Ok first off I am the girl who used to go down to the local pizza place and take all the deliverery drivers tips by owning them at mortal kombat( still my all time favorite game).Sadly, those days are pretty much over, sure i can play it on xbox but it will never be the same as an actual arcade machine. Anyhow my take on pvp combat, well the biggest problem i see with alot of these games is the "luck factor" verses real player ability.  To me player killing should be about reflexes, game knowledge, memorization and better guessing of what your opponent will do next. The ability to control the fight and make your opponent do what you want them to do is what makes a good fighter. 

 What I dislike about  having to choose classes that all have different skills is that it takes alot of that away. As soon as you see an elf you know what their strengths and weaknesses are so it is easy to know what to do next verses figuring it out in the heat of battle. If all players in the game  have all abilities on one character and can make those characters appear however they want, then you would never be able to " predetermine" what they are capable of upon sight like fighting a real opponent.  If all players can train anything however they wish or everything to max, they can choose to work for it. so on one character you can have everything the game has to offer instead of having to create several characters to accomplish this.

 A game that allows you to do anything in actual battle in the game would make it possible to take combat to a higher level. You would never know what another player was going to do based on their appearance and you would never know what the other player was going to do in the middle of battle. Just because they maged you doesn't mean they are not going to range you then melee you. For players that fight for the challenge not for loot or fear this is  what player killing is all about. Players that care nothing if they die , and do not care much for pixel items, this is what makes the game fun.  The predictability in alot of games when fighting players makes you feel like you might as well be fighting an npc. If it were up to me I would take computerized luck out of it entirely and leave it up to real player skill, and have all players have the ability to do anything in battle that they choose to train all on one character.  That is what player killing to  me is all about.

--To me player killing should be about reflexes, game knowledge, memorization and better guessing of what your opponent will do next. The ability to control the fight and make your opponent do what you want them to do is what makes a good fighter. ---

All of this applies to games with "classes" as well. Even Mortal Kombat had "classes" so to speak. Each character had his move sets and you knew what you were going against each time someone picked their character. Like KABAL

But I get your point I think, basically a sandbox mmo with heavy emphasis on pvp.

Oh yea and I want a challenge, but I want the epic hammer to bludgeon you with too

I'm a girl too, if they made a PvP game with PvP like that I'm so playing it! I have no faith in PvP in MMOs atm, its just plain terrible. World of Warcraft is hardly about making war in a world, more about bashing epic-decked opponents in instances....over and over and over again in those same map with the same goals, its predictable. There's no true purpose, other then to endlessly rack up honor like a hamster on a wheel. What ever happened to world-scoped pvp, with city seiging and massive armies attacking towns and whatever. 

PvP in EQ2 is just plain nightmarish, the mechanics are utterly broken, slapped on a game that is made for PvE not PvP. It's basically all about twinked Brigands griefing lowbies all day. We really need a true PvP battle system that isn't gear-reliant, and more about using one's resourcefulness, using your skills and the environment to your advantage and everything else the OP said basically.  I know it probably wouldn't appeal to the mass market though. >_<

I hope WAR will make PvP something truly exciting. Although I'm not a fan of the gender-restricted classes, which I think its backwards, I will try it anyway.

The problem with giving everyone all the skills is that it would be very difficult to balance the game. Everyone would just be mage/tanks if it wasn't done just right.

Bloodthirsty chicks are sexy

I have alot of faith in WAR, but that's cause i loved DAOC. Hands down the best RvR/PvP I have ever experienced.

WAR seems to have alot of variables to pvp too despite being class based. Tactics, Morale, Skill Mastery, etc.

I'm basically placing my pvp bet on WAR due to Mythic developing it. Like the above poster, DAOC had the best rvr/pvp to date for me. PVP with a purpose, with goals other than just kill someone, and enough varieties of players and teams to fight that you had to change tactics often.

D.

What you doing outta the kitchen? 



(btw admins that was a joke)

Originally posted by slannmage

What you doing outta the kitchen? 



(btw admins that was a joke)

Probably owning you in your favorite game.

Even if a game was a big sandbox chances are you could tell what the opponent could do by just seeing what they are wearing. I mean, if they are using a dagger (for example) one would assume that they are going to be using fast attacks or attacks from behind. If they are sitting in cloth and a staff you'd figure they are probably casting spells, and if they have heavy armor you figure they are probably a warrior or some sort.

You get the idea. Anyways, I'm a huge PvP person as well and I don't really mind classes per-say. What I do like are classes that, within those, have customization options. Something as simple as WoW's talent tree is a good way to diversify what you are going up against while my favorite so far is probably how Anarchy Online handled things ("perks" [talents] and leveling your own skills) and how Age of conan will handle things (same way as Anarchy online but with more depth)

We asume your a girl still no proof but ok hehe.

Anyone who clame to have a realistic pvp system and you need skill to beat your oponent not character that have it all and you just push some buttens fast and kill should FOLLOW this game.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/

Only game in the make that realy is all about pvp and where you all have different templates and you need skill to beat other one not some stupid pvp system these days in games that millions play.

Very interesting post - just from a personal perspective, a man who does not PVP very much, the girls I could absolutely identify as girls (because of their voices on teamspeak or Ventrillo) who played alongside me in pre-CU SWG and WoW always seemed outnumbered by their male counterparts by a factor of about 15:1 ; however, they were always amongst the most successful PVPers, the most ruthless and hardocre and the most angry when they lost. For a more scientific analysis of woman in real and virtual combat situations, read 'Shoot The Women First' by Eileen Macdonald.

To the OP: You might want to check out "The Chronicles od Spellborn" (if you haven't so already).

While there won't be large scale PvP at Release (shard conquest is planned afterwards though), the PvP - mechanics should be very much to your liking.

Dark Age of Camelot has usually been one the best major MMORPG for PvP combat due to its 3 realm system. Also, DAOC has remained one of the steadiest MMORPGs over the years in terms of quality.  Same company is now making Warhammer Online which focus hard on PvP. Actully one of the better PvP systems of any current MMO in development atm.

I'm not a girl...but I play one in game....

..er, ok Not really. HOwever, I believe the "Girl's perspective " that you bring up is basically the main perspective of all players atm. There just isnt a solid newly released PvP game out there that we can sink our teeth into. As mentioned above, DAOC is probably the best PvP game to date but people are reluctant to play because its 7 years old. I'm tell you, some games age like fine wine. DAOC is still a fun game, and for PvP it still remains one of the best options out there. Head to the DAOC forums on this site and check out the "DAOC comeback threads" for more info.

I dont consider WoW a PvP game, its a PVE game that happens to also have PvP. A true PvP game is a game with player conflict at its core, it then builds up PVE around to support that fundamental conflict.

Dont count out AoC either, with all the focus on WAR, AOC may surprise a lot of people. Someone mentioned Spellborne, cannot say I know enough about that to comment. May be worth looking into.

Torrential

Originally posted by Kabaal

The problem with giving everyone all the skills is that it would be very difficult to balance the game. Everyone would just be mage/tanks if it wasn't done just right.

And yes, making a complex MMO is more difficult. But it would be so much more fun to play : )

Originally posted by daarco

 

Originally posted by Kabaal

The problem with giving everyone all the skills is that it would be very difficult to balance the game. Everyone would just be mage/tanks if it wasn't done just right.

Thats the problem with todays MMO developers......they rather make a (bad) WoW clone then do something new and fresh.

 

And yes, making a complex MMO is more difficult. But it would be so much more fun to play : )

Ultima Online is 10 years old and it has a more complex skill system than WoW.

The problem is these developers are lazy, they would rather make class based games because skill based games are far more difficult to balance.  As long as restrictive class games are in vogue you can forget having the scenario you desire.  I don't see any skill based games in development either.

I don't think it would really be all that hard to balance a game that had all abilities on one player simply because ALL players have  the opportunity to train  all those abilities as well.  That would be balance in itself wouldn't it? I mean between the different things such as mage, range, melee.. as long as they made equal hits in all of them it wouldn;t be so hard. Now as to the guy saying you could tell what someone was going to do by what they chose to wear .. yes to an extent, but   they could still range you in mage gear and melee you in range gear it would make the predictability factor much less than it is now in most games. I would also like you to be able to switch armors, weaopns, fighting styles during combat so that assuming what someone was going to do based upon what they were wearing or weilding could be a deadly mistake. Yes in MK you had to choose a character and they had different abilities, but what i loved most was playing someone on the same character they were using, leveling the playing field. Then just playing that character better than they did . That is truely dominating them :P And yes I do agree that girls are wayy outnumbered in games, Maybe if they would stop assuming that girls want more items to dress up like princess barbie and added more hardcore pvp content the games would be more attractive to women. I mean for us real girls we have lots of shoes, dresses, and jewelry for real, so that isn't what we crave in a game.  We want to be able to put our butt kicking shoes on :P

Well i wont get into details but this sounds a lot like EvE.

No classes.

100's of skills anyone can learn [you just buy them from teh NPC market].

Lots of PvP

Very little Grind.

I would say check out darkfall, you can learn any skill with any character, FFA PVP, but you lose faction if you attack your allies, guild wars, no classes, and a FPS.

It sounds to good to be true, but it looks like it might pull through. No gurantee if the game will ever come out though.