Originally posted by Ephimero

The basics of Anime are drawings with the minimum ammount of lines possible, cheap and easy to produce in masses, thus why Japan's comic market is so filled with mangas and why there, the style is such a hit. There are some more complex concepts like the number of circles used for the body proportions and for the head being different than the typicall DC comics style, but I guess this isn't the place.

People tend to confuse anime style with oriental style, and in Aion, most of the ornaments used, and some of the available avatars look oriental indeed, this wouldn't be called anime style tho, cause the designs are way more complex.

Anyways, the concept of asian graphics it's getting blurry on mmorpg communities, if you take a granado espada character and compare it to a real life model, you'll see that the proportions are way more accurate than a wow or even Age of Conan ones, face and body wise, so are we starting to confuse realistic with asian? It's obvious that atm, asian market has brought the best graphics to the mmorpg scene, so that's why I wonder.

Btw, I love this issue since i'm professional designer, and i've been pretty inspired by the manga style/learned its basics, so I could keep writting hehe, but I guess it's time to stop.

Unfortunately I, amongst others who I had come to my desk to read your post, do not agree with you on the "asian graphics" part of your post.

Almost every oriental MMO that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amounts of micro-transactions and a quick buck. The simple fact that there is now a catagory for "Asian MMO experience gains" to compare how a game will translate into time vs experience is proof enough. The reason I say this is because anyone will tell you, a game that requires 6months or more to obtain maximum level is a "hardcore" setting shows that the game is question does not have the content to support normal play styles.

The "asian" experience gains found in every single mmo they create are used as "buffers" to keep players interested longer, and give them more incentives to pay micro-transactions to one-up other players.

I've yet to see an "asian" or "oriental" created MMO that has presented graphics that are not already 4-5years old. Or that have not been used/done several times already.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

 

Originally posted by Ephimero

The basics of Anime are drawings with the minimum ammount of lines possible, cheap and easy to produce in masses, thus why Japan's comic market is so filled with mangas and why there, the style is such a hit. There are some more complex concepts like the number of circles used for the body proportions and for the head being different than the typicall DC comics style, but I guess this isn't the place.

People tend to confuse anime style with oriental style, and in Aion, most of the ornaments used, and some of the available avatars look oriental indeed, this wouldn't be called anime style tho, cause the designs are way more complex.

Anyways, the concept of asian graphics it's getting blurry on mmorpg communities, if you take a granado espada character and compare it to a real life model, you'll see that the proportions are way more accurate than a wow or even Age of Conan ones, face and body wise, so are we starting to confuse realistic with asian? It's obvious that atm, asian market has brought the best graphics to the mmorpg scene, so that's why I wonder.

Btw, I love this issue since i'm professional designer, and i've been pretty inspired by the manga style/learned its basics, so I could keep writting hehe, but I guess it's time to stop.

Unfortunately I, amongst others who I had come to my desk to read your post, do not agree with you on the "asian graphics" part of your post.

 

Almost every oriental MMO that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amounts of micro-transactions and a quick buck. The simple fact that there is now a catagory for "Asian MMO experience gains" to compare how a game will translate into time vs experience is proof enough. The reason I say this is because anyone will tell you, a game that requires 6months or more to obtain maximum level is a "hardcore" setting shows that the game is question does not have the content to support normal play styles.

The "asian" experience gains found in every single mmo they create are used as "buffers" to keep players interested longer, and give them more incentives to pay micro-transactions to one-up other players.

I've yet to see an "asian" or "oriental" created MMO that has presented graphics that are not already 4-5years old. Or that have not been used/done several times already.

What do I consider as beating? The detailing, the well placed shadows and lights, the artistic design made 3D, the realism and attempts to make accurate models and proportions, the richness of the enviroments and the places that let you know where you are just by looking at it.

Tell me an occidental  MMORPG beating GE or L2 graphically and ill be sure to check it.

The rest is blabling. I didnt intend to go into if it's hardcore or not by the looks of it and I never thought on prejudices and generalization as good things.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Almost every oriental MMO that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amounts of micro-transactions and a quick buck. The simple fact that there is now a catagory for "Asian MMO experience gains" to compare how a game will translate into time vs experience is proof enough. The reason I say this is because anyone will tell you, a game that requires 6months or more to obtain maximum level is a "hardcore" setting shows that the game is question does not have the content to support normal play styles.

there is not one mmorpg on the market with even close to as realistic characters as aion has them, anime style? you obviously have no clue, next you tell me that vanguard, wow, eq2 or daoc models are more realistic than the ones from aion. they are not, they all suck, bad.

yes aion has an asian feel, yes aion has those weird hair colors like pink (oh wait, western mmorpgs do have those too), so what? it has nothing to do with anime, if you gonna compare it to anything on the asian market then compare it to mangas, the ones that are drawn more realistic than most western comics you've ever seen, like berserk or blade of the immortal, which you of course do not know as you have no clue whatsoever of art/comic/game design but still feel like you can comment on it.

Really well put, I was saving the "dont compare NCsoft with low budget companies" card for a reply, thanks for spoiling it!

Originally posted by zarzu

 

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Almost every oriental MMO that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amounts of micro-transactions and a quick buck. The simple fact that there is now a catagory for "Asian MMO experience gains" to compare how a game will translate into time vs experience is proof enough. The reason I say this is because anyone will tell you, a game that requires 6months or more to obtain maximum level is a "hardcore" setting shows that the game is question does not have the content to support normal play styles.

almost every western mmo that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amount of monthly subscriptions and quick buck. the simple fact that we use the word 'grind' in the mmorpg world is because of early western mmorpgs. the reason you tell us stuff no one wants to know is because the amount of serious asian mmorpgs is ridiculously low compared to the serious western mmorpgs, aion is not a cheap low budget mmorpg that looks like the 200 asian mmorpgs no idiot plays, the fact that those mmorpgs are on the market has nothing to do with how good the quality of serious asian mmorpgs is, but rather with the insane mmorpg boom where everyone wants a piece of. all those games suck and flop within weeks, no intelligent person plays them.

 

 

there is not one mmorpg on the market with even close to as realistic characters as aion has them, anime style? you obviously have no clue, next you tell me that vanguard, wow, eq2 or daoc models are more realistic than the ones from aion. they are not, they all suck, bad.

yes aion has an asian feel, yes aion has those weird hair colors like pink (oh wait, western mmorpgs do have those too), so what? it has nothing to do with anime, if you gonna compare it to anything on the asian market then compare it to mangas, the ones that are drawn more realistic than most western comics you've ever seen, like berserk or blade of the immortal, which you of course do not know as you have no clue whatsoever of art/comic/game design but still feel like you can comment on it.

Err, talk about ramblings. Where were you pulling most of that reply from? Since only like a 1/20th of it was from mine x_x?

I also have to disagree about the "graphics" part of Aion. I've seen screenshots and the movies that were touched up and made to look better with video editing than they really are (the main trailer with all the fighting and facial expressions etc come to mind from this comment). I can literally say what they are trying to accomplish via Aion graphics system is not impressive to me. It's a different kind of "anime-ish" feeling kind of graphics that don't appeal to me or a lot of people I've played with and personally know.

Sorry to burst your bubble :(.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by zarzu

 

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Almost every oriental MMO that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amounts of micro-transactions and a quick buck. The simple fact that there is now a catagory for "Asian MMO experience gains" to compare how a game will translate into time vs experience is proof enough. The reason I say this is because anyone will tell you, a game that requires 6months or more to obtain maximum level is a "hardcore" setting shows that the game is question does not have the content to support normal play styles.

almost every western mmo that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amount of monthly subscriptions and quick buck. the simple fact that we use the word 'grind' in the mmorpg world is because of early western mmorpgs. the reason you tell us stuff no one wants to know is because the amount of serious asian mmorpgs is ridiculously low compared to the serious western mmorpgs, aion is not a cheap low budget mmorpg that looks like the 200 asian mmorpgs no idiot plays, the fact that those mmorpgs are on the market has nothing to do with how good the quality of serious asian mmorpgs is, but rather with the insane mmorpg boom where everyone wants a piece of. all those games suck and flop within weeks, no intelligent person plays them.

 

 

there is not one mmorpg on the market with even close to as realistic characters as aion has them, anime style? you obviously have no clue, next you tell me that vanguard, wow, eq2 or daoc models are more realistic than the ones from aion. they are not, they all suck, bad.

yes aion has an asian feel, yes aion has those weird hair colors like pink (oh wait, western mmorpgs do have those too), so what? it has nothing to do with anime, if you gonna compare it to anything on the asian market then compare it to mangas, the ones that are drawn more realistic than most western comics you've ever seen, like berserk or blade of the immortal, which you of course do not know as you have no clue whatsoever of art/comic/game design but still feel like you can comment on it.

Err, talk about ramblings. Where were you pulling most of that reply from? Since only like a 1/20th of it was from mine x_x?

 

I also have to disagree about the "graphics" part of Aion. I've seen screenshots and the movies that were touched up and made to look better with video editing than they really are (the main trailer with all the fighting and facial expressions etc come to mind from this comment). I can literally say what they are trying to accomplish via Aion graphics system is not impressive to me. It's a different kind of "anime-ish" feeling kind of graphics that don't appeal to me or a lot of people I've played with and personally know.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble :(.

Was it hard to realize that the trailer of the game is made with the game engine with impossible camera points of view and a few modifying? Hell, that trailer was used at GStar in the plasma screens next to the computers where people were playing the game.

People who are replying here have already seen ingame player-made movies, so you're not bursting any bubble, im afraid.

And it's ok if you dont like the graphics of Aion, but dont blame it on anime, dragon ball is an anime, naruto is an anime, aion is a videogame with very detailed enviroment and characters.

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Originally posted by zarzu

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Originally posted by Fadedbomb
Almost every oriental MMO that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amounts of micro-transactions and a quick buck. The simple fact that there is now a catagory for "Asian MMO experience gains" to compare how a game will translate into time vs experience is proof enough. The reason I say this is because anyone will tell you, a game that requires 6months or more to obtain maximum level is a "hardcore" setting shows that the game is question does not have the content to support normal play styles.

---

almost every western mmo that has come out to date are all rush jobs to get it out the door for mass amount of monthly subscriptions and quick buck. the simple fact that we use the word 'grind' in the mmorpg world is because of early western mmorpgs. the reason you tell us stuff no one wants to know is because the amount of serious asian mmorpgs is ridiculously low compared to the serious western mmorpgs, aion is not a cheap low budget mmorpg that looks like the 200 asian mmorpgs no idiot plays, the fact that those mmorpgs are on the market has nothing to do with how good the quality of serious asian mmorpgs is, but rather with the insane mmorpg boom where everyone wants a piece of. all those games suck and flop within weeks, no intelligent person plays them.

there is not one mmorpg on the market with even close to as realistic characters as aion has them, anime style? you obviously have no clue, next you tell me that vanguard, wow, eq2 or daoc models are more realistic than the ones from aion. they are not, they all suck, bad.
yes aion has an asian feel, yes aion has those weird hair colors like pink (oh wait, western mmorpgs do have those too), so what? it has nothing to do with anime, if you gonna compare it to anything on the asian market then compare it to mangas, the ones that are drawn more realistic than most western comics you've ever seen, like berserk or blade of the immortal, which you of course do not know as you have no clue whatsoever of art/comic/game design but still feel like you can comment on it.

---

This is exactly why I didn't want to get into this conversation, but you sir have said what I should have.

I think the fact that this post has turned into a discussion of anime syle and virtue, beyond my wildest dreams, proves my postulate correct, that this game draws in people partial to anime (this game looked like dbz with wings with a bit of advent children mixed in).  I know nothing of true anime, other than the fact that it exists and I know nothing about it. 

I also think this game has some serious potential and I like it's style, just as I respect anime as a form of art.

I bet if they called it anime online, it would draw in a broad base of anime fans, from the very knowledgable, to the cartoon network dbz fans.  BTW if any of you make this game, and make a fortune, I demand a .5% cut!! lol

I like how this game is different, and pushing the limits.  Will it be good?  Idk, we'll have to see how the company manages their investment.

Originally posted by smitty0356

I bet if they called it anime online, it would draw in a broad base of anime fans, from the very knowledgable, to the cartoon network dbz fans.  BTW if any of you make this game, and make a fortune, I demand a .5% cut!! lol

False, your hypothesis fails because even though the asian style of the game reminds one of 'anime' style it is NOT an 'anime' game.  I do agree with you that if someone likes anime there's a good chance they'll like the style of this game, but that's only because they are both from the East.

And that's as far as it goes, as for your other comments you do know something about NCsoft? Because from what you typed it doesn't sound like it. No offense. :p

Do you know that there's a DBZ MMO being developed in Japan?

Anyways... I do not agree that game looks and liking anime has anything to do with each other. I can assure you, there is a large amount of players that like anime in every single MMO. So if what you say is true, every MMO looks like anime.

My first long term MMO was EVE online as I like sci-fi genre. I'm a big fan of shows like Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, SG1 and many more, those ain't anime are they? But I still chose to move on on "Eastern" MMOs like Lineage 2 and RFO. Is it because I watch anime now and then to relax and enjoy my free time? No. It's because game mechanics and features that drew me to check and then play these games. Heck, I even played Maple Story after beta because it had something I liked and was pretty simple thus somewhat relaxing. If you'd want connect a game to anime/cartoons, that'd be one, but hey, what you'd expect a modern 2D MMORPG game to look like?

Cheers.

I was thinking too that if you're going to accuse a company of styling a game after animes it'd more a company like SquareEnix, who has titles that are very 'anime' but NCsoft? Not really... :/

I happend to notice when I was watching the Warhammer trailer it looked like american football (i had to check spelling). I don't think i'll bother to get it now, football isn't my type of thing.

Aion has nothing to do with, nor is it based off any anime. However, the characters in Aion and whatever anime(your choice) are comparable: Many people portray most anime characters as "Pretty, flawless super-models", same could be said for Aion avatars. You can say it has characteristics of anime, but, it's not anime.

In my opinion, "Anime online" sounds like a cheezy title for a online High school-romance/drama-with giant mechas fending off samurai-like-aliens. Then again, I'd prolly buy it.

Originally posted by suu141

Many people portray most anime characters as "Pretty, flawless super-models"

if that is actually true (which i don't hope it is), it's only reason would be that many people lost their brain somewhere on the street.

anime characters are not any more pretty/flawless than western comic characters (apart from maybe villains) they're just drawn in a different art style with a different kind of storytelling.

Originally posted by suu141

However, the characters in Aion and whatever anime(your choice) are comparable:

aion compared to dragonball, yes pretty comparable, i mean the characters have 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes, one nose, one mouth, so i guess they look alike.

on the other hand if i now look at superman it does actually look closer to aion than dragonball, shocking.

the point is that dragonball and superman are not drawn on the same level of abstraction, it's not that simple to compare eastern and western animations.

what really kills me here actually is that people refer to the eastern style as anime, even though anime ist just a shorthand for animation and in the west refers to eastern (mostly japanese) animations and the thing that is most noticeable in animes is not how the characters look like, but how the films are actually made, perspective, extreme use of the same drawings to cut down on production time etc.

if you refer to the drawing style just say manga (even though that has again an emphasis on the storytelling style) or eastern art style, anime is just wrong.

Originally posted by zarzu

Originally posted by suu141

However, the characters in Aion and whatever anime(your choice) are comparable:

 aion compared to dragonball, yes pretty comparable, i mean the characters have 2 legs, 2 arms, 2 eyes, one nose, one mouth, so i guess they look alike.

what really kills me here actually is that people refer to the eastern style as anime, even though anime ist just a shorthand for animation and in the west refers to eastern (mostly japanese) animations and the thing that is most noticeable in animes is not how the characters look like, but how the films are actually made, perspective, extreme use of the same drawings to cut down on production time etc.

if you refer to the drawing style just say manga (even though that has again an emphasis on the storytelling style) or eastern art style, anime is just wrong.

Thanks for stating the obvious, but my comparison of Aion and anime was generally based only on "portrayal"  as "pretty/flawless/super-model". lol I didn't say they necessarily "looked" alike.

Come to think of it, how did anime come into this anyway?

Aion is made by NCSoft, a Korean company. Naturally, Korean artists would want to make most of their characters look "Korean" if not, "Asian". Similarly, western comic artists draws most of their characters western style. If anything, Aion characters look more human than something drawn by cell-paint.

Whereas anime is Japanese manga art made into cell-paint animation. In most cases, characters don't even look human or even "Oriental", the art style only have flawless features of humans, namely super-models.

As with most artists, who wants to make ugly things?

Originally posted by zarzu

on the other hand if i now look at superman it does actually look closer to aion than dragonball, shocking.

the point is that dragonball and superman are not drawn on the same level of abstraction, it's not that simple to compare eastern and western animations.

You're right, Superman would make a better comparison with Aion characters. When Joe Shuster first drew Superman, he made him look like a  normal human. But, The OP's(smitty0356) point of reference was anime.

When I said "your choice" I was hoping you wouldn't use Dragonball Z. lol (Thinks of Kurilin)

Unfortunately, western animators didn't take consideration in the original artist's portrayal of their respective characters and content. They just turned them into children's "cartoons", Bugs Bunny style. Western comics are just that, Western comics, which is slowly dying down and anime is growing in popularity.