Originally posted by miffywiffy

seems abit biased to me

Completely...

Originally posted by Strayfe

The game has its faults.  I will itemize them here, just so I don't get called a fanboy.

I would say that is to late, as it is that you actually had positive attitude against the game your label Vanboy.

:)

On the other hand would you have written this 3-4 months ago you would have seen 20+ pages of pure evil hatred on you. ;)

Edit: Ok, I saw that Sturmrabe babe is back atleast.

Originally posted by Orphes

 

Originally posted by Strayfe

The game has its faults.  I will itemize them here, just so I don't get called a fanboy.

 

I would say that is to late, as it is that you actually had positive attitude against the game your label Vanboy.

:)

On the other hand would you have written this 3-4 months ago you would have seen 20+ pages of pure evil hatred on you. ;)

He still deserves it, but noone needs to do so anymore, the truth has gotten out, and playing it makes it as plane as the nose on ones face... until they hide it behind a noobie isle

I'd also like to point out one thing I've noticed in this forum.  The people who enjoy the game are making well thought out posts as to exactly what they like about it, and why.  Whereas the people who clearly dislike the game are posting one-liners, vague references, innuendo, hearsay, allusions and appear, at least from an observer's perspective, to have no objective reasoning for their opinion.

Those of you who don't like Vanguard, tell us why.  Carry on a discussion, it's what forums are for.  Nobody is impressed by your potshots.  See?  I can do it too.  Watch.

I wonder if there is any correlation between peoples' inability to articulate a coherent thought regarding why they dislike Vanguard, and their dislike of Vanguard itself. Could it be because said people... dare I say it... lack the mental faculties to truly enjoy a game with more to it than World of Warcraft?  Occam's Razor after all.

I respect your right to have an opinion, but many people it seems are abusing that right.  If you have a certain perspective, and you offer that perspective to the public.  Be prepared to defend it, or else keep it to yourself.

Agree pretty much with the review, a few 10/10s were possibly a bit overzealous but there are some very nice aspects to the game, I really enjoyed playing the biggest downside for me was no endgame content,  and none in sight for the next 6 months that led to my leaving the game, (and the ease of soloing was not what was promised, it was supposed to be a group-centric game) but if they invest heavily in fixing the bugs (I put up with them the first time around, but expect them to be fixed if I was to return) and enjoyable endgame content with stuff to do both inside and out of raids then I could quite happily return, however it remains to be seen if SOE want to turn it around, EQ2 was in a pretty bad shape and they managed to turn that into a very nice game by all accounts, I dont know if the skeleton crew they have working on VG is a sign of them mothballing the game.

I'll keep watching for news on VG, it's the game i want to play, they just need to turn it into the game it should have been.

My video card isn't good enough to make it pretty.

Besides that, I really enjoyed the game play.. except for the bugs of course.

When they re-release the game and offer a free trial isle, and assuming I've bought my new nvidia 8600/8800 by then...

I'd love to give VG another try.

Diplomacy did seem silly to me, and I didn't even try crafting in beta.

I too hate when people expect combat in MMORPGs to be any different then we see in games like EQ, WoW, VG....

Tabula Rasa is so far the only MMORPG combat that isn't "traditional" that I actually enjoy.

It's called "mmo RPG" for a reason! RPG combat! dice rolls and stats, not twitch skills and aiming. You could probably kick a few games off the MMORPG.com game list if you followed those rules, or changed the site to MMOG.com.

Originally posted by Strayfe

I'd also like to point out one thing I've noticed in this forum.  The people who enjoy the game are making well thought out posts as to exactly what they like about it, and why.  Whereas the people who clearly dislike the game are posting one-liners, vague references, innuendo, hearsay, allusions and appear, at least from an observer's perspective, to have no objective reasoning for their opinion.

Those of you who don't like Vanguard, tell us why.  Carry on a discussion, it's what forums are for.  Nobody is impressed by your potshots.  See?  I can do it too.  Watch.

I wonder if there is any correlation between peoples' inability to articulate a coherent thought regarding why they dislike Vanguard, and their dislike of Vanguard itself. Could it be because said people... dare I say it... lack the mental faculties to truly enjoy a game with more to it than World of Warcraft?  Occam's Razor after all.

I respect your right to have an opinion, but many people it seems are abusing that right.  If you have a certain perspective, and you offer that perspective to the public.  Be prepared to defend it, or else keep it to yourself.

Strafye, this is MMORPG.com...land of the very opinionated player.  Lots of these players are very "jaded" so you have to kind of roll with them and see it from their perspective.  They're burned out on game companies broken promises and broken games.   I've come to the point where it best to just let them say what they want to say and I'll say my peace and move on.   I am not a huge fan of SOE myself and won't bite my tongue and be a "yes girl" to everything they throw at us in Vanguard.  In fact I am kinda rabid myself when it comes to them messing with Vanguard.   However, SOE is actually doing pretty good with the over all game so far - yes even the new ranger changes are a good thing once they iron out the changes.   I know there are going to be detractors within the game and those outside of it.   I still say this is one of the best "potential" MMORPG's on the market today and if SOE plays their cards right and continues to make the game better with each patch(and they are defiantely doing this) then Vanguard will be a great game in the very near future.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying.  The game does have its faults, and the future of the game is contingent upon whether or not SOE actively fixes them.  If they just LEAVE the bugs in the game, then things won't improve much overall.  Just because something can be improved, doesn't mean it will be.  I'm basing most of my opinions of this on the fact that the devs are actively participating in discussions with the players on the official forums.  This is a positive sign that hopefully means that things which need to be addressed will be.

I still don't have any respect for people who badmouth things and refuse to explain why.

Originally posted by Strayfe

Yeah, I understand what you're saying.  The game does have its faults, and the future of the game is contingent upon whether or not SOE actively fixes them.  If they just LEAVE the bugs in the game, then things won't improve much overall.  Just because something can be improved, doesn't mean it will be.  I'm basing most of my opinions of this on the fact that the devs are actively participating in discussions with the players on the official forums.  This is a positive sign that hopefully means that things which need to be addressed will be.

I still don't have any respect for people who badmouth things and refuse to explain why.

Yes...they, the developers, are communicating with us on almost a daily basis now and this...this is a good thing!  I have never seen this much chatter from the SOE developers and their playrers as they are showing lately with Vanguard.  I can honestly say that they must really care for the game and what we think because they are posting and they are explaining the why's and wherefores of their changes, fixes, and tweaks.  

Now if they'll keep this up I'll stop being such a pain in their arse and start actually praising them to a point....nah...thats going a bit far for me...so I'll just do the next best thing and keep promoting their games and playing them. 

Originally posted by Sturmrabe

Originally posted by miffywiffy

seems abit biased to me

Completely...

It's rather tough in this particular situation for a person to give any opinion on a particular game when others have an opposing view.  This community isn't known for its understanding nature. 

You couldn't say any review for that matter would be completely unbiased when, at the end of the review, they give a score dictating whether the game is enjoyable or not.  To all those who dislike the game for their own reasons, they are not reasons in which make the game bad. The main focus is pointed towards what makes this game playable, and Vanguard in all of its entirety, is just that.

I recently came back to Vanguard after long hiatus to notice that, even though not much has changed in terms of game play, stability has increased exponentially.  With that being said I've enjoyed my time playing, much more then some of the other games that have recently come out. 

Although there are many out there who may find Diplomacy and Crafting boring, the systems are undoubtedly original and rewarding in most respects.  A game that gives you more options then "Killing, Looting, and Repeating"  is definitely a game worth looking into. 

This game has started to fill a void that has been since Star Wars Galaxies introduced the New Game Enhancements.  It may not have as great of an economy, or a community of amazing, pleasant to be around veterans, but it is a game that for now, I can call home.  I was indeed surprised by my return to SOE to give Vanguard another try.  The Vanguard team so far has spoken about enhancements that they will make to the game.  I am a little weary, but they assure us all that they will listen to the community before making any decisions.  Perhaps it is my naivety, but I believe them.  All I can really do at this point is play the game for what it is.  I hope everyone who has read the Original Posters Review will consider taking a look at this game, which really does deserve a second chance.

Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch.

From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.

Honestly, I played this game during its open beta period, and had high hopes for it. Like most everyone else I was highly dissapointed at the state the game was it.. so i never bothered picking it up.

I had heard that they did some tweaks to fix some performance issues and last week my wife and I picked the game up. Its got its issues, but you know, its not a bad game.  If you are picking it up for the first time, this is what I would have expected the game to be at release.. so for me.. thats what it is.  Likelly the same for other players that are just now really giving the game a try.   I can understand that those folks that did play at release are rightfully upset at how things went down, but for a new player to VG.. its not bad to me.

Originally posted by Sturmrabe

Originally posted by Orphes

 

Originally posted by Strayfe

The game has its faults.  I will itemize them here, just so I don't get called a fanboy.

 

I would say that is to late, as it is that you actually had positive attitude against the game your label Vanboy.

:)

On the other hand would you have written this 3-4 months ago you would have seen 20+ pages of pure evil hatred on you. ;)

He still deserves it, but noone needs to do so anymore, the truth has gotten out, and playing it makes it as plane as the nose on ones face... until they hide it behind a noobie isle

And why does someone deserve a flame because they like something you don't? Get over it...

Great review though, just because you like it doesn't make you biased. You came into it with an open mind and that is all that matters. Glad you are having fun!

Yes the world is lifeless and the quests are meaningless.  Sure you may have started in a raid on a village but for how long did that mean anything.  That story is droppped and forgotten by the time you reach the next level practically.   When do you ever get to deal with the ramifications of working for or turning against the evil emperor of Tanvu?  Compare that to Lord of the Rings online where your story follows you through the game, where instanced events put you in a world where things are happening.  A town gets attacked by bandits and set on fire your actions resolve the event.  In Vanguard that raid continues to happen in the background, what you do means nothing.  Pirates of the burning sea is coming out and it will have meaningful events like take control of a port for your nation.  Vanguard is old school lackluster gameplay.

Diplomacy gives out buffs, yes it does, however the buffs are pretty weak and you could get something better from a spell caster close to your level in most cases.  I will give them credit for expanding the radius of the diplomacy buffs.  Initially it was limited to just the towns but now it's spread to the outpost as well. 

The big problem with the game though is that the vast majority of it's content is grinding.  Diplomacy has very little content past the opening racial lines (which were all good).  You grind civic diplomacy for hundreds of hours to get your skill up and your presence up so you can do the smattering of quests in the game.  It's weak. 

Crafting is just the same.  Sure they added complications to try and spice things up but the whole idea of building a picture frame or a set of bowls is just not compelling.  You do batch orders like that hundreds and thousands of times to get your skill up and eventually maybe get to make a useful item, if you can get the recipe. 

Many of the biggest adventuring quests arent any better.  It's grind out kills to get faction before you can even start the quest.  Or kill hundreds of creatures to get a drop that you need 10 of to get one piece of a recipe that will eventually give you a decent item. 

For people who have unlimited time and like to do repetitive monotonous things they may enjoy this game.  I know a few people who like to watch tv and barely pay attention to Vanguard while they craft or do diplomacy, it's easy to do there's little thought to either process.  I understand your fresh to the game, and yeah I enjoyed it too up until the mid teens.  From there it kept getting worse and worse, more monotonous and more repetitive.

Originally posted by caldis

 

 

Yes the world is lifeless and the quests are meaningless.  Sure you may have started in a raid on a village but for how long did that mean anything.  That story is droppped and forgotten by the time you reach the next level practically.   When do you ever get to deal with the ramifications of working for or turning against the evil emperor of Tanvu?  Compare that to Lord of the Rings online where your story follows you through the game, where instanced events put you in a world where things are happening.  A town gets attacked by bandits and set on fire your actions resolve the event.  In Vanguard that raid continues to happen in the background, what you do means nothing.  Pirates of the burning sea is coming out and it will have meaningful events like take control of a port for your nation.  Vanguard is old school lackluster gameplay.

Diplomacy gives out buffs, yes it does, however the buffs are pretty weak and you could get something better from a spell caster close to your level in most cases.  I will give them credit for expanding the radius of the diplomacy buffs.  Initially it was limited to just the towns but now it's spread to the outpost as well. 

The big problem with the game though is that the vast majority of it's content is grinding.  Diplomacy has very little content past the opening racial lines (which were all good).  You grind civic diplomacy for hundreds of hours to get your skill up and your presence up so you can do the smattering of quests in the game.  It's weak. 

Crafting is just the same.  Sure they added complications to try and spice things up but the whole idea of building a picture frame or a set of bowls is just not compelling.  You do batch orders like that hundreds and thousands of times to get your skill up and eventually maybe get to make a useful item, if you can get the recipe. 

Many of the biggest adventuring quests arent any better.  It's grind out kills to get faction before you can even start the quest.  Or kill hundreds of creatures to get a drop that you need 10 of to get one piece of a recipe that will eventually give you a decent item. 

For people who have unlimited time and like to do repetitive monotonous things they may enjoy this game.  I know a few people who like to watch tv and barely pay attention to Vanguard while they craft or do diplomacy, it's easy to do there's little thought to either process.  I understand your fresh to the game, and yeah I enjoyed it too up until the mid teens.  From there it kept getting worse and worse, more monotonous and more repetitive.

Sounds like just about every other MMORPG out there...yep...sure does.   There is a huge, huge difference though.  Vanguard is huge!  Three huge continents to explore.  A european flaovered one, oriental flaovered one and a middle-eastern flaovered one.  Vanguard has many, many classes that are not all cookie cutter.  Vanguard has free roaming mounts(both on the ground and in the air) and ships!   Vanguard is pretty much the fantasy version of SWG as someone else mentioned.   Vanguard will mature in time and it is starting to shine.  

The difference is other games are innovating with new and better gameplay.  Vanguard is less innovative than wow.  A few Ui additions is about it.  Diplomacy as implemented is not an innovation. Seriously all the huge world does is give you the ability to fight in the different regions at every level.  Wow has as much variation in it's zone, you just cant access them until you hit the right level.

The classes in Vanguard while nice in terms of gameplay but they are all generic and nonsensical.  You can have a group with an Orc Dread Knight, a Dark Elf Necromancer, a High Elf Paladin, a Dwarven Cleric, a Vulmane Ranger, and a Qalian Bard.  What kind of realistic world would have this bunch of individuals working together?  How can you feel any sense of immersion in this blatantly unrealistic world.

Nice review, and a nice discussion that follows it. Makes we want to pick it up and try it out. Do they have a free trial by any chance?

Anyhoo, even though the review and the following discussion caught my attention, I still have this feeling that this game will steal all my time, and that I would have used my time better if I played another singleplayer RPG. It is important for me that the MMO element is there; I would like to hear your opinion on grouping and raiding and inter-player economy and all that has to do with the "MMO" element of the genre. Since things generally takes longer to accomplish, and usually takes much more monotonous tasks, it is important that I am rewarded with something in return - with a focus on the MMO aspect.

Anyway, thanks for a thourough review. Still remians to see if I will try it out though.

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch.

From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.

Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.

Originally posted by TedDanson

 

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch.

From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.

I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.

 

Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.

VG is crap...nuff said

Originally posted by Hrica

Originally posted by TedDanson

 

Originally posted by finnmacool1

Aside from finding your 86 out of 100 "score" hilarious, you seem to forget the game you are attempting to "review" has been out a year now. The bashing this game received was well deserved at launch.

From all signs it appears after subscribers paying $oe for a year to play an alpha/beta product it is finally approaching a release state. As far as the community, expect it to take a turn for the worse if the game is ever able to fill more than 4 servers. There is a reason the games with the most players have the worse communities.

I believe this game was released in january or february of this year...unless we are all time travelers a year has definitely NOT passed.

 

Maybe over exagerating makes your point feel more valid, but it definitely doesn't make me believe it anymore.

VG is crap...nuff said

You do not make the final decision on what is good or what is bad. Get your elitist attitude in check, and get off your high horse.