The problem with this business model is it gives developers incentive to increase the grind so people will use the service.  Free to play games with RMT built in are invariably grindfests. Now you'll see subscription games built the same way. At least more so than they already are. If RMT is evil poor game design is the root of that evil. If games were fun to play all the way through people wouldn't want to buy virtual property to avoid having to play them. The solution is obvious. Build MMOs that don't suck and that people want to continue to play after the first couple of months.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Resistance is futile...

In all seriousness, people need to lighten up.  Not only is rmt in very high demand, but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

1. AO is Sub based payment method, commerial  based ,and item mall based.   

2. Funcoms lead person said they would not be doing this to their game in his oh so mighty speech awhile back.  

The reason this works in Eve.Simple.

1.Eve polices bot farmers which is part of what I expect for a monthly fee. (a level playing field.) 

2. Eve efficiantly drains its economy of isk.  just as well if not better than the ways isk are brought into the economy.

3.Lets also note, they  do not provide this service thru a 3rd party.The isk is brought (suppose to be brought) into game thru normal methods of a person playing.  So a this 3rd party service could very well  infest a game such as Ao with numerous bots. 

Reasons  this is bad for Funcom and I assume this will be used in AO.

1. A very , and I do mean very small group of players control unique encounters.  They run the raidbots so its their rules or the highway.     Their is not enough community to be able to opose these bots and expect to settle back in after words and mix into the crowd.  One org did this awhile back and was hunted by everyone ((The sheep herders and the sheep)) and eventually split up due to the fact they were not able to blend back into the population when they wanted.   I believe it was called Mafia Din Romainia .  4 soldiers I believe, Out Damaged a 40+ man raidforce in APF.   And they were hounded from then on, until basically MDR was no more. I dont know exactly or why they split. I do think it is safe to assume tho they got tired of the atention that was thrown their way (((by the sheep herders and sheep)) after a few of these stunts..

2. The reason number 1 is such a big deal. That is probably what the majority of this gold being bought will be used to buy. So these players essentially not only control certain playfields but they also have a chance to really abuse this system to god knows what end.

3.  Anarchy Online does not take credits out of the economy.   It simply doesn't. Money changes hands but it never gets vacumed out. Except for the new alt or player that needs a 5 mill yalm once in a characters life time. Which is why this service will not be any good  for players who have been playing a year or 2 currently. They have their mains for the most part kitted.  This is only screwing over the new player, stagnating the playerbase even more.

 So now not only is it pretty impossable to make credits to buy your Shadowlands weapon or Symbs at the lvl its ment to be used. (if your new). Not talking twink gear just what would be considered average or below average. 

 But its rewarding those who can farm these items on mains to screw the new player. Instead inforceing the idea  to help fellow faction members out..   There was a reason Ao was always mentioned as one of the best communitys. This gold selling thing if introduced can possably destroy whats left of the decent community.   

Fees to me do not only pay for Server maintenance, is also insures that i get  a level playing field, Along with semi balanced mechanics, and Customer service.    Funcom has 3 ways of earning income from this game currently. Soon to be a 4th ((not including box costs))   And the economy is still way outta whack.  Spawns are farmed and monopolized as well as entire playfields by a small group of players.  Which is general home to non-instanced mobs that drop an assortment of items in all of the game. That characters essentially need.

All this Gold buying does is re-inforce paying for loot rights from those who monopolize this spawn and essentially don't need anything other than a lazymans way to farm.

I do not see how I can point it out anymore clearer than this as far as Funcom and AO is concerned.

After skimming over the comments, I have this question: who is most affected by the move? Players or gold farmers?  I do not see anyone talk on behalf of the gold farmers, who would be losing their job and their company setup.  They should be up in arms.

Instead, I see many objections on ground of morality.  That is absurd.  You can criticise SoE for selling, but you can do nothing to criticise the gold farmer who is farmer Boss XYZ 24/7 and simply kill-stealing anything that moves.  SoE can effectively remove the gold farmer by making it totally unprofitably.  The RL money goes to SoE, not the gold farmer.  I sure think SoE deserves it more than the annoying gold farmer, and hopefully, this will help finance more free expansions.

I see arguments about companies raising grinding levels to force people to buy.  No no, not unless SoE is monopoly in the MMO market.  Competition will ensure that games are make to be enjoyed, and unless everyone enjoys grinding, someone else will make a less grinding game to attract the non grinders.

I see arguments about inflation, which in most essense is a very valid argument.  Item decay, money sink (some can be fun, such as potions, housing rental), all can be used, but eventually, as we all level up we will be rich.  As we all get rich, inflation will occur for our alts.  That is as realistic in RL as in games.  Unless we do not use the capitalist model of money trade in game, it will be inevitable.  Luckily its only a general price level increase, meaning the rate of exchange of items (relative prices) still reflects the relative popularity.  So a blue sword is still worth 2 green swords, even though the prices of both has doubled in 2 months.  The ultimate victim?  True newbies, first timers, new migrants from another server.

RMT is here to stay.  There is hardly any fool proof method to get rid of them.  Changing the gameplay to try to kill them is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Legitimizing it, and controlling it, preferrably in an open manner will help regulate the impact of RMT.  As long as there are competiting MMO companies, we can still hope that game quality be maintained as each company works out its policy on RMT.  Last but way the most important, goodbye to the bot farmer sitting in front of the temple of XYZ 24/7.  I can finally walk in and take a look at the monsters inside.

I couldn't believe it when I read it, but it doesn't seem to be a 100% thing just yet. People talk about how this will undermine IGN and other companies, i really don't see it that way. IGN will probably carry out its operations but instead they'll probably sell things on this site, obviously not under IGN.

This is good and bad; good in that this will probably allow the companies to actually look into the economy and change things accordingly (not EVE's case, they seem to have things under good control), but now that there is a legit market, you'll probably see people/bots/farmers playing games just for the sake of making money, not that they dont, but not its a lot easier to make money.

I'm in different really, hell if this work out I might even sell an "uber" item or two.

Originally posted by Ecranomical

I couldn't believe it when I read it, but it doesn't seem to be a 100% thing just yet. People talk about how this will undermine IGN and other companies, i really don't see it that way. IGN will probably carry out its operations but instead they'll probably sell things on this site, obviously not under IGN.

 

This is good and bad; good in that this will probably allow the companies to actually look into the economy and change things accordingly (not EVE's case, they seem to have things under good control), but now that there is a legit market, you'll probably see people/bots/farmers playing games just for the sake of making money, not that they dont, but not its a lot easier to make money.

 

I'm in different really, hell if this work out I might even sell an "uber" item or two.

It depends on the business model.  If the new company only sells items, not buy, then no farmer can make money by playing the game.  The only players in the game are those who play for fun, either farming all items or buying some and farming the rest.

I am happy too see the companies taking the reins of vitual trading for money, it will create more revenue for the game and it will be more secure and if they dont do it it will be done by a 3rd party no matter what.

I have an inkling that this will cut down on Farmers from corporations somewhat like eBay took a chunk out of online retailers.

At least I think that's the goal from the side of Game Developers since risking even 10% of your subscribers is a business model affecting decision.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Resistance is futile...

In all seriousness, people need to lighten up.  Not only is rmt in very high demand, but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

Also consider this, at some point the game maker is going to do a cost analysis on every aspect of game play.  Raids, quests, dungeons, repair bills, etc etc etc.  The question they will ask first and formost is, which will make us more money... making the game fun or making it cost more real life money. 

For me, I prefer a game that only has one focus... entertainment.  SOE already fails at launching games that are fun I highly doubt they will be able to balance in RMT into the mix now. 

it is to bad lazy people are ruining this industry.

Although I have not ever bought anything ingame for RL money (yet), even in the couple Free2Play games I play now and then - I have changed from being strongly against RMT to actually considering it an okay and acceptable business now (change coming over last 7-8 years or so).

My reason is simply that IMO it helps eliminate the "weird" difference between MMOs and other hobbies. In practically every other hobby out there you can spend cash to get better options. You can pay to have the best football-coach around 5 times a week (still doesnt mean you will be a star if you havent got the talent), you can pay to get more warhammer models, you can pay to get a better engine in your model-train, etc.

For too long IMO MMO-gamers have tried to hang onto some sort of "special" place for MMOs, different from other hobbies. While at the same time claiming its ridiculous when other people question the healthiness of playing a computer games for X hours a day.

Until we, the MMO players, accept and embrace our hobby being no different than any other hobby - how can we expect others to do the same towards us. How can we expect our spouses, friends, workmates to understand this hobby if we wont even consider it an equal hobby ourselves.

RMT is one of the borders that have kept MMOs outta the league of regular hobbies, because preventing RMT only means that it mostly supports the people who "give" up their Real Lives to grind hours every day in an MMO, while the rest of us claim its not unhealthy to play MMOs.
By accepting RMT we take away some of the pressure of the grinding IMO, and at the same time we make it legal for the players who spend the most time on this hobby to make a little cash outta it - just as if they were the ones building and painting that Model Army we want to have, but do not have the time to make ourselves.

I want "my" hobby to be accepted just as if a friend collect stamps, another plays Soccer 3 times a week, or a third builds his warhammer model army. And embracing RMT is one of the things I think is necessary to make this happen. Doesn't mean you have to use it all the time, but it works to remove the prejudiced opinion that in order to get "somewhere" in a MMO you have to sacrifice your Real Life.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Resistance is futile...

In all seriousness, people need to lighten up.  Not only is rmt in very high demand, but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

 

Where does the line get crossed when a game become more economical to be viewed as a job?  Looking at this as some sort of lottery where you might win a couple bucks ignores important aspects.  What happens when a sizable portion of your server isn't actually playing the game as entertainment, but as an income?  Not much MMO or RPG in that scene. Actually many games/servers are already invested by incoming making farmers, except that they are hired by the online gold sellers, not the game developers.  Do you have a good way to eliminate the farmers?  If not, you are just facing the choice of who is selling the sword or gold to you, SoE or the chinese farmer.  SoE does not need to farm the boss for gold, so with SoE selling, non RMT players can still get a shot at camping the boss.  With the chinese farmer selling, you can forget about zoning in.

 

Also consider this, at some point the game maker is going to do a cost analysis on every aspect of game play.  Raids, quests, dungeons, repair bills, etc etc etc.  The question they will ask first and formost is, which will make us more money... making the game fun or making it cost more real life money.   Not really, unless the majority are RMT players, otherwise excess RMT skewing will kill the game.  For games vested with RMT players now, there is no fun with or without developer selling directly.  The gold farmers already own the gameplay.

For me, I prefer a game that only has one focus... entertainment.  SOE already fails at launching games that are fun I highly doubt they will be able to balance in RMT into the mix now.  If you hate the SoE game, RMT will not affect you, you won't be playing.  If you are a non RMT player, you still have all the same options to play without playing, and if SoE tuned the game to suit only RMT players, you move on.  If you are a RMT player, you gain an additional RMT supplier who is far more reliable and surely 24/7 in business.

 it is to bad lazy people are ruining this industry.  Lazy people will buy through RMT anyway.  They exist and they have the money to buy the game box and subscribe.  Your choice will be to play in that game or move on till you find a game without lazy people.  RMT from developers does not appear to affect your options available.

 

One thing I wonder, will SoE buy back the items from players offering cash?  If not, players cannot make money directly selling to SoE.  Players can try to ebay or sell to gold farmers, but that means competing against SoE, the market maker.  Not a very promising venture, as SoE can always tune supply and RMT prices to kill off competition.

Not surprising that SOE is doing this, but it really is surprising that Funcom is doing this. This is really going to change my mind about Funcom and their future games

... and for those that think that RMT is just veteran players selling their extra gold - It is not. Update your reality with big business that is using bots, credit card frauds, hacking and other suspicious methods.

Originally posted by Resetgun

Not surprising that SOE is doing this, but it really is surprising that Funcom is doing this. This is really going to change my mind about Funcom and their future games

... and for those that think that RMT is just veteran players selling their extra gold - It is not. Update your reality with big business that is using bots, credit card frauds, hacking and other suspicious methods.

Agree, its shady corporations using unethical means to get the gold by hacking and bot-ing, and selling to players.  So if SoE is selling directly, the shady business go bankrupt.  Good for all.

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Resistance is futile...

In all seriousness, people need to lighten up.  Not only is rmt in very high demand, but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

Where does the line get crossed when a game become more economical to be viewed as a job?  Looking at this as some sort of lottery where you might win a couple bucks ignores important aspects.  What happens when a sizable portion of your server isn't actually playing the game as entertainment, but as an income?  Not much MMO or RPG in that scene. 

 

 

Also consider this, at some point the game maker is going to do a cost analysis on every aspect of game play.  Raids, quests, dungeons, repair bills, etc etc etc.  The question they will ask first and formost is, which will make us more money... making the game fun or making it cost more real life money. 

For me, I prefer a game that only has one focus... entertainment.  SOE already fails at launching games that are fun I highly doubt they will be able to balance in RMT into the mix now. 

 

it is to bad lazy people are ruining this industry.

 

hmmm cant be too lazy if they can afford to buy stuff off a rmt, maybe they want to keep up with the rest of the basement dwellers at mommas house but cant because they have a 60 hour workweek. also i would like to point out that in most mmo's i have played all the really awesome gear and items are bind upon pickup, causing no one but that person whom holds it to be able to use it, really think everyones getting worked up about nothing here.

I think this is one way to get the western market into the "buy items" as you play mentality.  So say I have a SWG character and I want to sell it. Or an EQ II account.  Now I can without any issues from SOE but they take a cut? This may lead to a future market war and a virtual black market. Oh I love the internet. 

I don't like this a bit..but I suppose resistance is futile as someone pointed out :(

The danger isn't that this business model will fail but that it will succeed and most other companies will follow suit. They're not going to put the black market RMT sellers out of business. Those people are already more efficient than any gaming company will ever be. It will put them in direct competition with them. That means either the company spends considerable resources trying to stop the black market, which raises their costs, or they end up with a flooded economy by trying to undercut them, which is very bad for gamers. You're looking at the future of online gamng and it is bleak. The idea of rare items in a mmo has always been a joke. Todays rare is tomorrows obsolete. They have to keep moving the finish line to keep people subscribed. This only accelerates the cycle because people can just shell out some bucks and jump to the end. Welcome to keeping up with the Joneses in hyperdrive.

Originally posted by boognish75

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

it is to bad lazy people are ruining this industry.

 

hmmm cant be too lazy if they can afford to buy stuff off a rmt, maybe they want to keep up with the rest of the basement dwellers at mommas house but cant because they have a 60 hour workweek. also i would like to point out that in most mmo's i have played all the really awesome gear and items are bind upon pickup, causing no one but that person whom holds it to be able to use it, really think everyones getting worked up about nothing here.

So your point is that these hard working people want to keep pace with no life losers?  Stop generalizing people.   If people work 60 hours a week, it doesn't justify paying someone else to play the game for them. 

I don't understand where people get this rationalization that spending money on virtual items is somehow ok just because someone plays more than they do.  Whats next?

Originally posted by Orthedos

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Resistance is futile...

In all seriousness, people need to lighten up.  Not only is rmt in very high demand, but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

 

Where does the line get crossed when a game become more economical to be viewed as a job?  Looking at this as some sort of lottery where you might win a couple bucks ignores important aspects.  What happens when a sizable portion of your server isn't actually playing the game as entertainment, but as an income?  Not much MMO or RPG in that scene. Actually many games/servers are already invested by incoming making farmers, except that they are hired by the online gold sellers, not the game developers.  Do you have a good way to eliminate the farmers?  If not, you are just facing the choice of who is selling the sword or gold to you, SoE or the chinese farmer.  SoE does not need to farm the boss for gold, so with SoE selling, non RMT players can still get a shot at camping the boss.  With the chinese farmer selling, you can forget about zoning in.

 

Also consider this, at some point the game maker is going to do a cost analysis on every aspect of game play.  Raids, quests, dungeons, repair bills, etc etc etc.  The question they will ask first and formost is, which will make us more money... making the game fun or making it cost more real life money.   Not really, unless the majority are RMT players, otherwise excess RMT skewing will kill the game.  For games vested with RMT players now, there is no fun with or without developer selling directly.  The gold farmers already own the gameplay.

For me, I prefer a game that only has one focus... entertainment.  SOE already fails at launching games that are fun I highly doubt they will be able to balance in RMT into the mix now.  If you hate the SoE game, RMT will not affect you, you won't be playing.  If you are a non RMT player, you still have all the same options to play without playing, and if SoE tuned the game to suit only RMT players, you move on.  If you are a RMT player, you gain an additional RMT supplier who is far more reliable and surely 24/7 in business.

 it is to bad lazy people are ruining this industry.  Lazy people will buy through RMT anyway.  They exist and they have the money to buy the game box and subscribe.  Your choice will be to play in that game or move on till you find a game without lazy people.  RMT from developers does not appear to affect your options available.

 

One thing I wonder, will SoE buy back the items from players offering cash?  If not, players cannot make money directly selling to SoE.  Players can try to ebay or sell to gold farmers, but that means competing against SoE, the market maker.  Not a very promising venture, as SoE can always tune supply and RMT prices to kill off competition.

Short version:

Yes there are ways to curb the gold selling, first start by banning people for buying gold to put some fear into them for breaking the rules.  However I'm not in a position to make these changes or I would.

I think you need to read what this service is offering.  It is just a middleman for player to player trades.  It will do nothing to get rid of the gold farmers.  In fact it pretty much legitimizes their activities and will make them more profitable most likely.  It only makes dealing with problems harder.  Hacking accounts?  Item/gold dupes?  What happens when these items are sold?  For SOE as an example of their long standing credit/gold dupes in EQ2/SWG and see how they reacted.

I understand that it happens, but that doesn't mean it is good for gaming.  Nor do I think just because people work or don't play as much as the next player that they should be allowed to bypass the games mechanics. 

I simply do not understand the mindset of the player that buys non existant stuff to look better in front of people they don't even know...

Take out the thrill of winning/ earning gear and you remove the second half of the allure of these games. The first half is of course community, but that has already been sold out in favour of the solo casual player. Now it seems the thrill of winning gear is also to be taken away in every game out there, if you want it or not. What is left? Nothing.

I wonder how far off the game is that drops no loot at all? The may as well just continually drop tokens of varying values, that can be added to by RL bought ones, to take to a virtual shop.... The more you solo hack and slash in your 1 man guild as you roam the silent souless world, watching other anon players run by doing the same thing, the more tokens you rack up...

I tend to ignore Asian market games tho, so maybe this exists already. The very thought of how braindead this is all going makes me shudder.

As for the 'well, it happens anyhow, so we might as well make it legal' argument... What a load of BS. Murder happens in RL right? It costs a stack to police right? Might as well make it legal right? You could say the same for any illegal activity. Maybe burgarly would be legal if the government could get away with taxing it... 

Damaging activies controlled and run by the powers that be are still damaging activies, and RL item trading destroys games in the long run. These games companies need to step back away from the spreadsheet for a long while and take a long look at what they are actually doing. They are slaughtering the goose that lays the golden eggs for a one off tasty dinner.

Actually, thinkin about it, you know what?