Accept the principle that this game is Pay-To-Beta, and you will all be much happier.

QQ more? L2P if you cant play without rage 5

Dude, Rage is super overpowered and needs to be nerfed, in a big way.

25% increase for Pump V seems about right.

Because as it is now, I just run around, get all the bad guys following me, wait until I've rounded up oh about 20 or 30... hit Rage V, and within a couple blasts of my shotty, they baddies are dead.

But that is what this game is supposed to be about taking on many aliens at once and bashing them on the head.

 It is a drastic nurf andas I said I won't be using rage later but they are willing to smack it so hard makes me want to run run for the hills.

Rage nurf is coming fine now everyone will spec shrapnel next month shrapnel will do an extreme amount of less damage.

People will always find a new way to pump out that extra damage and people are having fun but developers keep coming and destroying the fun we have.  Why not let us have fun?

Some dev's have nurfed things so bad that they lost a couple of hundred thousand subs over night. I know this for a fact as I am in contact with the industry as an insider.

The news of this makes me sad, as my main character is on the Soldier branch.

Admittedly, I can understand the need to nerf Rage. But I think 25% is a little too severe of a nerf - perhaps 50% at pump 5 would have been right (+10% for each level you pump it). I can live with the doubled cost of adrenaline to cast it - picking off single little trash mobs to build adrenaline in this game isn't hard.

Ultimately, though, even if it stands at 25%, I'll keep playing my soldier and get by just fine. It's still a fun game even if my power has been reduced. I'll just have to figure out new ways to deal with intense situations where I usually relied on Rage to get through.

Originally posted by Wicaa

But that is what this game is supposed to be about taking on many aliens at once and bashing them on the head.

 It is a drastic nurf andas I said I won't be using rage later but they are willing to smack it so hard makes me want to run run for the hills.

Rage nurf is coming fine now everyone will spec shrapnel next month shrapnel will do an extreme amount of less damage.

People will always find a new way to pump out that extra damage and people are having fun but developers keep coming and destroying the fun we have.  Why not let us have fun?

Some dev's have nurfed things so bad that they lost a couple of hundred thousand subs over night. I know this for a fact as I am in contact with the industry as an insider.

 

 

They buffed things like Air Strike and Crab Mines, though. And Reinforcements are also supposed to be getting a buff to their AI. Perhaps the intention is to get players to rely on a broader base of Logos powers instead of just pumping one (Rage) to 5 and depending on that for every single situation that could possibly ever confront them.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Originally posted by MeTaL

its called balancing...even if you cant see the bigger picture yet it serves a purpose. maybe its not meant to be frequently used or doubling your whole groups damage. or its too powerful in pvp perhaps?

Balancing is supposed to be completed prior to releasing a game. That's what testing is supposed to be about.

There's always things you just can't test for.  There are things in a beta that are scaled to the smaller community and the player base is always smart enough to figure out new and unexpected ways to use things so when the floodgates open at launch new issues will always arise.  Yes, sweeping, large scale changes after launch are ridiculous, but tweaking is always gonna have to happen.  I haven't read the patch notes so I don't know what the case is here.

What really amazes me is that people say they are sick of this stuff always happening. Did you not think this was going to happen in this game?? And if you knew it was going to happen and your willing to quit over it, then why did you buy the game? .... Amazing.

Most of the people complaining probably aren't even level 30+ yet. Aswell think that balancing a new game means. incomming nerfs or game breaking changes.

Which is not the case, rage needs to be changed. We all know it. Rather it be for PvP or PvE.

Quit thinking it's gamebreaker. Rather how about know at least the game is taking needed steps in the right directions. It's still a fun game.

To those who are claiming to quit due to one change. All i have to say is either be prepared for countless more, or go play something like WoW, cause class changes have NEVER happened there, or the countless other MMO's

It's what makes a mmo fun to play, changes, content, and constant updates.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Originally posted by MeTaL

its called balancing...even if you cant see the bigger picture yet it serves a purpose. maybe its not meant to be frequently used or doubling your whole groups damage. or its too powerful in pvp perhaps?

Balancing is supposed to be completed prior to releasing a game. That's what testing is supposed to be about.

balance is never achieved in a short time. things have to settle in and since you cant keep a game beta forever since you need the money sooner or later it will swap over to the retail. its always like this with mmos, they always patch and nerf and buff things and thats totally ok. you might think its unfair at first but eventually it'll be for the better. starcraft took a long time till it was balanced like it is today (and they still work on it).

Personally I think Rage needs to be nerfed.  Dont get me wrong.  I LOVE being able to have nerf up indefinitely, with little adrenaline cost, and killing mobs on easy mode.  Its fun dealing out that much damage.

But its obviously not the way it was meant to be used.  If the dev's wanted us to have 100% damage constantly, they would have just given it to us.  I think Rage was meant to be like any other skill, something you can activate some of the time or save it up for a crazy fight you otherwise wouldn't survive without it.

I do not think the Rage changes will really make that much of a difference. I have not had a chance to test it out so for now I will withhold judgement.

With the Rage changes, I am sure it is more of a way to get people to play more on the specialist side of the skill tree - instead of the majority going down soldier because of a single damage buff (at quite a low level tier).

If you are enjoying the game, I seriously doubt the changes will change your mind.

Long story short: Rage is not being nerfed.

Read the patch notes on test properly:

"Known Issues:

The Rage ability description is incorrect."

If this nerf is really due to a PvP balance issue the % from rage should be dependant on the target.

IF !Target = PC, Rage  = 25% (assuming 5 points)

IF !Target = NPC, Rage  = 100% (assuming 5 points)

I have a spy and a sniper so rage nerf is going to hit where it hurts.

And while it's going to hurt like hell, from a design perspective, I agree that rage was totally overpowered.  basically it was unlimited double-damage buff for the entire group.  It was excessive and unbalanced many of the class specific abilities.

I will definitely miss it, but I think it's the right call.  I hope everyone gets a clone when they nerf it.

edit:  I do agree that nerfing the group element or the duration (to like 20 seconds) would have been a viable solution also.

I don't think I've ever played an MMO where there wern't major class balance changes in the first three months.  I remember in WoW warriers got turbo nerfed just prior to launch, and it took them 3-4 months to fix their rage generation.  I played one at launch, and they damn near bit.  In DAoC, around month 2 or 3 (if I remember right) Smite clerics went from being awesome to useless gimps (and so they have remained).  In LoTRO, they took one of the most solid hunter abilities and made it borderline useless last month. In CoH Blasters went from being gods to one of the hardest classes to play.  Hell, they were still nerfing the crap out of things left and right in that game a year after launch in CoH.  Lot of folks are still pissed about  "enhancement diversification."

In any case, it seems to be an unwritten rule of MMOs that beta goes from two months prior to launch to six months after. 

After reviewing the test realm patch notes I see nothing about a nerf to Rage.

Only the following: "

• Rage tooltip is missing duration information.

"

So where is the proof?

Taken from the orginal notes from the Play NCLauncher (i had copied them to my clan's forum)

The Rage abilitiy was providing damage bonuses that were much higher than intended. These have been corrected, and their ability UI tooltips updated to match.

However looking via the web site this line has gone missing...

Thus proving that Test notes != Live server notes..

Tin foil hats away now please... :)

Originally posted by Kremlik

 

Originally posted by starbead

The TR devs don't know how to nerf.  They always go to ludicrous extremes. 

Changing a skill from 100% increase to a 25% increase with twice the casting cost is not a nerf, it is an annihilation.  If Rage needed that big a nerf, it is totally unacceptable for the game to have shipped in that state.

Just prior to release they (all but) removed the stealth functionality from Stealth armor and only after a huge outcry did they bump stealth back to a point halfway between where it was and where it had been.  In that case, the nerf was completely unnecessary and made no sense at all.

Rage may be OP, but it couldn't have been THAT OP.  It literally isn't the same skill anymore.  They should call it Miffed or Mildly Annoyed.

The game was at least 3 months from release-ready when it shipped.  The devs don't know the difference between tweaking balance and completely changing the nature of a class.  There is nowhere near enough content to justify a full $15 a month fee, let alone with the game still in beta mode (bug fixes on a two week push, sweeping class changes, basic features to be added in).  And they plan to have a retail expansion out in a year.

I really want to like TR, but can't in its current state.  It is one that I will keep my eye on and see if they ever get their act together, but it just isn't deep enough to ever be my main MMO.  If they get it together, it may suffice until the next wave of real MMOs comes along.

 

Actally The DO know how to ' nerf ' things, unlike a lot of devs that continuly guess what would be a good total to have a skill at, get it wrong, then change it again to get it wrong and continuly change it, these guys take the skill down to it's bare minimum on perpose to see how much it needs to be buffed by to be effective.

No one as yet relised that these notes ARE TEST SERVER NOTES and yet relieased that these may not carry over to the actal server hence why there IS a test server, but as no one bothers to help test these nerfs to prove that it wont work, your just going to have to bitch whine then quit that the game is 'broken' because it isn't in 'ez mode' wont you?

So, are you always this angry or only when doing something really important like defending the honor of a GAME.

I stated that a change that massive is not typical of a released game.  It is not post-release balancing, which should be tweaking, but beta-level sweeping change.  The skill wasn't nerfed, it was changed on a fundamental level.  The DG devs have a history of overkill when nerfing, which has made some classes unplayable while they decided how much too far they went. 

I fail to see how that is "bitch whin[ing]".  I made my points calmly and backed them up logically.  You may disagree, but you can't dismiss it that easily.  If you want to dispute the points I made, please respond in an adult manner.  And, for the record, at no point did I ever use the words "ez mode" or "broken".

TR is fun when it works, but it was released too early and everyone who was in the beta (not the last minute FilePlanet people, the actual testers) knows it.  Had they waited and released a finished product (keeping in mind that tweaking is constant in MMOs) I would be playing it now instead of waitinng to see if they get a retail ready product before they add a retail expansion.  Sadly, most people will NOT keep an eye on a game that has a buggy release, so the future growth opportunities are limited. 

I played a LOT of TR in the beta and had high hopes for it.  That is the only reason it is still on my radar.  I make my criticims out of affection for the game, not anger.  If a change from 100% bonus to 25% with double the cost is the type of nerf that DG considers appropriate for a retail product, then it isn't a game for me.  Only time will tell if they will continue this pattern or finally come out of beta in a few months.  I'll always have fond memories of my time with TR, even if it ends up being something that I wouldn't pay for.

Lastly, I find your criticism about no one playing on the test server misguided.  3 weeks into release no one SHOULD be playing on the test server.  There shouldn't be that much to test.  Three weeks in, people should be enjoying the game in a (relatively) bug-free state, not testing the latest bug fixes.  It is funny that a lot of people here have referred to the first 3-12 months as pay-to-beta, and you are taking it a step further and suggesting that people should spend $50 on a just-released game to play on the test (beta?) server.

Originally posted by Wicaa

Run mmo children run for the god damn hills the nurf bat is coming and instead of a bat it is a mighty titanium ogre club of death.

To paint the picture, I have several characters biotech, ranger and commando all over level 20.  My ranger at the moment uses level 5 rage while I level it. My final build does not include rage.

Rage is the skill in question, at the current level it does 100% more damage for me and my group for 60 seconds.  Cast animation time is quite long added up during a days play. They are bringing it down to 25% at level 5 and almost doubling the adrenaline costs.

I am tired, sick and tired of enjoying a game then the nurf bat destroying my experience I have had it done to me all the time and even on toons that are far from the overpowered spectrum.

If they are being so drastic in this measure whats next? Sacrifice? Shredded Ammo? Injection guns are pretty powerful why not them? These nurfs are coming in while high level sapper cant afford ammo for their polarity guns and many many fixes are needed, yet they focus obvious attention on nurfs.

My subscription is cancelled if I do not receive a free clone credit for the nurf then it will stay cancelled.