Originally posted by Sorrow

The real issue here is that game designers have become lazy and educated.

Creativity in the industry is dead, but then that is because 90% of the people calling themselves game devs are simply only game hacks. The whole industry has become nothing but stealing what works from someone thats already done it reskinning it and trying to sell it again.

Personally I blame education, what is happening is these guys making games now are the influx of the 90 day tech school gamer clones, everyone of them educated exactly the same way from exactly the same texts and design software.

They are simply in the field to make a buck off whats hot, they lack passion and commitment.

Too many people call themselves gamers these days on both sides of the industry and as a result the market has become inundated by nothing but piles and piles of crap.

Games designed by gamer wannabes for gamer wannabes...

These gamer wannabees are too stupid or too desperate for the next fix to know what makes a good game so they will but the hell outta any peice of crap thats put in a pretty box.

As a result real gamers have to suffer. Why should a dev spend the time and money to make something truly innovative and new when 80% of the game buying public are idiots that will buy a blank DVD as long as its accompanied with tons of hype and viral marketing promising its the best thing since the last best thing a week ago..

Sadly until the industry collapses under the weight of its own crappy pile of shitty titles the industry will continue down this road of self destruction..

Once the huge profits have been sucked out of the industry we may once again begin to see games designed by true gamers, artists and innovators who are in it to make a good game not to make a fast $.

 

i think first you have to set straight what dou expect of a new mmorpg and what a gamer is for you and then perhaps you may critisize it.

I've got a question for you guys.

What would make it new? What would make it innovative? What would make it fun? What do you want from these games that you seem unable to get?

Personally, I think it's possible that a majority of MMO players are so incredibly jaded that no matter what new feature was implemented, they'd complain that it had already been done and that it wasn't new, innovative or fun.

Now admittedly, I'd like a game that played more like a world, but even that's nothing new! Asheron's Call, Ultima Online and Everquest already gave us that! In fact, I'd go back to Asheron's Call if it weren't loaded down with bots, and if the real atmosphere of the game hadn't already been taken away in order to 'compete'.

So what innovative feature do you want?

Originally posted by LordKyellan

I've got a question for you guys.

What would make it new? What would make it innovative? What would make it fun? What do you want from these games that you seem unable to get?

Personally, I think it's possible that a majority of MMO players are so incredibly jaded that no matter what new feature was implemented, they'd complain that it had already been done and that it wasn't new, innovative or fun.

Now admittedly, I'd like a game that played more like a world, but even that's nothing new! Asheron's Call, Ultima Online and Everquest already gave us that! In fact, I'd go back to Asheron's Call if it weren't loaded down with bots, and if the real atmosphere of the game hadn't already been taken away in order to 'compete'.

So what innovative feature do you want?

Now see...you answered your own question. (well, except for including EQ in your list...that one doesn't belong)

 That's exactly what some people want to see.... a game that doesn't follow the traditional class, level, PVE grind a ton of  pointless fetch/kill quests like games of the past several years (WOW, LotRO, VG, COH/COV etc)

We want to be able to build cities...and tear other peoples cities down.  We want the freedom to develop our characters along whatever lines we want (skill based vs class) and we're tired of being told our character isn't wanted in the group because we aren't the right spec or the right fit for it.

In fact, we want a fun, enriching solo game along with decent incentives to group in certain situations.

You're correct, much of this isn't new or innovative, but it seems to have been forgotten since the early days of UO and AC.

EQ actually started the madness, and its been rolling downhill ever since. (for those of us who don't favor PVE oriented MMO's).   

TR was created by "Lord British"..... the man who "created" UO (I suspect other folks had more of hand in its actual success actually, but thats another debate) and UO had so many of these features.  So naturally we expected him to bring us something more along the lines of an improved UO.... but instead we got.... TR as it is today.

We're disappointed is all.  TR might be a fine game, once again for the PVE crowd..... but for the rest of us looking for more a world to play in....we're left out in the cold yet again.

Originally posted by geldonyetich

 

So, in other words...

 

Terrorism!!!

Seriously, this kind of sentiment sounds good on paper, but in the here and now there's no reason to hold such a grudge against a specific game just because the industry happens to work this way.  At least try making your own MMORPG before insisting that they've no excuse to release the game "unfinished."

And this sort of mindless puerile comment does nothing to address the failings of the industry. it is just the sort of reaction I expect from the fanboiz willing to waste their money on shallow, unfinished work.

Like I said, don't roll out the old excuse of 'but they all do this' and expect me to swallow it. It's a crap excuse, from lazy developers, foisted on an audience with low expectations

raise the bar, expect more for your money, and don't accept half-complete products

I was a bit upset with the changes they made with the targeting system and the gigantic hit boxes. It really removed the, "This is a fps-rpg with MMo qualities to this is an action-mmo" similar to SWG. If people have fun, they have fun, but it isn't for me.

It does suck people attack games they have only read reviews about or played only beta and have terrible feelings towards any game, as it is a waist of time and effort.

If it is fun, and you enjoy the game that is all that matters in the end. Hopefully it does last a good while as Richard Garriot has yet to have a hit since UO.

i think games in general these days lack ...pride or something. this one is just 1 example of it, and i hope all games that offer nothing new crash and burn. there are artists, and there are pop sensations. we get maybe 1-2 works of art a year, the rest is just pop (add an extra "o" for more accuracy) totally disposable, bland, boring, repetitious wastes of time that we will never look back on and say "they just don't make em like game X any more".

i want to participate in ART, and what the gaming market is giving us is page after page of doodle space. i remember cities, characters and music from old ultima games, i will definitely not be remembering anything about TR in 5-20 years, not only because i refuse to pay for this slackery in a box, but there is just nothing that memorable about it. british sold this game using his name, and now his name will forever be synonymous with trash (right up there with sega). hope the space time was worth it cause he's officially gaming garbage now.

i dont even want the game to fail per 'se. i want companies to stop making sub-par games and hyping them like they are mind-bendingly unique experiences that we just cant live without. id like to see law suits flying around every time there is a B/S ad or claim made about a game. i would like to see people held accountable for the development decisions they make, as it stands they can just shut down a failing company, take out a loan (or offer their souls to EA) and have a new one up and running in under a month.

Like most MMO games, this one included.

Fast Paced, Faster if possible. There is only one way to have fun in this game and that is to turn off all the Quest Beginning and Finishing pointers. Otherwise it's a LOOK MOM another no Brainer.

Although it is a great game for beginners to get the idea there is more to a game than follow the little yellow arrows.

Turn em off and it will last a long time but otherwise it's to hard on the legs.

I must admit, I HATED this game when I played in Beta.

However, I decided to give it a chance and I am enjoying it so far.

I will only be subscribing at the end of my free month however, if they they sort out the overloaded EUR server.

Originally posted by abhaigh

 

Originally posted by geldonyetich

 

So, in other words...

 

Terrorism!!!

Seriously, this kind of sentiment sounds good on paper, but in the here and now there's no reason to hold such a grudge against a specific game just because the industry happens to work this way.  At least try making your own MMORPG before insisting that they've no excuse to release the game "unfinished."

 

And this sort of mindless puerile comment does nothing to address the failings of the industry. it is just the sort of reaction I expect from the fanboiz willing to waste their money on shallow, unfinished work.

Like I said, don't roll out the old excuse of 'but they all do this' and expect me to swallow it. It's a crap excuse, from lazy developers, foisted on an audience with low expectations

raise the bar, expect more for your money, and don't accept half-complete products

@abhaigh

Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do.  You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.

Man, this is why TR needs their own forums where only subscribers can post. The amount of bs in this thread is unreal. I think the vast majority of people actually playing the game really like it. I couldn't care less what some retard who doesn't even play thinks about "the industry".

Originally posted by Kyleran

 

Originally posted by LordKyellan

I've got a question for you guys.

What would make it new? What would make it innovative? What would make it fun? What do you want from these games that you seem unable to get?

Personally, I think it's possible that a majority of MMO players are so incredibly jaded that no matter what new feature was implemented, they'd complain that it had already been done and that it wasn't new, innovative or fun.

Now admittedly, I'd like a game that played more like a world, but even that's nothing new! Asheron's Call, Ultima Online and Everquest already gave us that! In fact, I'd go back to Asheron's Call if it weren't loaded down with bots, and if the real atmosphere of the game hadn't already been taken away in order to 'compete'.

So what innovative feature do you want?

Now see...you answered your own question. (well, except for including EQ in your list...that one doesn't belong)

 

 That's exactly what some people want to see.... a game that doesn't follow the traditional class, level, PVE grind a ton of  pointless fetch/kill quests like games of the past several years (WOW, LotRO, VG, COH/COV etc)

We want to be able to build cities...and tear other peoples cities down.  We want the freedom to develop our characters along whatever lines we want (skill based vs class) and we're tired of being told our character isn't wanted in the group because we aren't the right spec or the right fit for it.

In fact, we want a fun, enriching solo game along with decent incentives to group in certain situations.

You're correct, much of this isn't new or innovative, but it seems to have been forgotten since the early days of UO and AC.

EQ actually started the madness, and its been rolling downhill ever since. (for those of us who don't favor PVE oriented MMO's).   

TR was created by "Lord British"..... the man who "created" UO (I suspect other folks had more of hand in its actual success actually, but thats another debate) and UO had so many of these features.  So naturally we expected him to bring us something more along the lines of an improved UO.... but instead we got.... TR as it is today.

We're disappointed is all.  TR might be a fine game, once again for the PVE crowd..... but for the rest of us looking for more a world to play in....we're left out in the cold yet again.

 

 

See red text....exactly.

Originally posted by loonyalex

Hi,

I think people expect too much from an mmorpg. they expect something new, refreshing! well what new then? A quiz within the mmorpg? I think not. Housing? Not new. A stock market? not new. Technical invention? Happens all the time, not very exciting. Crafting? Old thing.

So what do people wish as new? Perhaps a mmorpg, where you have to buy a costume such that you may feel how it hurts when you get a sword into your loins. I think not!

I think people want something new, but they don't know what.  Just read those postings of criticsm. Most of them only say what's bad, but they don't say how to do it in a way more fun. Most of the time it's just destructive criticsm and not constructive. They do it this way because they dont know what they want. So I cannot take them seriously.

greetings

loonyalex

I think your right with what you say, but the problem is also a matter of the worst of all sins: money.

Money causes many games to fail, even offline. Here are a few examples: Games get released earlier, unfinished, games are changed to suit the publisher's perception and themes and ideas are recycled in hope of imitating success.

Even if the developer has enough money for trying out new stuff, they will go to the old concepts, because they want to make even more money. A sad example is Westwood Studios: They did a lot of (for that time) innovative games, mainly CnC, and gained amazing success; Still they faded away! And why? Because after their success with CnC, they created just more CnC! There was not major advancement from CnC to CnC Red Alert 2 (still only one resource, still not able to place building far from each other, still two groups/nations opposing each other...)

(Please forgive me minor factual mistakes with CnC)

So if we get the money out (impossible) we could eliminate this barrier locking away the creativity of game designers. (For the guy talking about the education being the problem: Education teaches you to go after the money!)

Serazahr

-> Rise of the Infernal Age <- Is getting prepeared for Warcraft 4 (hopefully with innovative stuff.)

Originally posted by Kyleran

Now see...you answered your own question. (well, except for including EQ in your list...that one doesn't belong)

 

 That's exactly what some people want to see.... a game that doesn't follow the traditional class, level, PVE grind a ton of  pointless fetch/kill quests like games of the past several years (WOW, LotRO, VG, COH/COV etc)

We want to be able to build cities...and tear other peoples cities down.  We want the freedom to develop our characters along whatever lines we want (skill based vs class) and we're tired of being told our character isn't wanted in the group because we aren't the right spec or the right fit for it.

In fact, we want a fun, enriching solo game along with decent incentives to group in certain situations.

You're correct, much of this isn't new or innovative, but it seems to have been forgotten since the early days of UO and AC.

EQ actually started the madness, and its been rolling downhill ever since. (for those of us who don't favor PVE oriented MMO's).   

TR was created by "Lord British"..... the man who "created" UO (I suspect other folks had more of hand in its actual success actually, but thats another debate) and UO had so many of these features.  So naturally we expected him to bring us something more along the lines of an improved UO.... but instead we got.... TR as it is today.

We're disappointed is all.  TR might be a fine game, once again for the PVE crowd..... but for the rest of us looking for more a world to play in....we're left out in the cold yet again.

 

 

You're right, EQ shouldn't have been in that list. Not sure what I was thinking.

So, the real problem is that we need to change what we say when we talk about what we want. (I say 'we' because while I'm content to play the games that are out now for whatever length of time that they remain interesting to me is, I know that I won't really play a game again until it's a world). Instead of using the words 'new' and 'innovative', which are nothing but useless, superficial buzz words that do nothing to further the cause, we need to start declaring more openly that what we want is the things you've mentioned above.

I, too, long for a skill-based game that feels like a world, much like Dereth did in its early days.

So we, the ex-AC and UO players, those who have burned themselves out on the PvE grind of World of Warcraft, and the PvP fans who long for something more, all need to start saying more loudly that what we want is:

A virtual world with skill-based advancement.

Am I right?

in response to your question int he title. simple answer, "because the game is terrible". i could explain why, but i have done it before and dont want to waste my time writing it again.

The only thing that I know is that Im loving playing TR!! But...it might be coincidence but the worse bashing and trolling about this game are from players of Star Wars Galaxies and Neocron. They  talk how bad that TR is and then they  praise the joy of playing theyr loving games. Could it be that they are afraid of losing players?

@LordKyllan

What you describe is a mixture out of Lotro, Wow, GuildWars and perhaps some other MMO. But I would guess If you would see it, you would consider it old, because it's nothing new. Also, if you want to have a world with housing and so on, it has to fit into the back story and in Tabula Ras it just doesn't fit. It would make no sense at all to build in housing or city building into Tabula Rasa. 

@jayheld90

Well I have read your history of entries. What you said as criticsm for Tabula Rasa could be said in two words: shit, expensive. Not very constructive, don't you think? 

greetings

loonyalex 

Originally posted by loonyalex  

@abhaigh 

Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do.  You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.

You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.

as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.

TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot

you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.

I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status

i just cant get tabula rasa to run well on any of my computers , they play the likes of hellgate london and most new games  with ease . i ve also seen it played on other peoples systems they all have similar problems with it . i d love to see it do well but unless things improve i really could nt recomend the current product to anyone . as much as i d like to think otherwise this maybe another vanguard in the making .

Originally posted by abhaigh

 

Originally posted by loonyalex  

@abhaigh 

Again you just say its shit. You want something better. Well, then tell the world what is better! For me you look like someone who sits bored before his computer and doesnt know what to do.  You are angry at yourself because you are bored and so you write in forums that every game is crap. My advise to you: write your own game, Then you'll see how difficult it is. And if you succeed come back and write your ciriticsm again.

how about you take this advice - try defending the game instead of attacking its critics with ad hominem attacks and useless challenges?

 

You don't know me, have no idea who I am or what my feelings are, don't diminish yourself by talking crap, tossing insults around, and generally playing the righteously indignant fanboi.

as for what is better? a complete, mature product that is released when, and only when, it is ready to be released.

TR might be complete and mature in 6 months, right now it is a shallow, unfinished product that resembles an MMO, and no matter how much you whine, cry, and complain about my POV on the game will either change its current status, or my opinons regarding it. in fact, all you can do by insulting me personally is make yourself look like an idiot

you know, it is usually better to keep quiet and have people wonder if you are a fool or not, than it is to speak up and confirm it for them.

I'm afraid your indulging in the ad hominem has confirmed your status

Useless challenges?

Is it useless to think about how to do something better, if I or you have criticsm on something?

Is it useless to give reasons for its critics or opinion, when written in a forum?

I think not. i call it constructive criticsm.

For the record: Neither do I want to change your opinion nor do I defend the game. You may not like the game. Thats ok. But when you critisize something by saying  that it's an unfinished product, i expect some reasons why. But I don't see any reasons for it in your statements in this thread.

I may be a fool. And I may be a fanboy. So what? But you won't see me bashing a product without giving reasons and ideas how to make it better.

Originally posted by jayheld90

in response to your question int he title. simple answer, "because the game is terrible". i could explain why, but i have done it before and dont want to waste my time writing it again.

That is one of the most selfish things I've ever read. 'Terrible' is subjective -- no, don't argue about it. It is.

Like I said earlier; not wanting others to get the chance to enjoy something because you happen not to enjoy it is one of the symptoms of a much larger social disease.