found a link to this on TenTonHammer.com

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=178462

Blizzard expands on Lich King's PvP warfare

Thursday 3-Jan-2008 11:00 AM Huge zone designed for PvP revealed in new WoW expansion

"Upcoming World of Wacraft expansion (Wrath of the Lich King) will feature a large area dedicated to PvP, Blizzard has revealed.

A "cool part of Northrend is new big PvP zone. It's about the size of Westfall, and will be all-PvP - in no way, shape or form will we support PvE players in it", the developer's Jeff Kaplan has told PC Zone.

He continued, "It'll be optional, but it'll be completely non-instanced, have multiple objectives, siege weapons and destructible buildings".

In the interview, Kaplan went on to promise that WoW adventurers will have their socks blown off when they first enter the new continent of Northrend. 

"We absolutely need to make the entry to Northrend epic", he said. "...we originally had the entry to Burning Crusade's Dark Portal as a bunch of cohorts waling around, and people reacted badly. This really hammered home the fact that we needed to raise expectations on entering the expansions".

World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King is expected to launch this year, though Blizzard has yet to confirm when. "

But is it too little too late? Are they merely trying to say "Hey, we have Warhammer Online type stuff too!" 

Is this a good sign for Warhammer that they are the ones being emulated by the Big Shot MMO? 

I mean, people have been saying forever that PvP in WoW is meaningless grind for gear. They removed all of the "cool" parts of PvP, the rank system, dishonorable kills, and any reason to do world PvP with the honor point grind.

What do ya'll think? I mean, I think it's a great move for WoW, and hopefully this will be the first of MANY of this type of zone. But I also think it's going to be too little, too late, and I personally will be moving to WAR for my PvP fix.

Originally posted by heerobya

But is it too little too late? Are they merely trying to say "Hey, we have Warhammer Online type stuff too!" 

I mean, people have been saying forever that PvP in WoW is meaningless grind for gear. They removed all of the "cool" parts of PvP, the rank system, dishonorable kills, and any reason to do world PvP with the honor point grind.

Yes that's exactly what it is, Blizzard's attempt to stay on top. The thing is that Warhammer will have every zone set up for meaningful PvP vice Blizzard's attempt to lock everyone in an instance and grind for PvP gear.

So basically we take Warhammer's idea and give you ONE WHOLE ZONE(lol) to play in! Don't leave! Moron developers just trying to patch a gaping hole in the dam.

Blizzard's biggest mistake is moving away from outdoor PvP, on release PvP was fun. It was outdoor and non-static and just pure fun. Southshore vs. Tauren Mill anyone? The rank system was OK, not perfect by any means but it was a step in the right direction. Immediately after that they screwed up and added the WSG instanced Battleground and just kept running with that. Another gear grind fest.

Originally posted by Riho06 

Yes that's exactly what it is, Blizzard's attempt to stay on top. The thing is that Warhammer will have every zone set up for meaningful PvP vice Blizzard's attempt to lock everyone in an instance and grind for PvP gear.

So basically we take Warhammer's idea and give you ONE WHOLE ZONE(lol) to play in! Don't leave! Moron developers just trying to patch a gaping hole in the dam.

Blizzard's biggest mistake is moving away from outdoor PvP, on release PvP was fun. It was outdoor and non-static and just pure fun. Southshore vs. Tauren Mill anyone? The rank system was OK, not perfect by any means but it was a step in the right direction. Immediately after that they screwed up and added the WSG instanced Battleground and just kept running with that. Another gear grind fest.

Eh, I don't blame the developers too much.

Yes, it was a LOT of fun back in the early days.

Really, it's the players fault. We wanted uber gear for PvP so we'd win. We wanted fair PvP so we wouldn't get ganked and griefed. So they gave us a point based gear purchasing system and instanced, controlled situations in which to PvP so it'd be fair and even.

The only thing Blizzard did wrong was create a level based game that was far too dependant on level and your gear for PvP. Great for PvE, just awesome... but for PvP, this type of level / gear system never works in open world PvP setting.

i'm sure that PvP zone will keep all the WoW fanbois happy... that one pvp zone.  But it's good to see that Blizz is taking some pointers from WAR... as far as being to little too late... i'm gonna go with yes.  And that "yes" will only include the peeps who have already quit WoW and moved on to other games.

That's what WOW does.  It takes things from other games and incorporates it into their design.  They are the Borg of MMO's.  That's why they are winning the subscription war.

I don't think Warhammer Online invented this type of pvp though...

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Originally posted by heerobya

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Originally posted by Riho06
Yes that's exactly what it is, Blizzard's attempt to stay on top. The thing is that Warhammer will have every zone set up for meaningful PvP vice Blizzard's attempt to lock everyone in an instance and grind for PvP gear.
So basically we take Warhammer's idea and give you ONE WHOLE ZONE(lol) to play in! Don't leave! Moron developers just trying to patch a gaping hole in the dam.
Blizzard's biggest mistake is moving away from outdoor PvP, on release PvP was fun. It was outdoor and non-static and just pure fun. Southshore vs. Tauren Mill anyone? The rank system was OK, not perfect by any means but it was a step in the right direction. Immediately after that they screwed up and added the WSG instanced Battleground and just kept running with that. Another gear grind fest.

---

Eh, I don't blame the developers too much.
Yes, it was a LOT of fun back in the early days.
Really, it's the players fault. We wanted uber gear for PvP so we'd win. We wanted fair PvP so we wouldn't get ganked and griefed. So they gave us a point based gear purchasing system and instanced, controlled situations in which to PvP so it'd be fair and even.
The only thing Blizzard did wrong was create a level based game that was far too dependant on level and your gear for PvP. Great for PvE, just awesome... but for PvP, this type of level / gear system never works in open world PvP setting.

---

far too dependant on level and your gear for PvP.

this is the issue tho. and i can guarantee if there is no gear to be won here then no one will use it... but of course there will be cause they're raising the level cap another 10 levels. yay. all your hard work to bash through the levels and raids in outlands has now just been wasted. enjoy.

Originally posted by heerobya

found a link to this on TenTonHammer.com

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=178462

Blizzard expands on Lich King's PvP warfare

 

Thursday 3-Jan-2008 11:00 AM Huge zone designed for PvP revealed in new WoW expansion

"Upcoming World of Wacraft expansion (Wrath of the Lich King) will feature a large area dedicated to PvP, Blizzard has revealed.

A "cool part of Northrend is new big PvP zone. It's about the size of Westfall, and will be all-PvP - in no way, shape or form will we support PvE players in it", the developer's Jeff Kaplan has told PC Zone.

He continued, "It'll be optional, but it'll be completely non-instanced, have multiple objectives, siege weapons and destructible buildings".

In the interview, Kaplan went on to promise that WoW adventurers will have their socks blown off when they first enter the new continent of Northrend. 

"We absolutely need to make the entry to Northrend epic", he said. "...we originally had the entry to Burning Crusade's Dark Portal as a bunch of cohorts waling around, and people reacted badly. This really hammered home the fact that we needed to raise expectations on entering the expansions".

World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King is expected to launch this year, though Blizzard has yet to confirm when. "

But is it too little too late? Are they merely trying to say "Hey, we have Warhammer Online type stuff too!" 

Is this a good sign for Warhammer that they are the ones being emulated by the Big Shot MMO? 

I mean, people have been saying forever that PvP in WoW is meaningless grind for gear. They removed all of the "cool" parts of PvP, the rank system, dishonorable kills, and any reason to do world PvP with the honor point grind.

What do ya'll think? I mean, I think it's a great move for WoW, and hopefully this will be the first of MANY of this type of zone. But I also think it's going to be too little, too late, and I personally will be moving to WAR for my PvP fix.

I am personally waiting for the next xpak before I come back for sure (maybe sooner)  and I can't remember what else I was going to say 'cuz i walked away for a bit to fix a copy machine... so i end there.  lol.

Well like I said, WoW is great for the PvE game.

I will probably come back just for the new PvE content the expansion brings.

But they have never been "good" at PvP, and this latest move seems to be a lifeline to try and convince people that "see, we are serious about PvP and we listen to you! Please don't go play WAR!"

I'll probably end up playing both, to be honest.

WoW for the new PvE stuff, and WAR for the PvP and (hopefully) some cool PvE stuff like Tome and PQs etc.

Originally posted by Terranah

 

I don't think Warhammer Online invented this type of pvp though...

No but the guys that are developing WAR did invent this type of pvp.

WoW will do what it can to remain valid and during it's several year run nothing has really managed to shake up Blizzard enough to take notice. It's nice to see that WAR is rattling the cage a bit, even though it won't slay the beast it will surely weaken it substantially.

its a good idea (and was bound to be invented sooner or later).  this should keep some pvp freaks off my grind spots for a while....

Fun stuff, I still wont go back to WoW though

I'm not quite sure what to make of this yet.  I know that Blizzard originally intended for Alterac Valley to be non-instanced but there were technical difficulties and so they ended up making it instanced like the other BG's.  I'm not really sure how this will work or if it will work well.  I'm not all that familiar with how Warhammer Online is supposed to work either.  So I'm taking a wait and see approach.  Once the beta comes out and people start getting a chance to use it we might know more.  I think it's too early to determine how this will change things.

Originally posted by Pappy13

I'm not quite sure what to make of this yet.  I know that Blizzard originally intended for Alterac Valley to be non-instanced but there were technical difficulties and so they ended up making it instanced like the other BG's.  I'm not really sure how this will work or if it will work well.  I'm not all that familiar with how Warhammer Online is supposed to work either.  So I'm taking a wait and see approach.  Once the beta comes out and people start getting a chance to use it we might know more.  I think it's too early to determine how this will change things.

TBH AV is big enough, and I dont see any advantages players would get by AV being non-instanced... except the outnumbering etc...

Not really sure how this will go over honestly. I could really care less myself as I pvp when I feel like pvping and when I do pvp I do it on a pvp server.

As far as the pve servers I doubt many will even be bothered with it unless they go for a change or to just try it. Most people who do pvp on a pve server only do it so they have a chance at getting any type of decent gear, especially if they are not in a guild that runs dungeons a lot.

Originally posted by dA_fReAK

 

Originally posted by Pappy13

I'm not quite sure what to make of this yet.  I know that Blizzard originally intended for Alterac Valley to be non-instanced but there were technical difficulties and so they ended up making it instanced like the other BG's.  I'm not really sure how this will work or if it will work well.  I'm not all that familiar with how Warhammer Online is supposed to work either.  So I'm taking a wait and see approach.  Once the beta comes out and people start getting a chance to use it we might know more.  I think it's too early to determine how this will change things.

 

TBH AV is big enough, and I dont see any advantages players would get by AV being non-instanced... except the outnumbering etc...

Well I guess the biggest question is what are the people going to be doing there?  If you look at AV, there are some quests and such that really are pretty meaningless now because everyone ignores them for the most part because they are busy killing stuff before the game ends.  But if it's not instanced, then there really is no logical beginning and end, it's simply there 24x7 and perhaps those quests can then somehow become meaningful.  That's my theory, but I really don't know if it will work in practice or if those quests will still be ignored or what.  And how will this change the PvP aspects of the zone?  If there's really no beginning and end, how do you win?  Or perhaps no one ever really wins you just simply gain honor while you're there in several different ways and you'll get more or less depending on how much of the area you control etc.  There's just too many unknowns at this point in my opinion to determine if this will change things or not.

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Originally posted by Riho06
Yes that's exactly what it is, Blizzard's attempt to stay on top. The thing is that Warhammer will have every zone set up for meaningful PvP vice Blizzard's attempt to lock everyone in an instance and grind for PvP gear.
So basically we take Warhammer's idea and give you ONE WHOLE ZONE(lol) to play in! Don't leave! Moron developers just trying to patch a gaping hole in the dam.
Blizzard's biggest mistake is moving away from outdoor PvP, on release PvP was fun. It was outdoor and non-static and just pure fun. Southshore vs. Tauren Mill anyone? The rank system was OK, not perfect by any means but it was a step in the right direction. Immediately after that they screwed up and added the WSG instanced Battleground and just kept running with that. Another gear grind fest.

---

Sorry, had to have a giggle at this one as no-one yet knows what the completed format of WAR's PvP will be yet (since it isn't finished) as we don't know exactly how WoW's is gonna turn out either. The WAR developers have already started making comments about how they think people are expecting too much from them in terms of PvP as the play has been a bit more static than some expected, so i wouldn't get your hopes up far too high.

Have Blizzard latched on to the wave of pressure coming from players in regard to open PvP, well of course they have and they would be mad not to do so. Any game that does not move on and incorporate new stuff will stagnate and die, so they are listening to the market and moving with it. Open siege warfare is hardly 'Warhammers Idea' but they have been the first to build an MMO around that idea and this will be Blizzards way of putting some pressure on their development.

People are not stupid and will of course see this as a way of keeping existing players in with the release of other MMO's this year, but it is a clever one as why would you leave a game you have invested so much time in when they are going to add the thing you were leaving for in the first place?

Didnt they already try to boost world PvP with EPL's towers?
I wouldnt know, no one ever PvPed there....

Originally posted by Jaded5542

Didnt they already try to boost world PvP with EPL's towers?
I wouldnt know, no one ever PvPed there....

Yes.  Is there a reason they should stop trying?

To little to late as far as im concerned.  They should have come out with this months ago, but instead they are trying to bring this crap out around the time that AOC and WAR will be comming out.

No thanks I pefer to be able to pvp with a meaning at a low level not wait and have to grind to lvl 80 then grind for good gear and trinkets and weapons only to be able to compete in this high lvl pvp RvR ripoff.

Blizzard made a great game in WOW, but they decided that RvR /World PVP (the best type of PVP) was not something they wanted to do, now they are going to have to suffer the consequences of those actions.

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Jaded5542

Didnt they already try to boost world PvP with EPL's towers?
I wouldnt know, no one ever PvPed there....

Yes.  Is there a reason they should stop trying?

Because they suck at it?
So far they have added how many new PvP zones? and how much more world PvP have we seen?