Darkfall

been apart of small teams achieving victory in FPS. I ahve seen 1 man make a huge difference

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

Well obviously what is there to tanking.  You sit there, and take hits.  Thats the main purpose of a tank.  YOu get hit, you get healed you use stun moves and BAM your a tank!  The fact of hte matter is, WoW is just a game that took an idea from someone else *Cough* Mythic*cough* but used their name in order to sell massive amounts o games.  

Yes i commend blizzard for that and i think its great for them and i hope they use it to make actaul good games, like they used to (starcraft II is a good investment). 

Whether its twitch combat, semi twitch (WoW, Asheron's call) or point and click, it doesnt matter what style of combat there is, it just matters what the game revolves around. 

So really Darfakll is a  MMOFPRPG (Massive multiplayer online first person role playing game |  Technicaly third person but who cares).  You dont like the idea (anyone in general)?  So what.  Thats what it is, you can level up your character, do quests, grief people or hell become a merchant, leader anything.  If thats not roleplaying then I gues the majority of roleplaying is being set to do certain things at certain times that you have to wait till Lvl XX in order to go to certain places THAT YOU CANNOT EVEN EXPLORE because they are holding you back because of a level.

Im sorry to break this to you but Darkfall is created around PVP.  But thats not the only thing to do, if you thought that, your dead wrong.  The amount of things put into darkfall that you are able to do will make WoW players be like "Wow, you mean i couldve made a character that couldve done all that instead of making 16 characters spending $xxx to switch server and then having to do each of these things on a separate character and then wasting my time killing this same instanced boss to get X amount of items that were inadequate in a month just to find out I couldve done more than this is such a smaller amount of time w/o reaching the tip of the iceburge?!? *deep breath* ""

 

I mean if you like WoW, thats cool.  Thats super, but I and most of the people that speak against it dont, and its for reasons that I kinda summed up in the last paragraph (others have more and heir free to speak it.  I mean i know darkfall wont take every little player form WoW.  But the fact is that its going to be a more solid game that has alot more to offer, im tired of the linear game i want a sandbox (Pre-cu swg, asheron's call, planetside) that wont inhibit my wants to go anywhere i please (with only the danger of huge monsters to inhibit my movement) and become anything i want w/o having to make a different character every time i want to make or become something else.

Your tank will do nothing more than cause FF and be dropped in a matter of seconds because really in darkfall its not about the tanking, its about the damage and healing capabilities, the dev's said it best "Your going to die in darkfall, alot"

So have fun getting you're uber armor in WoW an di really do wish you the best of luck, but you do decide to check out darkfall we'll welcome you with Arms unsheathed.

Tanking is a lot more then that, but you'd have to tank to know it. In WoW, tanking is all about position, timing, and threat/aggro management. These make up the 50% of playing WoW that is player skill. You won't understand how much deeper it is then "spam this button" if you haven't done it. The other 50% of WoW playing at end-game is Talent spec and gear. You are right on that, but can't seem to get past  the idea that it is also so much more due to your bias.

I love skill system based games, which I define as you pick your characters skills, and advanced those skills by using them (i.e. Oblivion, old UO) I like freedom and I like choice. I want to build my character as I want to build them, and I want to have the freedom to choose what role I play.

I hate grinding on mobs / missions/ trade skills mindlessly for hours and hours and hours. Sandbox games have both. They have the freedom to do what you want to do, to create your own content, but they also have NO content other then grinding. It may be hard to understand, but look at old UO and pre-NGE SWG. You can't deny the facts.

FPS combat has no place in a MMO due to the technological limitations of our current networks and hardware. Look at planetside, WW2 online, etc. How popular are those?

Do you really think an unknown Indy developer is going to magically figure out a way to make FPS combat work on a large, MMO scale when dozens of well funded, proven, highly successful and talented developers haven't?

*edit*

Oh, and I don't play WoW anymore. You arguments make you sound ignorant and combative. I, at least, am trying to be civil, intelligent, and intellectual. Learn from Vajuras, he knows how to argue!

Originally posted by heerobya

 

Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr

Well obviously what is there to tanking.  You sit there, and take hits.  Thats the main purpose of a tank.  YOu get hit, you get healed you use stun moves and BAM your a tank!  The fact of hte matter is, WoW is just a game that took an idea from someone else *Cough* Mythic*cough* but used their name in order to sell massive amounts o games.  

Yes i commend blizzard for that and i think its great for them and i hope they use it to make actaul good games, like they used to (starcraft II is a good investment). 

Whether its twitch combat, semi twitch (WoW, Asheron's call) or point and click, it doesnt matter what style of combat there is, it just matters what the game revolves around. 

So really Darfakll is a  MMOFPRPG (Massive multiplayer online first person role playing game |  Technicaly third person but who cares).  You dont like the idea (anyone in general)?  So what.  Thats what it is, you can level up your character, do quests, grief people or hell become a merchant, leader anything.  If thats not roleplaying then I gues the majority of roleplaying is being set to do certain things at certain times that you have to wait till Lvl XX in order to go to certain places THAT YOU CANNOT EVEN EXPLORE because they are holding you back because of a level.

Im sorry to break this to you but Darkfall is created around PVP.  But thats not the only thing to do, if you thought that, your dead wrong.  The amount of things put into darkfall that you are able to do will make WoW players be like "Wow, you mean i couldve made a character that couldve done all that instead of making 16 characters spending $xxx to switch server and then having to do each of these things on a separate character and then wasting my time killing this same instanced boss to get X amount of items that were inadequate in a month just to find out I couldve done more than this is such a smaller amount of time w/o reaching the tip of the iceburge?!? *deep breath* ""

 

I mean if you like WoW, thats cool.  Thats super, but I and most of the people that speak against it dont, and its for reasons that I kinda summed up in the last paragraph (others have more and heir free to speak it.  I mean i know darkfall wont take every little player form WoW.  But the fact is that its going to be a more solid game that has alot more to offer, im tired of the linear game i want a sandbox (Pre-cu swg, asheron's call, planetside) that wont inhibit my wants to go anywhere i please (with only the danger of huge monsters to inhibit my movement) and become anything i want w/o having to make a different character every time i want to make or become something else.

Your tank will do nothing more than cause FF and be dropped in a matter of seconds because really in darkfall its not about the tanking, its about the damage and healing capabilities, the dev's said it best "Your going to die in darkfall, alot"

So have fun getting you're uber armor in WoW an di really do wish you the best of luck, but you do decide to check out darkfall we'll welcome you with Arms unsheathed.

 

Tanking is a lot more then that, but you'd have to tank to know it. In WoW, tanking is all about position, timing, and threat/aggro management. These make up the 50% of playing WoW that is player skill. You won't understand how much deeper it is then "spam this button" if you haven't done it. The other 50% of WoW playing at end-game is Talent spec and gear. You are right on that, but can't seem to get past  the idea that it is also so much more due to your bias.

I love skill system based games, which I define as you pick your characters skills, and advanced those skills by using them (i.e. Oblivion, old UO) I like freedom and I like choice. I want to build my character as I want to build them, and I want to have the freedom to choose what role I play.

I hate grinding on mobs / missions/ trade skills mindlessly for hours and hours and hours. Sandbox games have both. They have the freedom to do what you want to do, to create your own content, but they also have NO content other then grinding. It may be hard to understand, but look at old UO and pre-NGE SWG. You can't deny the facts.

FPS combat has no place in a MMO due to the technological limitations of our current networks and hardware. Look at planetside, WW2 online, etc. How popular are those?

Do you really think an unknown Indy developer is going to magically figure out a way to make FPS combat work on a large, MMO scale when dozens of well funded, proven, highly successful and talented developers haven't?

*edit*

Oh, and I don't play WoW anymore. You arguments make you sound ignorant and combative. I, at least, am trying to be civil, intelligent, and intellectual. Learn from Vajuras, he knows how to argue!

You see the thing that makes me laugh (I dont blame you cause it sbetter to teach than flame and just keep people from wanting to steer clear of that which they feel is right). Agro management is kind of a "Need to know" thing of anything including tanking, so thats kind of not needed to be stated (Yet its good for the folks that dont really know any better so im neutral on it).

But you say " love skill system based games, which I define as you pick your characters skills, and advanced those skills by using them (i.e. Oblivion, old UO) I like freedom and I like choice. I want to build my character as I want to build them, and I want to have the freedom to choose what role I play.

I hate grinding on mobs / missions/ trade skills mindlessly for hours and hours and hours. Sandbox games have both. They have the freedom to do what you want to do, to create your own content, but they also have NO content other then grinding. It may be hard to understand, but look at old UO and pre-NGE SWG. You can't deny the facts."

Your basicaly saying you want an old school UO with Oblivion aspects.....DARKFALL IS IT.  Its like oblivion (excep tits third person in melee combat) and their main influence is UO.  

Your freedom of choice, theres over like 200 skills (500 skills+Spells yes but i dont know the exact number of JUST SKILLS but theres defintaely more than WoW lawl) To choose from.  You dont choose which ones you want persay.  You say which ones you want.  You say "I want to shovel in a farm all day"  you pick up a shovel and do it.  You say "I want to learn how to block better" you pick up a shield and do it.   "i want to learn hwo to bake pies (Asheron's call DTers know what im talkin about )  you makea  mofkin pie!!

Now your networking complications are basicaly a thing of the past.  Especially now with quad cores coming out theres so much more that can be done.  Once we have all the fiber optics in place and even got ourselves quantum transisters with the flux capaciters ready, it'll be like story telling!   (Yes im actaully just joking around with thequantam flux jazz).  

But really they even stated that performance is their main thing, they're choosing FPS over looks when it comes to 300+ people battles (which there will be when you have a n alliance benging at your castle walls looking to destroy it...whcih is 100% true).  They stated that they are doing whatever it takes to have maximum performance, including but not limited to, network.  They originaly even left out shield blocking and had it automatic (asheron's call and almost every mmo before hand, excluding DandD) because of network problems, bu tthey recently added it in to be manual.  

If you want a tanker with skill you might like darkfall, even though i used the whoel die alot in darkfall quote, you could probably see that it would be so much more fun/strategical since you have very many things you have to watch out for, including Friendly Fire.  But get this, if someone tries to heal their teamate that your attacking, if they accidentaly aim at you, they heal you.  Yes sure it could be done visa versa.

Really it sounds like your basicaly explaining that you want a game like darkfall, but fo rsome reason all you think it is is, join a server get some headshots (which do not exist in darkfall FOR BALANCE REASONS) and then log off.  When infact its not, its very much so an rpg but it takes more thinking, you have to know what to agro, where to move, where to attack, what to attack with.  Now i dont know if theres multi strike positions i wont lie (Like you stated in dark messiah, which was a very awesome game just needed more support).

But darkfall isnt for everyone, its going to be ahardcore universe that even I might not even like when is tart getting pwned.  But with full loot on death, being able to steal someones horse but jumping on its back when they get off or hell even just chopping someones head off and using it as a trophy, you can always remember.  When you respawn, and you notice how cheap weapons and armor will be for hte most part, and you see that guy walking towards you.  You know that you'd rather reak your vengeance then just let him walk away. 

Oh ya anothe rthing, hasnt there been a time when you were annoyed by some kid that keeps messing around on WoW, wouldnt you rather just pwn the hell out of him than just listen to him rag on about go dknows what especially when he KEEPS DECLINING THE DUEL INVITATION.

I gave WoW a shot and i didnt like it.  Really all im asking for you to do is accept that darkfall isnt just some random shooter that all you have to do is get a few frags and you r l33t, but much mor ehtan that.  This is the last bastion of good gaming that most us PVPrz have been looking forward to since Old school AC DT (w00t w00t) or even UO. 

You are assuming far too much about me.

I played old school UO, I enjoyed it at the time.

I played pre-NGE SWG, and I enjoyed it at the time.

I play Oblivion and I enjoy.

Darkfall is promising to have many features shared by these games. However, UO, SWG, and Oblivion were created by some of the top gaming developers on the planet, not by a 3rd party unknown Indy developer that has been working on the game for 7 years, and has been a "year from release" according to the very DF fans who patrol these forums for over 3 years.

Notice, that I said "I enjoyed it at the time."

What you missed was that I said "sandbox type games have the freedom of choice and the ability to choose your role/destiny etc. but they also have NO content besides what you the player creates."

With no content other then player created content, you grind.

You can't be involved in epic sieges and PvP warfare and naval battles etc. 100% of the time you are playing the game. It wasn't true in UO, it wasn't true in SWG, and it's not going to be true in Darkfall. You are going to spend the majority of your time grinding to make money, improve your skills etc. so that when the opportunity for epic, player created fun happens, you'll be "ready."

I know, for a fact, that this is true from my experience playing the games that Darkfall is based off of.

I enjoy Oblivion for everything but the combat. It works in that game, because everything else in the game is so good. Will it work online? No.

Why don't games like Halo 3 have 300+ person matches? Counterstrike? That's very "modern" technology, Halo 3 is a little over a month old! Have you seen what happens in ANY online game when you have 300+ people in the same area? Even with the best, most highly optimized code and game engine (which a company like Blizzard is capable of creating) it just doesn't work for 99% of the players. Only the 1% of people with super-jacked up rigs and blazing fast direct pipe connections can play with minimal lag.

Trying to design a game for that 1% of players means that the game will not be commercially successful. It may survive as a nice, fun little niche game that is highly enjoyed by a few.

And on the subject of PvP. Yes, I love fair, balanced PvP. PvP where I win because I am more skilled then the other player. I play FPS games for this, because NO MMO, especially not old school UO ever really has gotten it right.

Darkfall will be like every other FFA PvP game I have played. Gankers and griefers will love it, the rest of the population will be lambs to the slaughter. I've been a ganker/griefer, I've terrorized and victimized other players in online games... when I was 16. I have no interest in that flavor of PvP anymore, there is nothing "hardcore" about it, despite what others may try to make you believe.

Throw in full player looting? You just wrecked the game for me. Unless gear means just about absolutely nothing like it did in old UO, then full looting is a terrible idea. But if gear has no meaning, why make it lootable? It's just an added annoyance invented by people who think it's "hardcore."

The rest of us figured out a long time ago that there is nothing hardcore about this kind of game. It's difficult, frustrating, and tedius. The difficult part isn't bad, at all, I agree that most modern MMOs (including WoW) could stand to have some aspects made more challenging, but frustration and tedium are not something I want to pay for.

---

Originally posted by Electricdawn

---

been apart of small teams achieving victory in FPS. I ahve seen 1 man make a huge difference

---

Just to remind you, the last dev post said something about "Ping not being important as Darkfall wouldn't be an FPS".

Don't get your hopes up too much, guys.

---

There has already been MMOs with realtime combat in the past I am not getting my hopes up I know what to expect based on experiences with similar features in the past. Realtime combat in MMOs has been here for quite some time

Originally posted by heerobya

 

Originally posted by vajuras

1. MMOs have always had realtime combat see Asheron's Call 1 for example.
2. Depends on FPS game in question how much "skill" is in question

my site appears to be down so I'll go from memory:

- Knowledge of Terrain is KEY, paramount to taking victory. I have seen small groups achieve victory by having knowledge of where to find cover, bottlenecks, etc.

- Friendly Fire. Every FPS gamer knows if you lob around Area of Effect without caution and notifying teammates you can massacre your own allies

- Dodging. Warriors die to Mages due to inability to Dodge. Meleers are a force in traditional FPS because they can dodge fire

- Cover. Newbies die all the time in FPS games that have snipers. Running out in the open = DEATH. This is why I say average cookie cutter MMO has poor PVP. In real life it is death to run out in the open w/o surverying the terrain and ensuring you have cover

- Lack of TAB key. This means players cant 'target call' on Ventrillo and spike a target with impunity. In Guild Wars we would target call and destroy our enemies before they could click a key

I have to run to lunch and stuff but this is just some meager points off the top of my head. I have seen it daily- been apart of small teams achieving victory in FPS. I ahve seen 1 man make a huge difference

 

Ok, you just went into detail about what I said that FPS games require you to take advantage of opportunities (and/or create them) and are all about positioning. I'm not debating that.

I'm just saying that Darkfall will not be like that. It will be like Fury or Oblivion in terms of how FPS it is.

You want fantasy FPS play Dark Messiah. That is fantasy FPS done right. If they make Darkfall like that, it may be a good combat game.