Have you seen the movie?  I need to talk about it.....

I just watched it, and I'm appauled at how our country (US) does things.  We are brought up as a little kid, pledging alliegance to the flag, and being told how our country is the best in the world.  But during your lifetime of growing up, you begin to open your eyes. 

Our health system just plainly sucks.  At this moment, I'm trying to save money to finish up some dental work, that I'm getting a "good" deal on......$6,000!  My insurance only pays for 1k of that!  The rest, comes out of my pocket.  And that's only dealing with 6 teeth.  And my issue is only a drop in the bucket for many other people out there, who have MUCH more expensive procedures planned or going on. 

But incase you missed it, let's change the subject from our Health System.  Did you pick up on the parts of the movie talking about other countries benefits to employees?!  Mandatory 5 weeks of paid vacation time?!  I've been working with my company for 4 years now....I get 2.  And when I want to take some time off, it's like pulling teeth.  Oh, and if you get sick....5 days, that's it.  If you need more, they "might" let you have the time off, but no pay.  And if it's in an extreme case, you'll be lucky to even keep your job!  My wife nearly screamed when she heard about the 6 months paid maturnity leave (and an optional additional 6 more unpaid).  We just had 3 kids in the past 4 years.  My wife got 6 WEEKS paid for each......$100 a week?!?!  It's ridiculous.  What kind of leave did I get?  None.  I had to take my vacation time so I'd get paid.   I believe in the video they mention other countries give the father 3 weeks paid!

So, my fellow Americans, if you ever get depressed about this "world", and this "life".......here's a tip for you.  It's not the world or this life.  It's this country -- the truest representation of the rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

well the business being greedy thing works both ways ... if employess demand 25$ an hour, it makes what ever that company does cost more. This applies to doctors , taco bell staff , etc... so as long as we think that we need 25 $ an hour to do something a person in another country wants 5$ an hour for, everything is going to cost alot more than it actually should in the US including services such as insurance, medical care , etc.  

its a nasty cycle, but one where both the people who live here and work here and the companies they work for are at fault.

BTW that was a great movie , one of his best, but i also look at it as entertainment b/c he is know to strech the truth for dramatic purposes. doesnt mean it isnt a problem but the solution isnt one that just business' need to come up with but that the workers need to assist.

Actually, I don't blame the business, or the employers.  I fully understand what you're saying, that they can't just start paying more, etc.  It's not the wages I'm talking about though.  It's about benefits, that should be government regulated.  Free Healthcare, more paid leave, etc.  The way it's geared now, is all towards greed, not happiness or contentment. 

They cant afford to pay it , the govt dosnt have the money to do the crap we demand they do  now ...

so where will they get the money to pay for these services? more taxes?

The costs are higher than they should be because of the cost of business in the US. until that drops ALOT there is no way to do it.

and more paid leave = everything that company does will cost more b/c it lowers productivity so you make less money overall and things cost more.

The Bush administration has put us in one of the biggest debts that this country has ever seen.  Due to it's "war on terrorism" (that strayed away from terror) "Drug act that cheapens drugs for the elderly" (drugs are now more expensive for a majority of the seniors that were supposedly going to be covered) "outsourcing jobs" (While your blaming the Mexicans [Or other race] for taking your job, the white man that is supposedly your friend and leader is letting jobs go to other countries and pushing more and more immigrants into the country to have jobs)

I find it sad that we have not found a reason to impeach George W. Bush.  "The powers that be" (people with money) do not want good for everyone, they just want more money for themselves.  Bush is one of these powers that be.  He is known to have been and still is in the oil industry and he's getting paid off by multi-billion corporations to help push through bullshit legislations and laws that hand our country over to his friends and buddies rather than the people who can do the best job, just so he can benefit in the end.

If we did not end up in this war how we are right now, we wouldn't be so deep in debt or in this situation.  Taking taxes for national health care is not as bad as everyone thinks.  If you watched the special features of SiCKO then you would have seen the clips from television shows bashing Michael Moore and his view that Socialized Health Care is better than what we have, you would have noticed that they were all proven wrong in the movie and they are more than likely part of "the powers that be" with greed and deceit so deep rooted in their pockets that it's in their hearts.

Now I must also say this, I do not want to 100% agree with Michael Moore or 100% disagree because I have not done my research.  One thing I do know is the stories told in SiCKO are horrifying and I find it appauling that we allow things like this to happen to fellow humans let alone fellow Americans.  We need to and can do something about this.  As Tony Benn summed it up, we need to treat our fellow human beings the same way we would want to be treated and we must also not allow our government to stomp all over us, we must rise up and do something now. 

***Support H.R. 676***

P.S. ~ I cried when the Cuban firefighters stood at attention for our American 9/11 rescue workers.  How can people, who we have been told our whole life are evil, heartless, and our enemy, be so kind, respectful, and lend a helping hand to a fellow human being when we can't even do it our selves.

It's to bad there isn't a documentary that shows the other side of the arguement.

I'm in the UK and while I certainly appreciate the paid holiday leave I get and that I wouldn't have to pay for essential medical treatment, about half of the money I earn makes its way into government or council coffers (and I'm not a high earner) and our high street prices, not to mention housing prices are some of the more expensive in the world.

High taxes can have a bad effect on he psyche of a nation, in that many people expect the government to do things for them rather than being self-reliant and they expect the government to do things for others and so are less likely to give to charities (especially when the government takes so much that you can only just get by).

There's good and bad in a national health service. Our medical staff are generally overworked and underpaid, there are the usual inefficiences of nationalised industry and even with high taxes, our hospitals are severely underfunded and priortising cases means long waiting list for patients seen as needing non-urgent procedures. I believe there are other European countries who do it better than us, but I wouldn't say it is necessarily an all-round a better system than the USA have.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the US, can't you pay for medical insurance which covers more if not all of the costs of needed medical procedures?

well all i can say after all this is ...

then fix it.

stop asking the govt to solve all our problems , and ponie up and accept some responsibility and do something to warrant change.

Change happens not because its asked for but because its caused.

Stop waiting , start doing.

Pretty simple formula.

Easy to say - "You! American Government listen up fix this issue , now!

really hard to say yes il donate half my income to help ,

or go pay for medical insurance for 1 family that doesnt have it, that only about what  200$ a month? how much do you spend on crap u never use?.

Quit asking people to do it for you , problems arent solved by whining about them and then hoping someone ELSE fixes the problem they are fixed when people , real , regualr people take care of it.

cant afford to pay for someone else? the go grass roots and collect money from local businesses and set up some non profit company that will pay insurance for people using those donations.

Take a proactive step and stop waitng for some magic formula that the govt has to discover to solve them. its not their job to do that , its ours as citizens.

I dont think low skill workers with no education should be paid too much money and benefits so the company should be forced into bancruptcy or become unprofitable, and Of course if you have an education  and a more demanding job you should be paid more.

 On the other hand if I was being paid 6 dollars an hour with 2 weeks paid vacation working the register at a gas station, actually a demanding job at times, I would be a little upset if an executive in the same corporation was given a 400 mil bonus, true story I think. I would be upset if i was a stockholder also. I find it  laughable when people say there is no money to pay workers decent wages when looking at what is given to people at the top . And dont get me started on politicians they suck also. Please refrain from telling me to go back to the cccp if I dont like it.

what did he do to earn that bonus?

what if he did something that allowed the company to save 4 billion over 10 years or instead of closing half their stores and cutting off alot of employee benfits ,meaning people lose their jobs and/or benefits , those places stay open and/or the company stil pays for insurance?

pointless bonuses do exist ,but not all of them are.

Gorair  " what did he do to earn that bonus.... maybe he saved the company 4 billions...." 

  I hear those arguments often and I just DONT BUY IT, sorry. 

I bet he didnt do jack squat , or maybe he just did his job. Actually i think they are overated. Heck I bet I can do a better job than alot of those fat cats execs and im a lazy no good slacker that cant spell or use proper grammar.

If only the politicians cut back on their pay and benfits to a more resonable level this whole health care issue would be solved anyway. There would be more than enough money to take care of everybody.

Originally posted by Gorair

well all i can say after all this is ...

then fix it.

stop asking the govt to solve all our problems , and ponie up and accept some responsibility and do something to warrant change.

Change happens not because its asked for but because its caused.

Stop waiting , start doing.

Pretty simple formula.

Easy to say - "You! American Government listen up fix this issue , now!

really hard to say yes il donate half my income to help ,

or go pay for medical insurance for 1 family that doesnt have it, that only about what  200$ a month? how much do you spend on crap u never use?.

Quit asking people to do it for you , problems arent solved by whining about them and then hoping someone ELSE fixes the problem they are fixed when people , real , regualr people take care of it.

cant afford to pay for someone else? the go grass roots and collect money from local businesses and set up some non profit company that will pay insurance for people using those donations.

Take a proactive step and stop waitng for some magic formula that the govt has to discover to solve them. its not their job to do that , its ours as citizens.

 

 

 

 

Actually, it costs ALOT more than 200 a month lol.  If I was to cover my family (wife + 3 kids, and myself), it would cost over 600 a month!  That's more than 25% of what I make!  And there's still deductibles, co-pays for EACH doctor visit.  These are anywhere from 10-50 dollars.  So, you're sick, you stay out of work and decide to go to the doctor.  Not only do you get behind in work, use up a sick day or vacation day (if you have one available -- if not, you're losing money just missing work), but then it costs you even more money to see the doc.   And if he prescribes you anything, it's yet even more. 

So yes, that's @#%$ed up. 

And if you have a bad accident, and are put in the hospital.....God help you, because you're looking at around 50% coverages over a certain amount.  And being that the costs are so high (this is the problem that needs to be addressed), you're going to break that amount and go in debt, owing medical bills.

As stated above.  The problem is that the costs are too high.  Why are they too high? Well it's because like all other companies, the medical companies want to make money.  They want to make ALOT of money.  The have seen how, because of health insurance, people can still technically be charged more for a service or product, and they are exploiting it.

Example:  Let's say there was a thing called Fast Food insurance.  It helps you pay for your McDonald's and Burger King trips.  Right now, you're paying 3 bucks for a Big Mac.   That's probably because the meat place charges like 20 cent for the meat, and the bun place charges like 10 cent for the bun.  The restaurant charges what they want, to make a profit also.  It's business.   But then you add insurance into the mix.....

Now the supply companies can charge alot more, because more and more people are able to buy the final product.  The restaurants are now charging more because they have to, because of the increase in supply costs, plus they want to make a profit too.  Then you have the consumer who just wants his hamburger.  The companies involved don't feel guilty about increasing the price because they know the consumers will get what they want, and not complain because "they have insurance".  Well, now you get a BigMac that used to cost 3 bucks, now costs 25.  No biggie right, because my insurance takes care of that.  But it's a huge problem.  Prices only grow as inflation has showed us.  In 20 years, it's be 50 bucks for that same hamburger you used to pay 3 bucks for.  And eventually, insurance prices will go up, requiring you to pay more.   And the insurance companies are laughing all the way to the bank.

Originally posted by Vhayne

As stated above.  The problem is that the costs are too high.  Why are they too high? Well it's because like all other companies, the medical companies want to make money.  They want to make ALOT of money.  The have seen how, because of health insurance, people can still technically be charged more for a service or product, and they are exploiting it.

Without further legislation many of the same factors apply to the economics - pharmaceutical companies are just as likely to raise their prices whether it's the government or insurance companies paying. Instead of insurance prices going up, taxes go up or other government services suffer.

Originally posted by EggFtegg

 

Originally posted by Vhayne

As stated above.  The problem is that the costs are too high.  Why are they too high? Well it's because like all other companies, the medical companies want to make money.  They want to make ALOT of money.  The have seen how, because of health insurance, people can still technically be charged more for a service or product, and they are exploiting it.

That's not really a lot different with a nation health service though. Essentially it is still insurance, but it's organised by the government and if you're earning, you're forced to pay it along with the "insurance" for people who aren't earning.

 

Without further legislation many of the same factors apply to the economics - pharmaceutical companies are just as likely to raise their prices whether it's the government or insurance companies paying. Instead of insurance prices going up, taxes go up or other government services suffer.

Isn't that what I just said? :)  It would do absolutely no good to implement a "free healthcare system" with the way things are now.  The absolute cost of healthcare is tremendous right now.  But the entire point is that it doesn't have to be, nor should it. 

Remember the part in the movie where the lady gets her medicine in Cuba for coins, but in the US she's paying 120 dollars each?  This is what I'm talking about.  Not just medicine though.  The whole system is ridiculously inflated....and we don't know any better because we're stupid enough to keep paying for our overpriced health insurance.

wow... how dare they earn profit !!

wish some people would spend more time in school and learn it cant be done as a govt fix.

period.

as long as americans overvalue themselves and what they think a decent wage is, everything else is going to be overvalued. Its that simple.

When it costs less to produce items the costs go down , when it cost more to do the same costs go up.

the bad thing is that people that have to be told they cant use a hair dryer in the shower also think they can run a successful business.

If its as easy as alot of people here claim .. go start one, run it how you think it should be done and completely ignore the reality of economics, dont call me when you're bankrupt.

     America is still great  i don't know what your thinking, we are the largest exporter of medical and social aid  in the whole world, we have liberated two countries from terrorist regimes and gave them freedom, we are the driving force against global terrorism and we have one the economy's in the world. i can't imagine living anywhere else, and i wouldn't. sure we have some issues but not enough to give you an excuse to have the attitude you have against our country.

the poor get poorer because they're stupid, we live in a culture now days that is "Lazy" (not all are stupid there are exceptions)  people don't want to get off their fat butts and do anything they'd rather sit in their chair with a cheeseburger and watch american idol. people are trying to find the quick way to prosperity and it doesn't happen like that, you get rich by working hard.  if you take a look at the way kids are being brought up now days, they're a selfish generation, taking the easy way out. i know it i've seen it, parents aren't teaching their kids how to be hardworking honest american citizens. instead they let them run around and do whatever they want, don't give a flip about their schooling and wonder why they knocked up their 18 year old girlfriend and have to get government assistance so much.

     I do have to point out one thing, it has been proven that everytime taxes are lowered the people prosper and the economy thrives, the more money we have the more people have to use to generate the economy, the government has failed in this imo, taxes need to be lowered so that people have more cash to work with, the more cash the people have the more dollars they generate, the more they generate the more taxes that is sent into the government. anyways i'm ending my rant here.

gelasius

Originally posted by Gorair

wow... how dare they earn profit !!

wish some people would spend more time in school and learn it cant be done as a govt fix.

period.

as long as americans overvalue themselves and what they think a decent wage is, everything else is going to be overvalued. Its that simple.

When it costs less to produce items the costs go down , when it cost more to do the same costs go up.

the bad thing is that people that have to be told they cant use a hair dryer in the shower also think they can run a successful business.

If its as easy as alot of people here claim .. go start one, run it how you think it should be done and completely ignore the reality of economics, dont call me when you're bankrupt.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Gorair

wish some people would spend more time in school and learn it cant be done as a govt fix.

School? You mean the govt funded and regulated school?

1. Why would they teach good solid economics and money management? The dumber the people are, the more poor people there are, the more dependent on govt they are, the more powerful govt becomes.
2. Why would govt regulated and funded schools teach that govt can't solve something?

I see conflicts of interest. I agree with you otherwise. I just think govt regulated schools suck as much as govt regulation in the workforce.

Government needs to stick with the damn Constitution. I don't see anywhere in the Constitution where the govt can intrude into PRIVATE businesses and tell them what to do. Soon they will start intruding into PRIVATE homes and start telling us what to do...oh wait...
When you give the government an inch to ignore the Constitution, they take a mile and they never forget it.

Originally posted by Vhayne

 

Profit is one thing.  Being economically raped is another.  Medicine isn't an optional purchase.  It isn't like people have a choice.  Profits on such things should be regulated, to keep them in line.  

 

Too bad our politicians are in bed with big pharma. Big pharma has among the most lobbiests in D.C. Politicians go to big pharma when they are done writing laws and become lobbiests. Yeah let's give the govt more power to regulate, they have certainly proven to us which side they are on.

Here's a different solution to our broken healthcare system and it doesn't ignore our Constitution!
www.youtube.com/watch

I agree with uniquename poor people are dumb.