "Imperalist Capitalist Pigs" or whatever new label they came up with (it was Dog of Imperialism when I left China,) it's the utter devastation and corruption of the Chinese youth.

OH MY GOD. THEY ARE ACTUALLY THINKING FOR THEMSELVES FOR ONCE. THAT IS BAD!!

(Sarcasm should also be dripping off your screen at the moment.)

No, but going back to my point. I think the liberalization of China causes disappearances of traditional values. When I went back to my hometown and visited my old elementary school, every single child there told me they wanted to make money. Every. Single. One.

China, in my humble opinion has ceased to be a "communist" society. Its market mechanism lacks monitoring as China gets cheated out of taxes (if you look at Chinese News, you'll see a ton of stuff like this), its society leans towards a one-party dictatorship with succession among party lines, and civil rights is really nonexistant. 

I should know. I know people who got banned from MMOs because they were discussing politics. Isn't it nice how if we were in China right now the JFJ would be at your doors with a warrant of arrest now?

I read the article with mixed feelings. I am Chinese by ethnicity. I identify myself as American. I....

Aw, hell. Well. It's about damn time they did SOMETHING about it. My cousin's addicted to one of those himself.

Originally posted by Hexxeity

P.S.  Yes, all men do have to serve in the military when they turn 18, but for how long I do not know.

much as they do in some scandinavian and european countries as in national service

Originally posted by streea

bobfish, the problem is that the other countries you mentioned (US/EU) are not communistic or dictatorships. In other words, the government does not control our lives. THIS IS A GOOD THING.

if you believe that the government doesn't control our lives in the west you need to have a little bit of a wake up call. It amazes me how people can spout about the evils of other countries when they dont actually know what the reality of living in them is like regardless of what their local 'accepted authorities' on the subjects say while of course living 100s of miles away from the problem... and not seeing the equivalent on their own doorstep.

Mass projection (in a psychological sense) if u ask me...always better to see the demon/shadow elsewhere rather than in your own home

Originally posted by Raistlin25

Sharing a bit of information, since I am Chinese myself. I'm currently in the U.S.

The government have already tried to regulate the MMO industry. This may be a bit hard for others to grasp, but China is trying to maintain its old ideals towards ..everything, but especially education.

MMORPG is one of the most ...shall we say distracting? things in regards to education. The Chinese government have already placed in a system known as "Fang Chen Mi," or literally "Anti-addiction." but it doesn't quite work well.

How the system works is that it requires the players to register using a Chinese Social Security ID, and it limits the numbers of hours a non-mature (person under 18) they can spend per day. On the game I played for a while, Demi-Gods and Semi Devils (Based on a Kungfu novel by Louis Cha), a minor is limited to 3 hours per day before EXP is cut in half, up to a maximum of five hours, which then you would be prevented from logging in altogether.

However, the system isn't working. Social Security Generators, in addition to the reluctance of companys to adhere to this standard makes this policy extremely difficult to enforce. Thus, the recent cracking-down to me seems to be more like a last resort than anything.

A point of interest: most of the newer MMORPGs made in China are item mall based, while the older ones with larger followings are based on monthly subscriptions. You can see why some of the companies are so against governmental regulations. 

In my hometown of Harbin, when I visited a few years ago, the owner of a NetCafe sold "Adult IDs" to students who wished to beat the system. =\

Corruption? I think so too. But more importantly, you have to look at where Chinese society is going. Gone were the days of confucian ideals and the stereotyped Asian. The majority now follows "Xiang Qian Kan," or literally "Look forward." This is a pun on "Look to the money."

Family is still valued, Bobfish, but it is disappearing. If I can blame you "Imperalist Capitalist Pigs" or whatever new label they came up with (it was Dog of Imperialism when I left China,) it's the utter devastation and corruption of the Chinese youth.

OH MY GOD. THEY ARE ACTUALLY THINKING FOR THEMSELVES FOR ONCE. THAT IS BAD!!

(Sarcasm should also be dripping off your screen at the moment.)

No, but going back to my point. I think the liberalization of China causes disappearances of traditional values. When I went back to my hometown and visited my old elementary school, every single child there told me they wanted to make money. Every. Single. One.

China, in my humble opinion has ceased to be a "communist" society. Its market mechanism lacks monitoring as China gets cheated out of taxes (if you look at Chinese News, you'll see a ton of stuff like this), its society leans towards a one-party dictatorship with succession among party lines, and civil rights is really nonexistant. 

I should know. I know people who got banned from MMOs because they were discussing politics. Isn't it nice how if we were in China right now the JFJ would be at your doors with a warrant of arrest now?

I read the article with mixed feelings. I am Chinese by ethnicity. I identify myself as American. I....

Aw, hell. Well. It's about damn time they did SOMETHING about it. My cousin's addicted to one of those himself.

thnx for that breath of reality there

:)

thought this was a discussion of chinese regulations, not gold sellers?

and what is the problem with gold sellers anyway?? i bought the game, i made the char, i farmed the gold.. let me do whatever the hell i want with it.. currently i only play wow and on my server the only "problem" is the trade chat spam.. annoying to look at, but i dont see it ruining the game economy.. and if blizz really wanted to handle the "problem" why not just ban all the farming/selling accounts? having to buy new accounts all the time would shurely put em out of bizz in the end.. same thing with BG leechers.. have a gm monitor the BG's just one hour a day and ban the leechers from BG's for a week.. within a month there would be allmost none left im shure.. tbh i dont think blizz care, they just make semi-regulations on theese issues to silence the whiners..

but actually, if i bought 5000g i might be able to buy your world drop epic you couldnt sell before.. and then u can buy something from someone else and so on.. in the end it will make anyone buying/selling stuff richer...

yeah gold farmers are paid crap.. compared to our western standards.. a lot of em make a decent living that way.. it enables em to save up a couple of years and move on to something theyd rather do.. and a lot of em go to a cafe and play on their own account when they get off from work..

now whats really ruining economy (in wow) is S1 gear for honor.. craftable epics is so much harder to sell now.. gj blizz! but nah, lets blame the gold farmers...

Originally posted by Raistlin25

Family is still valued, Bobfish, but it is disappearing. If I can blame you "Imperalist Capitalist Pigs" or whatever new label they came up with (it was Dog of Imperialism when I left China,) it's the utter devastation and corruption of the Chinese youth.

This is a shame in my opinion, it's one of the few developed countries I've been to that has proper values and manners. I am though getting old myself and I guess these values will be lost in all countries eventually.

Originally posted by cobbsie

 

Originally posted by Hexxeity

P.S.  Yes, all men do have to serve in the military when they turn 18, but for how long I do not know.

 

much as they do in some scandinavian and european countries as in national service

 

 

If you continue on the subject of this kind of national service it has in many countries around the world been the spark that creates democracy, that if I and everyone I know is ready to go to war for this country, I want it to be my country.

If the problem is GOLDSELLERS, the solution is DON'T BUY GOLD.

I have never bought any sort of in game item off a vendor outside the game.  I don't ever intend to.  If you want to stop the goldsellers, don't buy the gold.  Simple solution.

Oh, and I know it's impossible to stop.  There are always going to be morons who must have a billion gold or be power leveled to the top.  But if only we could get rid of those idjits... LOL  Anyway, I'll keep doing my part by not buying if you will keep doing your part.

Good Hunting.

Originally posted by bobfish

Originally posted by Raistlin25

Family is still valued, Bobfish, but it is disappearing. If I can blame you "Imperalist Capitalist Pigs" or whatever new label they came up with (it was Dog of Imperialism when I left China,) it's the utter devastation and corruption of the Chinese youth.

This is a shame in my opinion, it's one of the few developed countries I've been to that has proper values and manners. I am though getting old myself and I guess these values will be lost in all countries eventually.

I've read some conflicting opinions over it in this thread, and I really did enjoy the debate - intensity is always good.

Here's a question to toss out at y'all though: Nowadays, we go OMFGHAXX!! at any attempt to regulate the internet. But if you think about it, shouldn't there be ...rules? I mean, I see a fine balance between Warden and Spyware, but shouldn't there be regulations for the player's own protection?