My theory on why SOE won't bring back Pre-CU is because right after the NGE hit Bioware started making it's Star Wars based MMO and this would prevent SOE from do anything else to SWG.  Think about it, since the NGE hit and soon after Obiwan expansion, there has been no more expansions for SWG.  All SOe is aloud to do to SWG is debug and add some type of random content to keep the masses (all 200 of them) happy.

Just a theory, I'm sure it has plenty of holes in it, but it's nice to think this might be the case

Originally posted by oronisi

 

Originally posted by Bane82

I don't know if I honestly would like to come back even if they did bring back pre CU. SWG is starting to show its age, and with all the MMO's coming out next year (hopefully Bioware will make an announcement) I don't know if I'd even want to. I'm too burned out from what SOE has done and how it has treated its veteran players.

 

Exactly.  People are still complaining about SOE not rolling back to Pre-CU.  Guess what, if they did do that, they'd lose 50% of their remaining customers easily, and most of the old vets have moved on so they would not resub.  As fond of the old game as I am, I would not go back to that TKM in composite filled buggy POS game, with no collision detection, no Z axis, and not to mention, still laggy servers and client.  It's just too old.

SOE screwed the pooch by doing the following:

Instead of balancing out what was already existent, they implemented the CU.  The CU wasn't bad, but it killed socializing in groups thanks to the level-based system.  Sorry, level + skill base didn't work that well.  It could have if it was done properly, but it wasn't - it segregated the players.  No one wants to group with a level 54, and the level 54 would get no XP when grouped with level 80.

Well, obviously it didn't work the way they expected, and with the popularity of WoW - they thought "Lets clone the WoW gameplay a bit, and while were at it, make combat more interactive!"  So we got the NGE.  The NGE is a slow/quick poison.  Quick in that it caused so many people to leave all at once, and slow because it just keeps degrading the game more and more with each update.

Even if they could "roll-back", people would be pissed because they'd have to work to get Jedi again.  Wouldn't hurt my feelings any, but a rollback would mean going back to character stats, item, etc that were there over two years ago.  All things in-between would be gone.  Including Kashyyyk and Mustafar.

I don't see them rolling back to Pre-CU.  Doubtful they'll even go back to CU.

Originally posted by oronisi

 

Originally posted by Bane82

I don't know if I honestly would like to come back even if they did bring back pre CU. SWG is starting to show its age, and with all the MMO's coming out next year (hopefully Bioware will make an announcement) I don't know if I'd even want to. I'm too burned out from what SOE has done and how it has treated its veteran players.

 

Exactly.  People are still complaining about SOE not rolling back to Pre-CU.  Guess what, if they did do that, they'd lose 50% of their remaining customers easily, and most of the old vets have moved on so they would not resub.  As fond of the old game as I am, I would not go back to that TKM in composite filled buggy POS game, with no collision detection, no Z axis, and not to mention, still laggy servers and client.  It's just too old.

They don't even have 50K players anymore (nowhere near that) and they'd get at least 50K for classic server.  Besides they don't even have to do that, they can keep the NGE going and just offer alternate servers.  But they won't.  Smed isn't that smart.

I have considered how much pride $OE and teh Smedz actually has to do with not rolling back to pre-CU earlier or opening new pre-CU servers now. If there is one thing that truly rules the roost at $OE, and that is unadulterated greed. They would sell out their very souls in the name of the almighty dollar (they have already sacrificed their reputations long ago), so how much does pride really matter? I suspect that there are actual barriers that those idiots can't over come (probably self-created to a large extent), such as contractual issues with LA upon the creation of every revamp done. There is also the stupidity factor which continues on without any accountability, which enables them to step over a dollar for a shiney, new penny over and over again.

LA's silence has been 'deafening' in regards to any classic servers or roll backs, but they are content letting those who created the NGE fiasco dangle over the fiery rage of the betrayed consumers. I can't say I blame them. I also believe LA wants to distance itself further from the likes  of $OE before any major release of future games....better to see SWG fade out with less than 25k active subs.

Originally posted by oronisi

 

Originally posted by Bane82

I don't know if I honestly would like to come back even if they did bring back pre CU. SWG is starting to show its age, and with all the MMO's coming out next year (hopefully Bioware will make an announcement) I don't know if I'd even want to. I'm too burned out from what SOE has done and how it has treated its veteran players.

 

Exactly.  People are still complaining about SOE not rolling back to Pre-CU.  Guess what, if they did do that, they'd lose 50% of their remaining customers easily, and most of the old vets have moved on so they would not resub.  As fond of the old game as I am, I would not go back to that TKM in composite filled buggy POS game, with no collision detection, no Z axis, and not to mention, still laggy servers and client.  It's just too old.

They tried a similar stunt two years ago, and they got burned bad.

Such a move would also just further their reputation as being untrustworthy.

The thing is, they've dug a hole with the NGE and the way out...classic servers...they've dismissed as "too expensive" because they'd have to maintain two code bases, and essentially be running two games.  Apparently LA ruled out two side by side SWGs long ago.  Why this is, when it's well known that LA is if anything more Ferengi than SOE, and that two SWGs would probably allow them to get a lot of subscription revenue they otherwise would not, eludes me, but I'm assuming that they have run some numbers and don't think they'd get the same percentage return with two versions running as opposed to one, and therefore they've ruled it out.

I know there are a lot of people who take the "WW II" approach...that unless SOE cans Smedly, purges the SWG staff of any taint of NGE responsible parties, that they won't come back.  What SOE did with the CU and the NGE was destroy consumer confidence and trust, and that's ridiculously hard to get back  We see this in the larger economy with the subprime lending mess; trust has been eroded, and once you've done that, you're screwed.  It's next to impossible to get back.  SOE is in the same mess, so much so that every last property they're associated with is tainted by it.

Originally posted by Apache_

SoE has said from the very beginning that they 'Technically' can not do a roll back.   But they never say exactly what 'Technically' means.

My theory (and I get flamed for this all the time) is that 'Technically means that they simply can not.   As in they are not allowed.   I think that someone is not letting them have access to, or use of the CU/Pre-CU game system.

I often wonder if a game system can be actually owned.   It is and idea after all.  An invention if you will.   Ideas get patented and copy right all the time.  They become an Intellectual Property themselves with an actual owner(s).  These copy right ideas get sold or maybe.....leased?

Could it be that SoE never actually held ownership of the Pre-CU/CU game system and instead had some kind of limited lease to use it that ran its course and/or got cancelled?

Now, if we decide to go ahead and run with that idea, then things kind of start to make sense (atleast to me).  

 SoE has admitted that the NGE was thier idea.  But why such a drastic change? Could they have felt pushed into it?   Well, if they lost the right to use a Patented game system, then it would make sense that the New game system would have to be completely different to avoid copy right laws.

Maybe it is why they are slowly adding things from the old game system into the new one, and still try and keep it as different as possible from the old gaming system..

I could run all day with this speculation lol...But in the end thats all it is....Speculation.   Just something that I thought of to try and justify the situation.

Thanks for reading my totally unfounded conspiracy theory lol

P.S.  Try and keep the flames to a minimum....I have sensitive skin

I'm sure Smed would like to spell out exactly what LA's role was in the whole deal, but he can't.  I'm also fairly confident that some SOE folks would have loved to try classic servers, but they weren't allowed to.

I think we know some of the reasons behind these decisions, but it always seems like some of the reasons are withheld and/or hidden behind NDAs.  While this is understandable from a corporate and legal point of view, it doesn't really allow for the kind of honest communication strategy that builds trust.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

 

I think there are probably barriers to pre-cu servers that we may never know about, just like I think there are barriers that prevent former SOE staff from openly discussing the decision making process behind the NGE and the specific roles played by SOE and LA.  When giving out reasons for "no pre-cu servers" it always sounds like half the story for some reason. 

 

I'm sure Smed would like to spell out exactly what LA's role was in the whole deal, but he can't.  I'm also fairly confident that some SOE folks would have loved to try classic servers, but they weren't allowed to.

I think we know some of the reasons behind these decisions, but it always seems like some of the reasons are withheld and/or hidden behind NDAs.  While this is understandable from a corporate and legal point of view, it doesn't really allow for the kind of honest communication strategy that builds trust.

Yup, all very true.  The NDAs and the secrecy prevent us from knowing upon what basis these decisions are made.

So we're left with kremlinolgy at best, which is nothing more than slightly informed speculation.

I honestly believe it has everthing to do with the LA/bioware team up that has taken place. So many highup boardroom meetings and licensing, who controls what and stuff. At this point we can only wish or assume that the new game being developed is a SW mmo. I wonder how long LA and bioware have been in private meetings working on this new partnership. It may have taken LA a couple of yrs. to get bioware to playball, so to speak. This, i believe is the main reason why SOE cannot do a roll back or have clasic servers.

One of the main reasons SOE always falls back on is that  they cannot run to version's of the game. In which i take that to mean they don't even have the origional version. I think that once LA decided to get into bed with Bioware as well as probably whatever the terms are for how long SOE has the rights to use the SW brand, they forced SOE to make a change to the game all awhile knowing that they were going to give Bioware the code that we all know as SWG pre-cu. To refine it and complete it.

It kind of makes sense especially knowing that right after the NGE hit, Bioware opened up a office in Austin and hired a bunch of the origional dev team that helped create SWG. I just don't think that SOE is not listening, they just can't do it.  Now, this is all my opinion of couse, but it does seem plausible. Knowone but LA/ SOE really knows what and how their partnership in this whole thing is actually structured, so it's pretty much anyones guess.

Even if i am wrong and SOE would open some classic servers, i doubt that they would get back may people. To much time has passed and to many people still feel betrayed by that company.

I think they should open it up to the world as an open source game. Allow people to host their own version of SWG. And release mod tools much like Never Winter Nights I and II has done for a purchase fee of 50.00. Allow  the "fan" to make the game. 

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Originally posted by Lateris
I think they should open it up to the world as an open source game. Allow people to host their own version of SWG. And release mod tools much like Never Winter Nights I and II has done for a purchase fee of 50.00. Allow  the "fan" to make the game. 

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Oooh that would be a neat idea, but then again. Wouldn't that open up the flood gates for ID stealing hackers??? or are you saying that, it being open source, it would be free for everyone to play, no personal information required?

Amen

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Originally posted by salvaje At this point the battle lines are clearly drawn and both sides are in the trenches. Here is the furthest I am willing to compromise: If SOE: 1. Fires Smed 2. Fires Cao and any other senior managers who were part of the NGE decision in 2005 3. Starts a discussion with the community about HOW they are going to bring back the NGE, be it by publishing the old system into the current game, or by a new revamp of the core that essentially brings it back 4. Opens classic servers in the meantime If they do that, I will then consider them to have not only apologized, but taken appropriate measures to make good on that apology. Until then, they will continue to bleed, not just from SWG, but from the -5000 industry faction they have acquired. This is like World War II for me and many others. Nothing short of unconditional surrender and the end of the regime responsible for starting this mess will do. Until then, scorched earth. I like our chances to eventually get a better game that isn't SOE a lot more than I like SOE's chances to survive with their reputation and without our money.

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Unless they do that...  DEATH TO SOE...  As a corporation.  (not as people).

SOE will never have credibility again until Smed is gone. And his cronies.  He is the face of SOE, and the frontman.

 www.soesucks.net

Will be launching soon.

That is a statement of fact.  Not a threat.  Their words and actions.  Their own worst enemies.  SOE has 24 hours to open classic or else the site goes live.  It will archive their words and actions against them as a PERMANENT archive. 

Launching SWG classic will make it go away.  Nothing else short of that will.

I will personally transfer soesucks.net to John Smedley's ownership if he:

1. Orders SWG classic servers

2. Orders no changes to them other than content additions.

3. Resigns from the MMO industry.

SWG 2.

I'm of the opinion that they should remake the game from the ground up with updated graphics, cleaner code etc, but model the game mechanics around the original SWG.

I think this is the only way that they could successfully develop the right amount of hype, gain new paying customers and have the return of the vets at the same time.

Although pre-cu servers may bring some players back, I don't think it's the solution.

Smed has until Noon Eastern time tomorrow to offer classic SWG or else the website of his nightmares will open...  Do it.  You will make MORE MONEY FOOL!

Originally posted by salvaje

Smed has until Noon Eastern time tomorrow to offer classic SWG or else the website of his nightmares will open...  Do it.  You will make MORE MONEY FOOL!

 

If SOE/LA decide that they want vets to play their game, and they decide to listen to what they're really asking for, well that's good I suppose, for those that would give SOE/LA yet another chance to communicate honestly and provide a good service.  I'd be too skeptical at this point.

For me, I think I'm going to continue having some online fun in my spare time where it's not stressful, and wait and see if another StarWars online experience becomes available some time in the future.

Oh, and I'll continue to pop in here and shoot the breeze with other vets like yourself :)  The SWG community was really great, and it's nice to keep in touch with folks that shared the experience.

There is obviously another SW mmo in the works from someone. Bioware, SOE even. There wont be classics until swg shuts down and the emu is allowed to go "live" if you will, if they are allowed, though it seems they will be IMO.

Hi Arc!! Hows COX? Still playing? I gave that game a shot. Really fun if you got some friends. Kinda repetative around level 25+. Leveling up anyways. They also dont allow you to roleplay a proctologist gone mad called Dr. Stinkfinger. My buddy was dissappointed, he put alot of thought into that toons bio.

Some interesting theories here.  I am inclined to believe that if they could open a classic server and make money off it they would.  Also, it appears that it wouldn't necessarily take that many players to make it a feasible venture.  I mean, look at Matrix Online or some of their other station account games.  Therefore, there probably is some mitigating factor preventing them from doing this.

If they could though, I think a couple classic servers would be the best. It's been a long time since we played; learning fresh from the ground up would not be a bad thing, and it would go along way to perhaps reconstructing the community.

Smed, if you love MMO's, not just your games, but the genre, and if you respect the love that many of gamers had for your game in particular, you would give us something to heal the virtual wounds that were inflicted on us when friendships, guilds, whole cities were destroyed. 

To the original poster, FYI lots of vets have come back recently. And did it ever occur to anyone that people don't want to play an immensely buggy grind fest, geared towards hardcore players? Im not saying the enitre pre-cu or CU for that matter was terrible, infact i enjoyed it alot, but it had its faults and problems, as does NGE. Things change, the sooner people realize that about life, the sooner people will begin to enjoy themselves more.

Originally posted by saay

To the original poster, FYI lots of vets have come back recently. And did it ever occur to anyone that people don't want to play an immensely buggy grind fest, geared towards hardcore players? Im not saying the enitre pre-cu or CU for that matter was terrible, infact i enjoyed it alot, but it had its faults and problems, as does NGE. Things change, the sooner people realize that about life, the sooner people will begin to enjoy themselves more.

Are those vet who have paid to come back or are they on the current 21 day free trial they recently sent out.

Most I have talked to are only there because they got the free trial.

And you talk about grind fests ...you do realise that GCW,ground RE,BM pet leveling and Collections are all grinds.