Originally posted by Dyng-Johan

 

Originally posted by HJ-Naught

 

I know it's frustrating. I want to play HJ as much as anyone. What I will tell you is that the game is coming along faster than I expected. Big parts of the game are being finalized and we're moving steadily forward. Dang this vague PR-speak, but it's true.

I'm sorry to say this, but you sound pretty much as all GM's has sounded since '05...

 

..I want to believe.. but...

The approach Simu take is spot on and does not pander to the minority, setting false expectations is worse than setting none at all. And anyone who is a realist should realise that.

Simultronics for sure did not have the resources/cash to finish there game IMO there is no doubt of that.Once they sold a few rights of there engine to companies such as bioware they decided to uptake the game once again.I think what has most likely happened is they are trying to work out some glitches in there engine that customers are not happy with.Since the sale of there engine rights is what is keeping them afloat i think it's very likely.

Thing i don't understand is them bragging about REALTIME updating,that is VERY old news as game engines did that 7 years ago,so go figure what they're on about IDK.

IMO there engine will rival the original unreal engine and nothing more,but it's not bad ,it's still about the gameplay anyhow.

I know articles talk about stuff like EA having 100+ staff and these guys barely 50.Ever hear of a company called naughtydog?crash bandicoot ring a bell,these guys started super small and did big things,so you don't need a huge staff to do it.Naughtydog[started by 2 16 yr olds] impressed so much that SOE bought there rights for several years and both sides are very happy.I think simultronics moves to slow as they should have had something out by now ,heck even a workeable demo.Trying to play the big game designing your own engine may be profiteable but man alive has to eat up tons of cash on a mere hope.I guess so many saw the big cashflow the unreal engine made and that guy from quake/ID and his opengl engine.

Good luck to simultronics as i am sure they could make a decent playable game,but there gonna outdate themselves if they take much longer.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Good luck to simultronics as i am sure they could make a decent playable game,but there gonna outdate themselves if they take much longer.

Honey, all games out date themselves after being around for a month.  True works of art, though, stand a longer test of time.

They promote their engine on the basis that it allows a developer to create content much more quickly than other engines, and yet, they have taken longer on their own game than any I know, and it's nowhere closed to complete, or even beta. I personally find that funny.

I dunno if it's dead or not. I was looking forward to the game as I'm a big fan of their other titles in the past. But right now it doesn't look like anything is happening. They've gone completely dark, haven't even updated the information they've given out previously and their official site still has the release date being last year.

Doesn't exactly bode well for the state of the game. I suspect that others are correct: They've probably shifted focus to the engine again to continue marketting it to other developers and the game is languishing because of it.

Could be wrong. But the total lack of any information from the company, as well as the fact that the projected beta and release dates have come and gone without a word don't exactly inspire confidence that any real work is being done on the game itself right now.

There was a post a couple of weeks ago on their forum by one of the devs. He said that it was an unofficial update, but that the game is not dead and that they are just focussing on working on the game rather than talking about working on it.

Take that for what you will.

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Originally posted by JagerMichael
There was a post a couple of weeks ago on their forum by one of the devs. He said that it was an unofficial update, but that the game is not dead and that they are just focussing on working on the game rather than talking about working on it.
Take that for what you will.

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Hope it's true... But they really aught to update the website, at LEAST take the projected release date off the site, makes them look like a pack of ametures.

Can't argue that.

You'd think they'd atleast mention something about the BioWare MMO using their engine as well.

Originally posted by Taram

 

 

makes them look like a pack of ametures.

Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.

Originally posted by HJ-Diviana

 

Originally posted by Kenorv

 

Originally posted by Kenorv

 

 I'd have much more respect for  a company that it honest with it's customers than one that hides things from them.

Stuff like that makes a company look unprofessional and gives a bad impression to potential customers.

 It may be a cliche but honesty really is the best policy and Simu hasn't been honest with their customers.

 

Go look up the definition of potential. I clearly said potential customers.

 

Not to nitpick or anything...

"I'd have much more respect for a comapny that is honest with it's potential customers than one that hides things from them."

But again, that statement was nothing more than a generalization so I don't see anything wrong with that. That last sentence was simply an omission of "potential." I'll admit that part.

Archaos I'm not going to quote you because that would just make one very long post but I do want to respond.

How about  I change "honest" to something else, say "forthcomming"? Would that make my point clearer? Again, I'm not saying that they're lying about anything just that they haven't been as forthcomming with information as I believe they should be. So perhaps I just used a poor choice of words.

Now to your other points. I've been following this project since 2004 so I know all about the PR that they did way back when. But when you think about it, it seems so long ago that any significant piece of information, interview, chat, etc, has taken place about the game, what is someone that is finding out about the game for the first time, today tomorrow or whenever supposed to think? How are you supposed to build interest in a game or maintain interest in a game that you just found out about when the last major update was months ago or close to a year ago or however long it's been?

I should probably clear something up. I don't have  a problem with them going dark. If they need to do that then fine. Just give everyone a heads up. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't just go dark without saying anything about it. Don't be afraid to tell the public that you have to put the game on hold to work on the engine. Don't be afraid to post on the front page of your website that everyone is busy working on the game and no one has time to post updates. Again, it just goes back to them being  more forthcomming with things.

I still stick by my statement that they weren't fully preprared for this project. It's common knowledge that they put the game on hold to work on and license the game engine. If they had plenty of money when they started this project then they wouldn't have had to do that. If they had enough full time staff then they wouldn't have had to do that. They could have worked on both at the same time if they had enough money and staff. So again, I stick by that comment. They had to put the game on hold to aquire the finances to continue. That's no secret . That's common knowledge.

Now that happened the first time they went dark. They're currently in a second dark period so you can't tell me that you don't at least have some doubt about their current capabilities. I admit, I don't know for sure what their current status is but after they acknowledged the reason for their first dark period but you have to at least wonder if that's not the reason for this current one. If it is then there's no way that they have enough money or staff for this project.

Originally posted by Kenorv

Archaos I'm not going to quote you because that would just make one very long post but I do want to respond.

How about  I change "honest" to something else, say "forthcomming"? Would that make my point clearer? Again, I'm not saying that they're lying about anything just that they haven't been as forthcomming with information as I believe they should be. So perhaps I just used a poor choice of words.

Now to your other points. I've been following this project since 2004 so I know all about the PR that they did way back when. But when you think about it, it seems so long ago that any significant piece of information, interview, chat, etc, has taken place about the game, what is someone that is finding out about the game for the first time, today tomorrow or whenever supposed to think? How are you supposed to build interest in a game or maintain interest in a game that you just found out about when the last major update was months ago or close to a year ago or however long it's been?

I should probably clear something up. I don't have  a problem with them going dark. If they need to do that then fine. Just give everyone a heads up. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't just go dark without saying anything about it. Don't be afraid to tell the public that you have to put the game on hold to work on the engine. Don't be afraid to post on the front page of your website that everyone is busy working on the game and no one has time to post updates. Again, it just goes back to them being  more forthcomming with things.

I still stick by my statement that they weren't fully preprared for this project. It's common knowledge that they put the game on hold to work on and license the game engine. If they had plenty of money when they started this project then they wouldn't have had to do that. If they had enough full time staff then they wouldn't have had to do that. They could have worked on both at the same time if they had enough money and staff. So again, I stick by that comment. They had to put the game on hold to aquire the finances to continue. That's no secret . That's common knowledge.

Now that happened the first time they went dark. They're currently in a second dark period so you can't tell me that you don't at least have some doubt about their current capabilities. I admit, I don't know for sure what their current status is but after they acknowledged the reason for their first dark period but you have to at least wonder if that's not the reason for this current one. If it is then there's no way that they have enough money or staff for this project.

Based on what I believe Simu think then going dark is fine they owe nobody anything, unless you are one of these people who think they are owed for whatever reason. Have a little faith I believe they are creating a content rich and complex MMO. Most people who come to these boards are disallusioned, I am willing to wait and if it never comes out other big players who have licenced HE will release games so either way its a win situation we will get something from Simutronics efforts.

Originally posted by Isane

 

Originally posted by Kenorv

Archaos I'm not going to quote you because that would just make one very long post but I do want to respond.

How about  I change "honest" to something else, say "forthcomming"? Would that make my point clearer? Again, I'm not saying that they're lying about anything just that they haven't been as forthcomming with information as I believe they should be. So perhaps I just used a poor choice of words.

Now to your other points. I've been following this project since 2004 so I know all about the PR that they did way back when. But when you think about it, it seems so long ago that any significant piece of information, interview, chat, etc, has taken place about the game, what is someone that is finding out about the game for the first time, today tomorrow or whenever supposed to think? How are you supposed to build interest in a game or maintain interest in a game that you just found out about when the last major update was months ago or close to a year ago or however long it's been?

I should probably clear something up. I don't have  a problem with them going dark. If they need to do that then fine. Just give everyone a heads up. That was the point I was trying to make. Don't just go dark without saying anything about it. Don't be afraid to tell the public that you have to put the game on hold to work on the engine. Don't be afraid to post on the front page of your website that everyone is busy working on the game and no one has time to post updates. Again, it just goes back to them being  more forthcomming with things.

I still stick by my statement that they weren't fully preprared for this project. It's common knowledge that they put the game on hold to work on and license the game engine. If they had plenty of money when they started this project then they wouldn't have had to do that. If they had enough full time staff then they wouldn't have had to do that. They could have worked on both at the same time if they had enough money and staff. So again, I stick by that comment. They had to put the game on hold to aquire the finances to continue. That's no secret . That's common knowledge.

Now that happened the first time they went dark. They're currently in a second dark period so you can't tell me that you don't at least have some doubt about their current capabilities. I admit, I don't know for sure what their current status is but after they acknowledged the reason for their first dark period but you have to at least wonder if that's not the reason for this current one. If it is then there's no way that they have enough money or staff for this project.

Unlike yourself, I believe that they are takeing the right appproach, I believe thye are of the belief that they have a winner on their hands the game will sell itself compared to the generic rubbish being rolled out at the moment. Playable but rubbish in my opinion.

 

Based on what I believe Simu think then going dark is fine they owe nobody anything, unless you are one of these people who think they are owed for whatever reason. Have a little faith I believe they are creating a content rich and complex MMO. Most people who come to these boards are disallusioned, I am willing to wait and if it never comes out other big players who have licenced HE will release games so either way its a win situation we will get something from Simutronics efforts.

I want this game to come out. I really do. That's why I'm being so harsh on them. I want them to get everything right. Not just the game itself, everything. Unlike their text based games I don't think this game will survive with a small player base. And if they keep doing things to turn people off from the game before it even comes out then it will be difficult for them to build a base that will be able to sustain the game.

If they hadn't released so much info so soon then I wouldn't have such a big deal with them going dark. But when you release as much info as they did as early as they did and then you stop releasing info altogether all of a sudden without any advanced notice and then it comes out later, after they've come back from their first dark period, that they had to put the game on hold to work on the engine so they could license it to aquire more financing, it can't help but raise questions about the status of the game.

Now I don't know if they knew when they started the project that they would have to do that but if they did then I think they would have been better off withholding all of that info they released so early on until after they had finshed licensing the engine. But you have to admit that by building up so much interest early on in development that they set themselves up for some backlash from fans.

There's a reason that you never hear anything from actors, directors, producers etc. when a movie is in production. Because all sorts unexpected events can take place that can lead to major changes, delays and even the cancellation. And if they released so much info so early on like Simu did then fans's expectations would be so high early on only for them to have major letdowns later once they found out about the changes or delays and they may not even want to see the movie at all after they had had so much interest in it so early on. And if the movie was cancelled then fans will have a hard time generating any interest in future movies from that producer.

Simu should have thought of themselves as producers making a movie and not a game development company making an MMO. I think treating HJ as if it were a movie and saving all the important info until it was absolutely necessary to release it to the public was the best way to go.

But that's not what they did. They chose to do a lot of PR about the game very early on. And I think once they decided to do that then they can't just go dark without at the very least announcing why they've decided to go dark. If they would have just made an official announcement that the game needed to be put on hold then at least that way they don't look like they're trying to hide stuff from us about the status of the project. You want to avoid having people speculate about something because usually that speculation is negative. I just think by going about things the way that they have they've allowed a lot of speculation to take place and they would have been better off if they had done everything they could have to avoid it.

I mean people thought for sure that this game was going to come out and it was going to be great when they first heard about it and saw the videos from E3 and read all of the information that came out so early on. But it seems like at least a year ago that anything significant about the game has been made public and now a lot of people aren't sure what to think. You want people to gain interest the closer a game comes to being released, not lose interest. We don't know when the game is being released but we do know that the interest in it right now isn't anywhere near what it was at its peak two years ago. I just think that they could have gone about all of this better, that's all.

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Originally posted by Gules_Aspen

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Originally posted by Taram

 
 
makes them look like a pack of ametures.

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Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.

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Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Gules_Aspen

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Originally posted by Taram

 

 
 
makes them look like a pack of ametures.

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Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.

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Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.

Yep, since 1987.  Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.

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Originally posted by Cemm

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Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Gules_Aspen

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Originally posted by Taram
 
 
 
makes them look like a pack of ametures.

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Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.

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Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.

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Yep, since 1987.  Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.

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Actually the games are developed by paid staff. Volunteers produce additional content using in and out of game tools for the game. Get your facts straight please.

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Cemm

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Originally posted by Taram

 

 

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Originally posted by Gules_Aspen

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Originally posted by Taram
 
 
 
makes them look like a pack of ametures.

 

 

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Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.

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Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.

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Yep, since 1987.  Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.

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Actually the games are developed by paid staff. Volunteers produce additional content using in and out of game tools for the game. Get your facts straight please.

When I say pittance, I mean something you couldn't possibly live comfortably on in the United States as a single source of income, and that is for an amount of hours that is easily a second full time job (40 hours) for a lot of these volunteers.

Further, the text-based games Simutronics currently fields are absolutely developed by these volunteer staffers from home.  All the major core systems (combat, magic, stealth, etc.), related mechanics upgrades, new areas to adventure in, room painting, and similar that constitutes developing/expanding/refining the existing games are created and implemented by these remote staffers. 

There is obviously a paid staff of Simutronics employees working in the St. Louis office, but it is mostly administrators, support staff, and technical support to keep the ship afloat.  The actual development of the meat of the games (from major system design to room painting) themselves is tackled from afar by people with first priority full time day jobs that pay the bills so they can enjoy the hobby a lot of them are extremely passionate about.

To an outsider it may seem incomprehensible as a business model, but it has mostly worked out for Simutronics for years and years now.  I only say mostly because there have been numerous occasions where gamemaster burn out and other issues has led to extended delays or even cancellation of promised features.  It is something you just grow accustomed to as a Simutronics subscriber, that whole joke about "Simu Soon" and the reality of what that usually means.

It is just part of the risk of relying on a volunteer workforce to develop your games though.  For example, the Necromancer Guild in DragonRealms was supposedly in development years ago.  The gamemaster in charge was a previously well known hotshot as far as churning things out but apparently eventually hit the burn out zone a lot of them do after a few years on staff.  So that was dead in the water for years.  Now another group of gamemasters has picked it up and it is apparently about to finally get launched as a new guild in the game.

I'm really not intending to knock on Simutronics or the awesome volunteers who put so much of their time and energy into making their games great here.  I'm actually a huge fan of their games and have been a constant customer/subscriber since 1995.  These are just the realities, and some would say charms just as soon as others might say negatives, of how things have always worked with Simutronics.

I have a hard time believing that, as another tread titlb puts it, the hero will ever make the journey. This, like Darkfall, will most likely disappear into the abyss that is vaporware.

Clearly you don't know Simu. They always deliver. They just don't do it on time, which is why your first month is free.

Originally posted by Draq

Clearly you don't know Simu. They always deliver. They just don't do it on time, which is why your first month is free.

You'll have to try a LOT harder than that to make it believable that a small, half-baked MUD company can successfully complete the jump to modern games.