Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by Ravel_RP

Clothing without stats is a way of realising being able to look the way you like without consequence.

What is this a video game,  or Barbie dress up?

You make it sound as if both possibilities are mutually exclusive.

I like the Ideas of this kind o game. I rather go for the look of things then the stats. Here I can have both (right?)

If you mean that your cool looking plate armor isn't better then a robe, well that's nothing new, cool Plate helmets in WoW have often worse armor then small tiny red hats.

I think this game has alot of good ideas and it is currently on my top "to play list", but when it comes to crafting its lacking, imo. I understand why crafting would be trivial in a game that hasnt gear with stats, but why not use their Sigil system to create something brand new within the realm of crafting.

Maybe a better crafting system is something they are planning on as a future devolopment for the game, which is just fine. 

Crafting isnt more of a timesink then devoloping your other character skills... 

Originally posted by BesCirga

but why not use their Sigil system to create something brand new within the realm of crafting.

And they did not remove crafting from the game at all. They just removed the leveling (= grinding) from the crafting system and added a different way of getting hold of recipees.

huh? they created crafting professions based around sigil stones? I think you misunderstood me..

And they did remove crafting... the way it is now has nothing to do with crafting

Originally posted by BesCirga

huh? they created crafting professions based around sigil stones? I think you misunderstood me..

They created crafting around sigil stones, but now you are talking about crafting professions all of the sudden.

Originally posted by BesCirga

And they did remove crafting... the way it is now has nothing to do with crafting

New items are being created from raw materials with the help of recipees. That is crafting. But maybe you again are talking about crafting professions instead of crafting itself.

Originally posted by Ravel_RP

Originally posted by BesCirga

huh? they created crafting professions based around sigil stones? I think you misunderstood me..

They created crafting around sigil stones, but now you are talking about crafting professions all of the sudden.

Originally posted by BesCirga

And they did remove crafting... the way it is now has nothing to do with crafting

New items are being created from raw materials with the help of recipees. That is crafting. But maybe you again are talking about crafting professions instead of crafting itself.

Even though this game is my favorite forthcoming game, i can see that crafting isnt one of its many strong sides. From my point of view, crafting isnt turning in a item - CRAFTER creates a recipe - YOU get hold of materials - and then the CRAFTER creates YOUR item. Its a crafting system where the NPC's are the crafters and you are their errand boy. weak. If they are saying crafting is a timesink, why not just let us loot this broken item as a already useble item? I dont see the point.

• As where i was trying to express a crafting system based around sigil stones rather then armors, swords etc, I meant create crafting professions, or crafting skills which revolves around Sigils. First you could divide sigils into different sizes, like 3 small takes up same amount of space as 2 medium, or 1 large... Craft skill: Stonecutter - skill to cut gems into different sizes, or shapes. difficult level is based on how powerful the sigil is.
• Jewelry slots are based around item level not character level, okey make a jewelry craft skill where the character makes rings/necklace/earings with difficulty level based on number of slots and size of sigils. 
• A skill where you can pull the magic out of the sigil and convert it into a scroll or totem, which will give you a short timed buff on use.. (just examples!)

The possibilies are manyfold, and the special item system they created could have been a springboard to a uniqe and fun crafting system and not this errand boy system they use now. 

And please Ravel_RP, if you are just gonna splitt quote me and point out how you dont understand what I mean, leave it alone and dont respond.

Originally posted by BesCirga

 

If you are not interested in a discussion around a "weak" side of Spellborn, please let me know. Bescause i am not interested in spoonfeeding someone who doesnt want to understad, or twist words and meanings to aviod a discussion.

You are creating confusion by not clearly saying what you mean and are now blaming me for it. I don't like your attitude one bit. However, I will answer your question.

Originally posted by BesCirga

 

 

Even though this game is my favorite forthcoming game, i can see that crafting isnt one of its many strong sides. From my point of view, crafting isnt turning in a item - CRAFTER creates a recipe - YOU get hold of materials - and then the CRAFTER creates YOUR item. Its a crafting system where the NPC's are the crafters and you are their errand boy. weak. If they are saying crafting is a timesink, why not just let us loot this broken item as a already useble item? I dont see the point.

Your point of view is as valid as mine. That goes without saying.

But it is not about timesinks, but about level grinding. I hope you appreciate the difference. The point is that you not need to craft and craft items no one wants just to level up and to be able to create the item you do want. Instead you will be able to create any item as soon as you get your hands on a recipee, but if you don't want to create a specific item you do not need to either, since you only need the recipee and the ingredients to make it (ok, to let a crafter make it for you).

Of course, grinding is a time-sink too, but a time-sink of the worst kind. They want to minimize grinding, but do not want to get rid of time-sinks altogether. Hell, gaming itself is a time-sink, but that is taking it a bit too far perhaps. Crafting in its present form still involves an effort to gather the ingredient and bring them back to the crafter. Personally, I think the difference betwee bringing the ingredient to a crafter and bringing them to a crafting station is only cosmetic. Actually making the item yourself might of course include an extra effort that is now absent. That is true.

Now, what you propose (in more detail) is all feasible (but not included in the game). But when you really want to discuss this and want developers to take note you better take it to their forums.

Originally posted by Ravel_RP

 You are creating confusion by not clearly saying what you mean and are now blaming me for it. I don't like your attitude one bit. However, I will answer your question.

 

The confusion was created because we a very different views on what crafting is or isnt, I see that now. I thought you were being difficult in pure spite, but its too trivial to boggle over, so you have my apologies.

Conserning crafting in Spellborn; ...(btw, I didnt express those "ideas" as solutions, but merely trying to explain what i meant)... Trying to remove as much grind from the game as possible is all good and dandy, but there are ways to overcome the grind and still have players gain skill in crafting. Some players like swinging a sword, others like to craft it. Developing crafting skills to a character is the same thing as developing combat skills, its two sides of the same coin. I know you stated you didnt like crafting, so let reverse the situation and imagine the crafting would have been indepth in Spellborn and you paid NPC Mercenaries to do your fighting for you. Thats how I (one thats likes to craft) veiw this solution to spellborn crafting system.

Another point im afraid will happen is that when they removed the grind from the crafting, or from my point of veiw - removed it completly, is that the grind will be more evident in the questing part. what i mean by that is; questing 24/7 in a game becomes tiring after awhile, having crafting there to take some attention away from questing is a good thing, even if the crafting system is a huge grind.

All in all Spellborn looks to be the best game around, I just hope the crafting isnt a game breaker for me. guess ill find out when i start playing

Apology accepted.

Now, one of the main concerns of people at the moment is what is there to do except fighting, questing, exploring, PvP, gathering and playing chess and checkers at the inn?

The answer is: not much, but maybe it is more than enough. Maybe it is not. We cannot be sure before we have tried it. I do not know whether this game needs crafting skill to be added to the present crafting. I do believe TCoS is probably not meant for those who are into crafting and want it to be as complex as possible, so that they can earn status with it. Crafting is there but is not level-based and you cannot pick up a profession. For me that is no problem. Agreed, for others it might be. And, yes, diversion is always a good idea. I do share the concern that there might not be enough of it.

I didn’t like the crafting in WoW or Lotro.  And I loved not having gear in CoH, but I do like the item system in Diablo and Hellgate. 

So for me it depends on the game, I’m not going to say all games should have this or that. 

Actually the Devs said Crafting will be in the game, they are just not sure if they want it to be something you learn only at high levels or at what level that you can learn crafting skills.  But it wont be a skill you can learn from the start.  They admit it may not be there at release but it is being planned for expansions.  Crafting Glyphs and things like that. 

Originally posted by ghoul31

ok , so not only is there no crafting, but armor is totally worthless

A guy wearing platemail has the same defense as a naked person. Doesn't seem to make sense.

 

 

   Did Conan ever wear platemail?  Did he ever NEED to wear platemale?  Its called skill and ability.   Arent you totally sick of seeing clones of your character running around at your level wearing the same uber item of your class/level range?  Arent you sick of being forced to wear a stupid hat or pink dress because the stats on those items give you power you do want, but absolutely hate what it makes you look like?  Spellborn solves that problem by making get all their power from the modules you put into them.  Thus you can wield daggers, swords, clubs or staffs and have all the same power while looking the way you want to look.  Some higher level items will have more cosmetic things you want to have to fit your character's image better.  Like items with auras or other queues to signify your high level.  Cosmetic is a completely valid reason to want to get new items.  And getting new sigils are what you use to customize armor and weapons.

Originally posted by Ravel_RP

Apology accepted.

Now, one of the main concerns of people at the moment is what is there to do except fighting, questing, exploring, PvP, gathering and playing chess and checkers at the inn?

The answer is: not much, but maybe it is more than enough. Maybe it is not. We cannot be sure before we have tried it. I do not know whether this game needs crafting skill to be added to the present crafting. I do believe TCoS is probably not meant for those who are into crafting and want it to be as complex as possible, so that they can earn status with it. Crafting is there but is not level-based and you cannot pick up a profession. For me that is no problem. Agreed, for others it might be. And, yes, diversion is always a good idea. I do share the concern that there might not be enough of it.

That would be a great over generalizing of the things there are too do.  Exploring and Questing for instance covers a whole range of things to do depending on what kinda quests you take, and how the LORE is written and unfolds immersing you in the world your in.  The variety of experiences  you can have in just those terms can cover 100s of things to do.  You may want to be highly competitive and perfect your ability in PVP in arenas, you may want to setup and run a guild that controls a region waring with other guilds.  You may want to run around saving players from bully PKers, or you may want to be a PKer, you may just like to play chess in a pretty fantasy landcape, or who knows? Just saying that you may not like Crafting is just one aspect of so many others that you dont like.  At high level though you will be able to craft, and you will be able to multiclass at that  point learning skills outside your starter class.  Player housing will probably be added in expansion and player run cities, etc, etc.  They can add all kinds of things to gameworld, and considering all this as Not Much, is belittling all the best games ever made.

Originally posted by Wolfsheim

 

  

 

   Did Conan ever wear platemail?  Did he ever NEED to wear platemale?  Its called skill and ability.   Arent you totally sick of seeing clones of your character running around at your level wearing the same uber item of your class/level range?  Arent you sick of being forced to wear a stupid hat or pink dress because the stats on those items give you power you do want, but absolutely hate what it makes you look like? 

If Conan was real, yes he would have needed to wear armor.  And no, I've never worn a pink dress in a MMORPG.

Originally posted by Wolfsheim

That would be a great over generalizing of the things there are too do.  Exploring and Questing for instance covers a whole range of things to do depending on what kinda quests you take, and how the LORE is written and unfolds immersing you in the world your in.  The variety of experiences  you can have in just those terms can cover 100s of things to do.  You may want to be highly competitive and perfect your ability in PVP in arenas, you may want to setup and run a guild that controls a region waring with other guilds.  You may want to run around saving players from bully PKers, or you may want to be a PKer, you may just like to play chess in a pretty fantasy landcape, or who knows? Just saying that you may not like Crafting is just one aspect of so many others that you dont like.  At high level though you will be able to craft, and you will be able to multiclass at that  point learning skills outside your starter class.  Player housing will probably be added in expansion and player run cities, etc, etc.  They can add all kinds of things to gameworld, and considering all this as Not Much, is belittling all the best games ever made.

Crafting isn't just something to "do", it's developing and molding your toon the way you like your character to be. Spellborn has removed our ability to do just that.   

Originally posted by ghoul31

 

Originally posted by Wolfsheim

 

  

 

   Did Conan ever wear platemail?  Did he ever NEED to wear platemale?  Its called skill and ability.   Arent you totally sick of seeing clones of your character running around at your level wearing the same uber item of your class/level range?  Arent you sick of being forced to wear a stupid hat or pink dress because the stats on those items give you power you do want, but absolutely hate what it makes you look like? 

 

If Conan was real, yes he would have needed to wear armor.  And no, I've never worn a pink dress in a MMORPG.

 

 

  So your saying you never wore some crappy looking armor or weapon purely because you wanted the stats they gave you in that MMO?  And ya Magic and Elves and all are so REAL compared to Conan.

Originally posted by BesCirga

 

Originally posted by Wolfsheim

That would be a great over generalizing of the things there are too do.  Exploring and Questing for instance covers a whole range of things to do depending on what kinda quests you take, and how the LORE is written and unfolds immersing you in the world your in.  The variety of experiences  you can have in just those terms can cover 100s of things to do.  You may want to be highly competitive and perfect your ability in PVP in arenas, you may want to setup and run a guild that controls a region waring with other guilds.  You may want to run around saving players from bully PKers, or you may want to be a PKer, you may just like to play chess in a pretty fantasy landcape, or who knows? Just saying that you may not like Crafting is just one aspect of so many others that you dont like.  At high level though you will be able to craft, and you will be able to multiclass at that  point learning skills outside your starter class.  Player housing will probably be added in expansion and player run cities, etc, etc.  They can add all kinds of things to gameworld, and considering all this as Not Much, is belittling all the best games ever made.

 

Crafting isn't just something to "do", it's developing and molding your toon the way you like your character to be. Spellborn has removed our ability to do just that.   

What do yo mean by that?  "Spellborn has removed our ability to do just that?" In what way?  If you just like crafting and that all you mainly want to do, and for WHATEVER reason you think Spellborn's crafting wont be enough for you, then there are a ton on other MMOs already out that all do crafting in any number of ways that should keep you entertained, but there are NO mmos with anywhere near the kinda combat system that Spellborn has other than maybe AoC which remains to be seen if they can even pull off having a bunch of players onscreen at once in PVP.  I like AoC but I gotta see more positive videos of the PVP before I get any more excited about it. 

Where did I say I only like crafting? or, just play MMO's to craft?

Im hoping on Spellborn to be my next MMO, because it has alot of other positive sides. Why must always people tell others, who sees one negative aspect of a game, to go play other games? You will never find a perfect MMO and if you think you did, you are just blinded by fanboyism. imo.

Anyway, as for Spellborn's crafting system not supporting you, developing your character is pretty obvious since you dont actually craft, a NPC named Ola Nordman does it for you. You are just his errand boy. I would really like to have a discussion with whoever came up with this characterless idea. 

Im not going to debate spellborns combat system, which is an idea I absolutely love, but from my point of view, I have to say; aside from the skilldecks, DDO seems to have pretty much the same combat system.

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by Ravel_RP

Clothing without stats is a way of realising being able to look the way you like without consequence.

What is this a video game,  or Barbie dress up?

MMOs that force all to dress the same is a Barbie dress up game.

This just mean you can look as anyone else if you want.....or you can chose how you wanna look. Maybe gamers today isnt ready to take decisions for themselves...?