EVE Online

Originally posted by davcha

 

Actually, i'm not a player who's really interested in "endgame playing". I'm used to enjoy the journey much more than the endgame (in fact, i usually quit when i reach endgame).

 

In fact, i'm a professional developper, and one day, i'd like to run some kind of a small-sized niche mmorpg based on the sandbox model.

I'm looking for (i dont know if we can really say that i'm actively searching it but... Well... If i ever find it, i'd be happier) a long term game.... But that doesnt mean i'll agree to wait 3 months before having fun.

"3 months is nothing", except it's 3 months of subscription time.... 3 * $15. =p Not nothing finally.

It's not only the 3 months, but in fact, if i had to describe the gameplay of Eve for a new casual player (I think i have some experience with it, since i have tried Eve perhaps 5 or 6 times during at least 2 weeks each time).

I'd say : it's an endless journey where you complete fedex quests, where the distance between each POI (point of interest) is at least a 5 minutes journey, where you spend all your time mining very common minerals (which is very unexciting), where you avoid battle since the day that guy oneshooted your ship and your pod.

 

As a hardcore gamer, you probably dont have a problem with "short term goals" that takes 3 days or 2 weeks to complete.

As a casual gamer, i do have a problem with journeys (travelling from one point in the space to another with my ship) that takes more than 2 minutes, especially if travelling is something you're doing so often that it represents 80% of your playtime.

Basically, Eve is probably a very nice game when you are willing to invest a lot of yourself (RL) in, but when you consider it a game, nothing more than something to give you some immediate fun/relax after the work, it's a nice screensaver of a ship travelling hyperspace.

 

To me, Eve seem to lack something fun and accessible immediately, without having to wait 3 months of learning or wait 30 minutes in hyperspace.

i am not sure where you got the 3 months of no fun from. the first 3 months are part of the journy that should be fun. take a look at this thread.

mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/144230

i agree that for the casual gamer, and for the impatient one the game is unplayable, i guess i like that. The time cost of travel is one of the burdens of loss that happens in PvP, as i said very harsh penalties.

One of the things that i resisted doing for a long time was starting a second account, i gave in recently. The main reason i did was that i had changed my gameplay so that there were long periods of doing nothing (probably too much of the game is like this), so having a second accound ment i could build an alt, do semi-afk mining for production. The main  reason i resisted was cost justification, however i can now make enough in game credit to excange it for game time cards, so someone else pays for my account.

What it seems to come down to is that EVE is not the game for you. However, you are tring to work out why EVE, a small, niche based, sandboxed model MMORPG fails for you so you can desighn one in the way you think is attractive. Fair enough, I think you have pretty substantial design  challenges ahead of you, I don't think that sandbox suits casual or impatient play, as the sandbox is a blank slate unless you put work in it to build and to maintain it. Casual fun to me is TF2. I am not saying your ingenuity is not up to it, I certainly hope you make something that breaks the mold.

Originally posted by Snikes

I agree with davcha. Eve is huge, the sandbox aspect and the skill tree system are making this game limitless. There is no end to the amount of skills and isks you will be able to spend in this game. There will always be a bigger more powerful (and of course more expansive) toy to play with.

But in a way that's where the game lost me. My first steps in Eve were great, skills were easy bought, easy learnt. A couple of hours missioning/mining/ratting and you were able to buy a brand new ship with new toys. And the game got harder and harder...

When I got close to 30millions SP, I had to spend more and more time playing if I wanted to afford my ships'insurances, clones renewal, tech II fitts upgrades and so on... I had only two choices : missioning for hours and hours a day in hi-sec (but I'm a casual) or mining/ratting a couple of hours a day in low-sec.

My last "unfortunate encounter" in lowsec cost me a full techII fitted HAC and a clone. I was in straits, I knew I had several weeks or even months of missionning in hi-sec to get back on tracks. That could sound like a challenge to some, it sounded like work to me. I decided to cancel my sub.

I'm sure to have missed something in this game. It seems so easy for some to get money. Maybe are they smarter than me, maybe do they have richer friends ingame...

I'm constantly thinking about resubbing but I know I will face the same challenges and the same failures. So sad this game has so much to offer but not for me.

Also did you have a research agent? instead of a lottery, you can now excange research points for datacores, which are needed for T2 invention (the reason T2 is cheaper) and sell well. So if you had a research agent, you will have a chunk of isk waiting for you if you resub. As you get a set amount of rp a day, you can make money without logging in.

Originally posted by nurgles

 

Originally posted by Snikes

I agree with davcha. Eve is huge, the sandbox aspect and the skill tree system are making this game limitless. There is no end to the amount of skills and isks you will be able to spend in this game. There will always be a bigger more powerful (and of course more expansive) toy to play with.

But in a way that's where the game lost me. My first steps in Eve were great, skills were easy bought, easy learnt. A couple of hours missioning/mining/ratting and you were able to buy a brand new ship with new toys. And the game got harder and harder...

When I got close to 30millions SP, I had to spend more and more time playing if I wanted to afford my ships'insurances, clones renewal, tech II fitts upgrades and so on... I had only two choices : missioning for hours and hours a day in hi-sec (but I'm a casual) or mining/ratting a couple of hours a day in low-sec.

My last "unfortunate encounter" in lowsec cost me a full techII fitted HAC and a clone. I was in straits, I knew I had several weeks or even months of missionning in hi-sec to get back on tracks. That could sound like a challenge to some, it sounded like work to me. I decided to cancel my sub.

I'm sure to have missed something in this game. It seems so easy for some to get money. Maybe are they smarter than me, maybe do they have richer friends ingame...

I'm constantly thinking about resubbing but I know I will face the same challenges and the same failures. So sad this game has so much to offer but not for me.

Snikes i am not sure how long ago you cancelled your sub. HACs are a lot cheaper these days ~80mil for a Cerb. also with salvaging lvl 4 mission are pushing 20 mil an hour. T2 components across the board are cheaper as well.

 

Also did you have a research agent? instead of a lottery, you can now excange research points for datacores, which are needed for T2 invention (the reason T2 is cheaper) and sell well. So if you had a research agent, you will have a chunk of isk waiting for you if you resub. As you get a set amount of rp a day, you can make money without logging in.

 

Get in a good corp and they're even cheaper than that.

I get T2 HAC for ~ 60m each.

With invention, as long as you have a corp that actually works together instead of as individuals, stuff just really isn't that expensive.

Originally posted by davcha

Problem of Eve is...

 

After you've completed the tutorial, there's nothing to do beside those boring missions.... Unless you're joining a player-driven corporation.

 

Now the problem is... How can you choose and join a corporation in a political world you know nothing about ? You may do the wrong choice, as a noob, and join a corporation that doesnt really match your playstyle or goals in the game.

 

And once you've joined a corporation, even if your choice have been correct, what can you do as a casual newcomer ? (casual newcomer = a player who just started to play the game - a "noob" - who is also a casual player).

 

So, you ask your corporation channel about things to do and you get the answer the OP gave us here : "do whatever you want !".... Yea, ok, very good idea, but if i'm asking it's because i have no idea what to do, and this is totally logic, since i am a new player who know very little about the game and even less about the political situation of the world in game and the goals of your corporation within that political situation.

Do you really think i'd ask you what to do if i had any idea ? Dont you think instead of asking you what to do, i'd do what i want to do, without asking you the "permission" ?

So... When i ask you "What can i do ? How can i make myself useful for the corporation ? How can i enter the real game, have a role in this game and bring my 2 cents ? Even if i wont have a decisive role and rule the universe, i'd like to make some difference, even if this difference only influence very slightly the efficiency of our corporation."...

Do not answer me : "Do whatever you want ! It's a great game enjoy your freedom !", because i will only hear the following : "Get by yourself, noob, and stop disturbing me during my playtime."

You are a genius. Nailed it right there.

Originally posted by Nazaros

Originally posted by davcha

Problem of Eve is...

 

After you've completed the tutorial, there's nothing to do beside those boring missions.... Unless you're joining a player-driven corporation.

 

Now the problem is... How can you choose and join a corporation in a political world you know nothing about ? You may do the wrong choice, as a noob, and join a corporation that doesnt really match your playstyle or goals in the game.

 

And once you've joined a corporation, even if your choice have been correct, what can you do as a casual newcomer ? (casual newcomer = a player who just started to play the game - a "noob" - who is also a casual player).

 

So, you ask your corporation channel about things to do and you get the answer the OP gave us here : "do whatever you want !".... Yea, ok, very good idea, but if i'm asking it's because i have no idea what to do, and this is totally logic, since i am a new player who know very little about the game and even less about the political situation of the world in game and the goals of your corporation within that political situation.

Do you really think i'd ask you what to do if i had any idea ? Dont you think instead of asking you what to do, i'd do what i want to do, without asking you the "permission" ?

So... When i ask you "What can i do ? How can i make myself useful for the corporation ? How can i enter the real game, have a role in this game and bring my 2 cents ? Even if i wont have a decisive role and rule the universe, i'd like to make some difference, even if this difference only influence very slightly the efficiency of our corporation."...

Do not answer me : "Do whatever you want ! It's a great game enjoy your freedom !", because i will only hear the following : "Get by yourself, noob, and stop disturbing me during my playtime."

You are a genius. Nailed it right there.

 Speaks 2 people who probably never made it past the tutorial or even the free trial.