Originally posted by Vhayne

Can someone who's following the game well explain more about when the dev said, "There won't be stats on items"? 

I understand what they are trying to accomplish (a low level can kill a high level, because of no advantages, etc), but what worries me, is what's the difference in getting hit with a dagger, or a 2 handed sword?  I would think getting stuck with a dagger once wouldn't be as bad as some 30 lb sword hitting you square in the chest. 

And also what worries me, is for people who LIKE to upgrade their equipment.  I mean, if I'm able to gear myself well at level 1, then why would I ever want to change my gear on the way to 50?  Having the same gear the entire game would become very stale.

So, if you know more, please explain. :)

I haven't played the game so I can't speak for it, but I do play CoX - they have no items.  And I love the system.  If the gameplay is fun - the game will be fun. 

This system will lead to a more "player skill" system.  Say goodbye to twinks.  As far as things getting stale, you have a world to explore and skills to play with.  The actual combat mechanics will be more important than what you are wearing.

This is a key selling point of the game for me, although it could hurt them marketing wise.

Originally posted by Rayana

0.o How did you guys manage to see much in this video? I cranked up the gamma slider but it was still mostly black/dark brown with some light effects flying around here and there?

Any suggestions?

I have heard that for some reason on some systems this video appears to be darker then it should. People who had this problem said the solution was to use another application for running the video on their PC.

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Originally posted by Rayana
0.o How did you guys manage to see much in this video? I cranked up the gamma slider but it was still mostly black/dark brown with some light effects flying around here and there?
Any suggestions?

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Use a different media player. That helped other people to a degree. I used Windows Media Classic when I received the same problems you had on Windows Media Player. It helped me somewhat in getting more colors but it was still pretty murky. But yesterday I came across the same video being posted on Gametrailers and the colors were in full effect while watching through Opera.

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Originally posted by Vhayne understand what they are trying to accomplish (a low level can kill a high level, because of no advantages, etc), but what worries me, is what's the difference in getting hit with a dagger, or a 2 handed sword? I would think getting stuck with a dagger once wouldn't be as bad as some 30 lb sword hitting you square in the chest.

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The weapons you carry and the clothing you wear don't dictate damage.

Instead you have to insert materia like objects into your skills, weapons and jewelery called sigils.

You can't insert sigils into clothing because the devs want you to be able to fight naked (or in the case of one person no pants). They also mentioned if sigils are inserted into weapons and you try to duel wield then the sigils for one of your weapons will be disabled because there would be an imbalance between them and two handed users or those who use one handers and shields.

Originally posted by Vhayne

Can someone who's following the game well explain more about when the dev said, "There won't be stats on items"? 

I understand what they are trying to accomplish (a low level can kill a high level, because of no advantages, etc), but what worries me, is what's the difference in getting hit with a dagger, or a 2 handed sword?  I would think getting stuck with a dagger once wouldn't be as bad as some 30 lb sword hitting you square in the chest. 

And also what worries me, is for people who LIKE to upgrade their equipment.  I mean, if I'm able to gear myself well at level 1, then why would I ever want to change my gear on the way to 50?  Having the same gear the entire game would become very stale.

So, if you know more, please explain. :)

I will try. Stats and outfit have been seperated from each other in this game. Armour gives you no stats, while weapons can be given stats by adding Sigil stones to them. Sigil stones can be looted, bought from merchants and other players, or received as quest rewards.

Cooler looking armour can be looted and/or crafted lateron in the game or be earned by doing quests. Better looking weapons can be gotten in the same way. Sigil stones from your old weapons can be removed and refitted to your new weapon. Since you can make unique weapons in this way, you can give a name to your weapon yourself. You can also sell it under that new name if you like.

When you level you will also receive the ability to add more Sigil stones to a single weapon. I am not sure, but I believe I heard 5 Sigil stones is the maximum that can be fitted to a weapon.

However, I have no idea what kind of stats can be added to your weapons by adding Sigil stones. Every stat imaginable I suppose.

About the difference between dagger and two-handed swords I am uncertain. I know that the mechanics of weapon swing actually counts. So a dagger might be more difficult to evade then a two-hander sword and they might balance it by damage output so that in the end both weapons do equal damage in the hands of equally skilled players and opponents, but that is still pure speculation from my side.

Originally posted by Vhayne

Can someone who's following the game well explain more about when the dev said, "There won't be stats on items"? 

I understand what they are trying to accomplish (a low level can kill a high level, because of no advantages, etc), but what worries me, is what's the difference in getting hit with a dagger, or a 2 handed sword?  I would think getting stuck with a dagger once wouldn't be as bad as some 30 lb sword hitting you square in the chest. 

And also what worries me, is for people who LIKE to upgrade their equipment.  I mean, if I'm able to gear myself well at level 1, then why would I ever want to change my gear on the way to 50?  Having the same gear the entire game would become very stale.

So, if you know more, please explain. :)

For the most part there's no difference between the weapons, though I remember reading that there are some skills for which you need a certain kind of weapon in your inventory. When using that skill you will temporarily switch from your normal weapon to the other. However, I don't know if that's just for bows and such or if it's for different skills as well.

And about the equipment: While you can gear up at the start, only a part of the gear will be available. So you will still be able to get new gear when leveling up and probably even use some rare item gotten from a boss for bragging. The difference is though that the new gear won't give you the edge in combat.

Well it has drawn my interest, I will say that much.  So far I think the characters look a bit cheesy, but I'm going to do more research here in a bit to figure out more about the game.  If it is anything like a skill-based, good crafting and economy game that I  am looking for then I'll move this up on my list of games to follow.  I have to admit the combat is very interesting.

I've been actively following the game since November of 2005, and even now after all of this time and after the numerous videos I've seen, the animations are still so weak. I'm hoping the next few builds will help smooth things out.

Taken from here: tcos.com/sbforum/viewtopic.php

So the animation will be better at release, or closer to release.

Originally posted by CapnHulk

I've been actively following the game since November of 2005, and even now after all of this time and after the numerous videos I've seen, the animations are still so weak. I'm hoping the next few builds will help smooth things out.

That's what I thought as well.  However, I care a whole lot more about gameplay then I do animations and graphics, as I feel UO or EQ is better than a game like WoW.  But I just don't think the majority of people will back a game with poor animations. 

Damn its been said already in this thread but i feel the same i was only loosely following this game but now after seeing that video I cant wait. And their only level 1's it already looks to have better pvp then any game i have seen and its not even a pvp game i hear doesnt say much for warhammer and age of conan tbh.

Only game i was really looking forward to till now was pirates of the burning sea, ahh gonna be a hard choice which one to pick dont really have time for 2 mmos.

The animations and the graphics look kinda cack but oh well its the game play that matters and it is only a stress test beta build after all.

Hope the rest of the game is as fun as that combat looks if it is it might be the next mmo i stick with. Hear its quite casual friendly in terms of getting things done in around an hour as well so that helps with my decision ;p

Good god I hate it when people use the phrase "skill based" incorrectly. I guess it's time for me to drop some knowledge on the OP.

"skill based" refers to a game's character progression system - I.E. Ultima Online and EVE are both considered to be skill based games because they both have free form player characters molded through a pool of skills. The opposite would be "level based", such being the case with WOW and EQ, where the player characters fall into rigid level-based class systems.

If you're trying to refer to a "twitch" combat system, such being the case with Spellborn, Age of Conan, and Darkfall, then it's simply called "real time combat".

If you're trying to say that a game requires "skill" to play, then simply say so. Just keep in mind that since ALL games require some degree of skill to play, calling a game that requires skill "skill based" would be the equivilent of calling a steak that requires chewing "chew based". It just makes you sound like an idiot.

Please, stop butchering MMO terminology. Thanks!

Someone asked about it so....

If your weapon is sheathed, you will move faster.

Originally posted by Tenebrion

Good god I hate it when people use the phrase "skill based" incorrectly. I guess it's time for me to drop some knowledge on the OP.

 

"skill based" refers to a game's character progression system - I.E. Ultima Online and EVE are both considered to be skill based games because they both have free form player characters molded through a pool of skills. The opposite would be "level based", such being the case with WOW and EQ, where the player characters fall into rigid level-based class systems.

 

If you're trying to refer to a "twitch" combat system, such being the case with Spellborn, Age of Conan, and Darkfall, then it's simply called "real time combat".

If you're trying to say that a game requires "skill" to play, then simply say so. Just keep in mind that since ALL games require some degree of skill to play, calling a game that requires skill "skill based" would be the equivilent of calling a steak that requires chewing "chew based". It just makes you sound like an idiot.

 

Please, stop butchering MMO terminology. Thanks!

Since most players use it as player-skill these days ( which means a majority), I'd say the word has changed in meaning by now. Although you're right of course, but ye, that's what happends to languages, they change.

Originally posted by Aristea

Since most players use it as player-skill these days ( which means a majority), I'd say the word has changed in meaning by now. Although you're right of course, but ye, that's what happends to languages, they change.

He is not right by claiming the exclusive right of a part of the English language for mmo terminology. It is a totally uncalled for rant. Just proving he is a bit of a dinosaur.

Can I agree with both of you ? or is that impossible ?:P

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Originally posted by Tenebrion
Good god I hate it when people use the phrase "skill based" incorrectly. I guess it's time for me to drop some knowledge on the OP.
 
"skill based" refers to a game's character progression system - I.E. Ultima Online and EVE are both considered to be skill based games because they both have free form player characters molded through a pool of skills. The opposite would be "level based", such being the case with WOW and EQ, where the player characters fall into rigid level-based class systems.
 
If you're trying to refer to a "twitch" combat system, such being the case with Spellborn, Age of Conan, and Darkfall, then it's simply called "real time combat".
If you're trying to say that a game requires "skill" to play, then simply say so. Just keep in mind that since ALL games require some degree of skill to play, calling a game that requires skill "skill based" would be the equivilent of calling a steak that requires chewing "chew based". It just makes you sound like an idiot.
 
Please, stop butchering MMO terminology. Thanks!

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Even though you are historically correct you are 7 years too late to start preventing the alteration of internet slang now and you are over 4000 years too late to prevent humanity from making languages into a dynamic object.

THe only thing you can do as a responsible person is to explicitly define what you mean when you use certain words that you believe someone is interpretting in a different way.

Originally posted by Tenebrion

Good god I hate it when people use the phrase "skill based" incorrectly. I guess it's time for me to drop some knowledge on the OP.

 

"skill based" refers to a game's character progression system - I.E. Ultima Online and EVE are both considered to be skill based games because they both have free form player characters molded through a pool of skills. The opposite would be "level based", such being the case with WOW and EQ, where the player characters fall into rigid level-based class systems.

 

If you're trying to refer to a "twitch" combat system, such being the case with Spellborn, Age of Conan, and Darkfall, then it's simply called "real time combat".

If you're trying to say that a game requires "skill" to play, then simply say so. Just keep in mind that since ALL games require some degree of skill to play, calling a game that requires skill "skill based" would be the equivilent of calling a steak that requires chewing "chew based". It just makes you sound like an idiot.

 

Please, stop butchering MMO terminology. Thanks!

lmao... what a cheese kn... actually, I'm allowed to say that right?

Lets just say, in a constructive and supportive way, that your post really made me laugh at you.

I've never heard of this game and I wasn't expecting much of the combat system. I'm a heavy PvPer and that combat was actually somewhat appealing but I quickly saw a few serious drawback that turned me off. The combat system has no way to prevent two opponents from trading hits when both players coming are coming into melee range.

What does that mean? When two players get into striking range than they will both mindlessly begin slamming the keyboard in hopes to land a hit so chances are you'll only effectively trade hits more often than not - kind of like if it were just autoattacking anyway... which defeats the purpose of having the combat twitch based.

They could fix this, if the player struck first was momentarily stunned or was knocked back to somehow prevent trading hits than I think the game would be more very appealing otherwise it would just seem mindlessly swinging when the opponent is in range. That couldn't just be picked at random either, you'd have to test both to see how it works with the mechanics. It would be hard to judge though without actually playing the game. All I can really do is make assumptions because the arc of the weapons might all be different and the length of the weapons as well.

Overall, I'm impressed with what they've shown.  I really didn't expect it to be as good as it was so I might take a closer look.

Originally posted by DT-Dyne

I've never heard of this game and I wasn't expecting much of the combat system. I'm a heavy PvPer and that combat was actually somewhat appealing but I quickly saw a few serious drawback that turned me off. The combat system has no way to prevent two opponents from trading hits when both players coming are coming into melee range.

What does that mean? When two players get into striking range than they will both mindlessly begin slamming the keyboard in hopes to land a hit so chances are you'll only effectively trade hits more often than not - kind of like if it were just autoattacking anyway... which defeats the purpose of having the combat twitch based.

They could fix this, if the player struck first was momentairly stunned or was knocked back to somehow prevent trading hits than I think the game would be more very appealing otherwise it would just seem mindlessly swinging when the opponent is in range. That couldn't just be picked at random either, you'd have to test both to see how it works with the mechanics It would be hard to judge though without playing the game though. All I can really do is make assumptions because the arc of the weapons might all be different and the length of the weapons as well.

Overall, I'm impressed with what they've shown.  I really didn't expect it to be as good as it was so I might take a closer look.

There is not only "manuall target attacks" there is also manuall (keybound) dodging.  Keep in mind that there is no auto attck, and that every hit they do they have to choose between 5 options. (So no spamming the mouse button like in a fps game.

Originally posted by DT-Dyne

Overall, I'm impressed with what they've shown.  I really didn't expect it to be as good as it was so I might take a closer look.

That would be a good idea, since you seem to be a bit confused about the combat system by depicting a scenario that imo can only happen when both players do not move or dodge each others attacks.