I think you guys are missing the point , especially you Bladin. I do respect your oppinion and you do talk sence...but

Remember that we are talking EA here.

The company that even charges you for holding your own server. (i am talking about Battlefield)

As i said in original post.

I have nothing against EA charging for some additional online features. Just like Item shops , it is ok by me.

What i fear , and belive HGL will turn out to be diferent.

Non subscribers will get very raw deal , in a way EA will make sure that the game is almost unplayable (online) if you are non subscriber. I noted the reasons in original post, and i will not repeat them.

So what do you get for just 50$ than ?

1. Another Diablo clone (singleplayer) - sorry there is at least 10 other much better games coming out now

2. Limited online playability

And with online fees ?

You get more than limited instanced ORPG. For just 5$ more you get DDO that plays almost the same.

Or any other MMO that has tons more content

Well...

For me clearly EA greedines has and will destroy this game.

thats all

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think you guys are missing the point , especially you Bladin. I do respect your oppinion and you do talk sence...but

Remember that we are talking EA here.

The company that even charges you for holding your own server. (i am talking about Battlefield)

 

As i said in original post.

I have nothing against EA charging for some additional online features. Just like Item shops , it is ok by me.

What i fear , and belive HGL will turn out to be diferent.

Non subscribers will get very raw deal , in a way EA will make sure that the game is almost unplayable (online) if you are non subscriber. I noted the reasons in original post, and i will not repeat them.

So what do you get for just 50$ than ?

1. Another Diablo clone (singleplayer) - sorry there is at least 10 other much better games coming out now

2. Limited online playability

 

And with online fees ?

You get more than limited instanced ORPG. For just 5$ more you get DDO that plays almost the same.

Or any other MMO that has tons more content

 

Well...

For me clearly EA greedines has and will destroy this game.

 

thats all

Wow. Do you even understand how much it actually costs to host a game server? Of course EA will make you pay for a RANKED server slot; at anytime, and for free, you can start your own unranked server from your computer. However, this is how the business model works for this particular title (and virtually every single online FPS game which hosts statistics, awards, ribbons, unlocks, ranks, etc).

Let me try to spell out how this all works for this business model, so I don't have to read another one of your "EA is the devil" posts (and there have been a few from you, so far). I'm not defending EA, I'm just trying to educate you here.

FPS product has a box cost of $50 - standard game cost, it hasn't changed in years. This gets you: offline/singleplayer client gameplay, and online/multiplayer client/unranked/ranked gameplay. This means that your client can connect to any server on the internet that is hosting the title and you can play all your want (unless you get banned from that particular server). Statistics, awards, item unlocks, your character ranks, etc are all tracked on public-available servers that are hosted by the someone - This cost money! But fear not, you do not pay extra to get ranks, and item upgrades, and cool awards. This is all included in your $50. Want more? Wait for the $20-$40 expansion, a'la Northern Strike for Battlefield 2142 (as an example).

If you wish to create your own server and have friends play with you, go ahead, the game allows it! Your server, however, will be UNRANKED. This means that any actions that take place on your server will not be uploaded to the ranked statistics or count towards awards, unlocks, ranks, etc. Why? Because it costs money to host and support the ranked statistics. It takes a back-end infrastructure and personnel and it all costs money. Want your server to be ranked so that your stats get uploaded? Pay the fee to get hooked up to their ranked system.

Now, I'm going to flip this around and stop talking about Battlefield xx42 (or even Enemy Territory: Quake Wars - which runs on the SAME business model) and replace its name with Hellgate. Ready?

Product cost $50. You get offline/singleplayer client gameplay, and online/multiplayer client gameplay. You get 3 character slots, six classes, and a good-sized bank slot. You get access to differing difficulty levels of play, and access to every piece of content on your product DVD. Somewhat slower connection queues to the servers (which cost the hosting company bandwidth)Period. That's what you get for buying the product.

If you wish to subscribe to the game you will obtain the following: More content as it is created by the development staff (this could be maps, entire acts/campaigns, classes, etc); faster connection queues to the servers (which cost the hosting company bandwidth), more character slots, access to Elite content mode, etc. See? This does not infringe on your gameplay at all as a nonsubscribing player.

In the end, you get what you pay for. You are not getting ripped off by not subscribing. You get MORE if you do subscribe but they are not crippling the game or the gameplay just because you don't. Sure there are ads in the stations. However, the ads help furnish the server and hosting costs for nonsubscribers (because it cost money to run those servers - Think of the servers as RANKED for the FPS genre) - And the ads are almost unnoticable anyways unless you are really looking for them.

Hmm, imho you guys are missing a very important point here - the distinction between psychological and practical ramifications of this model.

Psychologically this model sucks in comparison to GW one. People want to own things. When you buy a nice shiny box you are secure in the knowledge that you own that content from now till kingdom come.

However, the subscription for additional content model is actually beneficial to players from a practical (read $$$) standpoint...

- For measly 10$ you get ALL THE ADDITIONAL CONTENT published so far. If I joined GW now I'd have to dish out 120$+ to get all the stuff.

- With some math and taking into account the periods you didn't actually play (vacations, exams etc) you'll find that this model will actually cost less money per day/played than GW.

- You can discontinue your subscription for whatever reason but you can still stay active in the game. People do take breaks from games and return to them. I see this as an opportunity to meet with game pals occasionally and have some casual fun using the original content. In WoW for example the second your subscription runs out - it's like you're dead, out, kaputt.

- Continuous additions of  new content - since the expansion team has a stable revenue stream they can produce new stuff regularly... From the company's standpoint (GW i.e. ) each new expansion is a risk - first you spend the money on development then hope it'll sell enough to make a profit. The HG:L model allows the company to keep a permanent expansion staff, pay them from subscriptions and churn out regular expansions without any risk to their profits. The FSS announced that they'll have mini-expansions (like new bosses and items) monthly and big ones (on pair with GW expansions, with new regions and classes) every three months... regularly... like clockwork... and I believe them because their business model allows them to do so.

However, being only human I do have my misgivings on the model. I too like to OWN things, to have them ALL MINE... forever...  On the other hand people used to perceive money as gold hidden in buried chests and now we can't imagine our lives without credit cards. So I suppose we can get used to this MMO payment model as well.

Originally posted by Bladin

 

Originally posted by twhint

Well, Bladin, this is the reality of the situation.

 

1. You can claim about the servers being expensive to run, content being paid for, etc. But let's really look at that statement. They're running ads in the game. Ads pay big money, especially if they have a way of telling how many people are viewing those ads.I'm willing to bet that with the number of people who play the game, they can equate that to number of people viewing the ad, which converts into very real dollars that can then be used to pay toward the upkeep of servers and bandwidth quite easily, neither of which is as expensive as you seem to think.

Yes the ads are paying for the servers, this is why it's optional to choose to pay or not.  The ads were not placed in the game to turn a profit.  It was to help support the servers and the cost of running them.  And running servers is more then just a internet cost, you have to pay for the people maintaining the machines, the electricity bills(which is rather high for large server structures, it's not just 1 computer in a guys basement).  The cost of renting the building.   It adds up, how are they going to pay for this 2-4 years from now when box sales have declined.

You lost me with this. They don't rent seperate buildings for seperate games. It's all conglomerated in one area, so I fail to see how you can incorporate this as separate expenses for different games, when it's all the same. I'm very well aware of the expenses involved with running servers in a business environment and having server farms to run applications and such. But again, it's part of the business expense and not counted as separate for each application they run off the servers. As for people maintaining the servers, again, you lost me with that. It's not like they're going to hire a whole new team to run this. More than likely it will be 1 or 2 extra guys, if that, in their already existing IT department. You don't need a lot of manpower to make sure the servers run to their full capacity. Also, think of how they have the game setup. It doesn't require as much resources as a 'traditional' MMORPG might require where you can run into people anywhere in the game. You only run into others in certain areas, carefully controlled by the server and more than likely some sort of database program running for instances. The majority of expense comes from the bandwidth they have to lease, not the actual hardware they run it off of or supporting costs for that hardware. We seem to agree that the ads pay for the cost of maintaining the servers, so this is a moot argument.

As far as content being paid for, developers have used the retail sale of the box to pay for development costs, past and future.

I'm sorry but this is just ignorant.  No other game on the market atm, sells a game, and the continues making content for the game past a xpac with no fees.  Look at diablo 2, around the end it was almost down 1 man making patches.  The cost of maintaining a "mmorpg" is far more then releasing a rpg and then a xpac a year later, and what publisher would keep a large team working on it.  Just to make the current people who ALREADY BOUGHT the game happy.

 

My statement stands as it is. Yes, the mmorpg costs more than your standard standalone software package. The question is, does this setup really require a MMORPG type of atmosphere? For this type of game, not really. This type of game model just doesn't really support it, and with GW having already come out and successfully running the same model without fees, then this is just another knock against this type of setup. 

Here, they're looking for it to be concurrent, so that they can stay in the black all the time and basically gain even more profit. I won't fault them for that because it's really too early to be saying it's good or bad. If I ran a company, I'd want some guarantee I made my money back as well and never had to pay out of my pocket again. But they need to be putting out a lot of content, ie. new game type of content, otherwise you're simply paying $30-40 for an expansion pack that other games would charge $20 for, and that's if they stick to their own schedule and don't 'cut and run'. Again, this is a 'wait and see'.

No game charges 20$ for a xpac, it's normally 40.  And the other mmorpgs charge 15$ and offer practically no content during the months between xpacs.

Gonna have to call shenanigans on this one. Look at any other game out there, and you'll find that expansion packs cost $20. BF2, BF1942, etc. When I look at this type of game model, I don't see a MMORPG. I see a standalone game with multiplayer tacked onto it. It's a scam. They're trying to present all this content and such without the depth of a traditional MMORPG. I think of this as Oblivion, though not as large and not as involved. I sure as hell don't think of this as EQ. With traditional MMORPG's, expansions are full games that add onto the existing game, adding new areas, new items, new monsters, new storylines, etc. For now, it's too early to tell what kind of content they will offer after the game is released, so it's all speculation.

2. 'Special features'. Well, this is a subjective term, isn't it? PvP, storage capacity, player slots, 'Hardcore mode'. Hm...to think that you get that for free in other games. Anti-cheat? Hm...punkbuster does that all the time yet doesn't charge me for it. Again, this isn't a very good incentive of why I should pay extra.

Hardcore mode... hmm Diablo 2.  Really tell me another game to ever do it.  Titan quest didnt offer it, does that mean it's a crappy product? You still get storage(20 instead of 40) and 3 char slots(instead of 12).  More then enough for any average player to enjoy the game.  You also get access to content being made, free players don't get the elite content. Nor do they get the special items made for elite.

Excuse me? Have you never played Doom? Or F.E.A.R.? You beat several games on the normal difficulties and get access to harder modes? The question isn't about what's enjoyable or not, but whether the cost justification for percieved value is there. I'm basically asking why should I pay for stuff I don't really care about. This will be different for each player, but as you can see from the outcry, what's being offered doesn't equate into a real value for the people who pay. Though you will have people who do pay and find value in it. No big deal.

You equate this to the 'cash' shop in other games, but miss the point entirely. They're not the same. In those games you have access to the full game. In this one, you do not.

Yes you do.  The entire game online and offline, is available to you. 

Have to wait on this, but I thought I remember seeing that Act IV and V were only available for paying customers. But we'll see how it goes. If I get a couple of weeks playtime out of this game, then I'll be satisfied.

There are too many unanswered questions about the game. Basically it comes down to faith and I just don't have the faith in these guys to be paying a monthly fee for something of dubious value. For me, I want to play the game with a couple of friends. I could care less about PvP. The auction house could be held in a forum, so the inclusion ingame is of little consequence. I don't really care about mowing mindlessly through unintelligent mobs, so 'hardcore' mode doesn't really do anything for me.

Then you don't have to pay for the elite fee if it doesn't seem valuable enough to you.

Ideally, this game would have a LAN component, where I didn't have to worry about having to run on their servers or anything like that. Nothing in their plan shows me that it's a good value to me, because I simply don't care about what they're advertising.

LAN these days should be removed from most games.  I'm sorry, it's a nice feature, but almost all LAN's should have access to the net.  Frankly with the invention of hamachi and the frequent pirating, LAN games become a huge resource for players who set up networks for people who pirate  their games. Go look at TQ, within 10 minutes i'd bet you'd find at least 3 different hamachi groups and i bet even more money that the people pirated their copy.

You're losing me again with this one and I'm really starting to question your motivations at this point. You're now equating LAN's with pirating copies of software? WTF? So when I go to say, PAX or a LAN competition, it's because they support pirating? LAN is a convenient way to play games with your friends, without the necessary need of connecting to a server located remotely, which would affect ping, lag, etc. The point of a LAN is that you don't need access to the net. It's to play games locally. That's the whole idea.

And yes, I don't have to pay. I understand that. But if I'm going to pay $50-60 for a game, I'd like to know I'm getting the full game. I also like to know that I can play it when I want, whereas if they institute server queues, then that will hamper that.

But as we've all said, you get access to all 6 classes(only 3 char slots so choose which ones you want).  The entire full game, and nightmare mode.  You can still join guilds, you can still kick butt.

But again, it's the percieved value. They are gimping free players in order to make them pay. A lot of the stuff they are offering as perks have no additional cost associated with them, which makes people question why they don't offer it to everyone.

I guess basically it comes down to perceived value, which will be different for each person. For me, the extra money is not justified and I'm willing to bet for a lot of others, which is why you're seeing the uproar.

 

The thing is, people are thinking "they are holding stuff back from us just to charge us extra!"

 

This is far from the truth, if you knew anything about development, developers don't just say "go make us some levels".  They set goals for people to reach.

With the decision to offer more content over time for additional fees, it allows more time for the team to make other stuff.  So while being done before release, it was made with the budget of the predicted income of the following months.

 

You're incorrect in a number of your statements and making blanket statements, which makes me doubt your credibility. People are questioning the entire business model. As it is, it's too early to tell if they are holding anything back. If the game has a defined end point, then they can see they aren't holding anything back. If it doesn't, then it'll just make the game seem like a quick 'grab and run' ploy. As has been brought up, GW is already running the same exact model without online fees. And they are doing it successfully. So that brings up the question of why should we pay for HGL, and honestly, that question has not been adequately answered in any form. Instead, they are showing us differences, which will, of course, lead to comparisons and exclamations that they are gimping 'free' players in favor of paying ones.

Guild Wars runs "without service fees" due to the fact they make their money licensing their technologies to other developers who are under NCSoft. The end player of GW doesn't see this cost but please don't act like they are running it for box cost + 0

Originally posted by Unicorns_Pwn

Guild Wars runs "without service fees" due to the fact they make their money licensing their technologies to other developers who are under NCSoft. The end player of GW doesn't see this cost but please don't act like they are running it for box cost + 0

They make plenty of money on those 150$+ in expansions/original game for 1 account and they are also closing down GW some time in the near future from what I understand to release GW2.

No content is released outside of an expansion in their model. None the less in the end each game has its money being made one way or the other.

Originally posted by namelessbob

 

Originally posted by Unicorns_Pwn

Guild Wars runs "without service fees" due to the fact they make their money licensing their technologies to other developers who are under NCSoft. The end player of GW doesn't see this cost but please don't act like they are running it for box cost + 0

 

They make plenty of money on those 150$+ in expansions/original game for 1 account and they are also closing down GW some time in the near future from what I understand to release GW2.

No content is released outside of an expansion in their model. None the less in the end each game has its money being made one way or the other.

I never denied the money made off of the boxes. And although it is stated that one day like all things GW may end that it won't end just due to GW2 releasing.

The point i was making in my last post though was that both companies will be making money off of the box sales, but ArenaNet is making money by licensing their tech to other NCSoft dev houses.  FSS  states they will be realeasing content to subscribers.. all in all it seems pretty equal to me. just different means to grab at the same money.

O, yeah. Can't deny that. I agree with ya Pwn. Musta just missread your initial post.

lol this whole subscribtion idea is such total bullshit.

Like 'oh well we want to keep supporting the game and bring out cool new content but in order to do that we need to have a team working on it and in order to have a team working we need money !'

How stupid do they think we are. Though obviously alot of people are stupid enough to buy that nonsense and think its a justified reason to ask for a 10 dollar monthly fee lol.

Then how come we have to pay for content already written ? I mean content like Elite mode, Hardcore mode, extra drops you get in those modes and whatever else you get with those modes. Its already in the game !!! Any other game would simply see that as normal content you SHOULD get when you buy the game.

Then they come with their adding content on a regular basis for which they need this 'team' and subscribtion fees. Yeah right, whatever.

Why not do what all other companies do, bring out expansions  ? Well hell no coz with expansions they'd only make what.... 3 or 4 months subscribtion money, 30 or 40 dollar ? While if you would subscribe they could probably get at least double the money for the same content  !

Its kinda funny when other companies manage to release ace products with loads of content and hosted FREE servers with great connectivity and a team working on adding content full time. And this all without any subscribtion fee ! Its a miracle ! How come flagship cannot ? The simple answer is they want BIGGER PROFITS !

Seriously if you people buy that utter bullshit like ohhh well we need to pay for the hosting servers and connections and team working on the content bla bla bla story then yer just the people they need to pay the subscribtions.

Maybe you have forgotton how MMORPG subscribtion fees used to be justified by the development teams in the early days.The reason for those companies was always..."We will be adding live content and events!..... specially events was used alot!. Well how often have you seen events in mmorpgs , also the early mmorpgs ? You can probably count them on one hand. And content lol .... the only extra content you always saw were patches and fixes till the expansion arrived. I think wow was one of the first companies that actually gave good free content updates and set an example for other companies to follow.

So what did we pay those subscribtion fees for again when people thought it was outrageous mmorpgs asked monthly fees ?

You people need to understand that its all business. Im sure they are exited about making cool games at all but in the end it all comes down to making as much money as possible on a product, thats all there is to it and they'll use whatever bullshit story to make you pay as much as possible.

Its just a product they sell, nothing different from some tv you buy in a shop.Its making a good product and selling it for good profit. Thats called doing business.

The only reason they make good games, sometimes, is coz they have the talent to actually make a good profitable game. If crap games were good profit no componany would ever make good games, trust me. Its just about money and nothing more. Dont think they love the gamer so much lol. They love their money.

 Its all marketing and market research which often can result in setting an accepted norm. Like mmorpg fees of 15 euro/dollar a month is an accepted norm. Go over it and the  public asks why ? But why is every single mmorpg worth 15 euro a month then ? Dont tell me they are all as good lol.

Accept this subscribtion fee, which i know many many people will, and other games will follow and so a new accepted norm is set for the games after that.

Stop being so incedibly naief and have yourself be fooled by publisher words.

I don care if you pay subscribtion fees or not. Hell i do it too. But at least i do it while knowing its bullshit but i do it coz i can spare the money. And that's all the count on, they research how many people would pay money for what they want to ask money for. And the boundaries get pushed and pushed till we have to pay for everything.

 Flagship studios is just money hungry and its a risky business model which they are willing to take to get the extra profit they wouldnt get by having an expansion business model.

Originally posted by reggie

lol this whole subscribtion idea is such total bullshit.

Like 'oh well we want to keep supporting the game and bring out cool new content but in order to do that we need to have a team working on it and in order to have a team working we need money !'

How stupid do they think we are. Though obviously alot of people are stupid enough to buy that nonsense and think its a justified reason to ask for a 10 dollar monthly fee lol.

..........................

 Flagship studios is just money hungry and its a risky business model which they are willing to take to get the extra profit they wouldnt get by having an expansion business model.

 

I'd really love to live in your world mate...

I really would - the place where games are being made by insubstantial ghosts that have no other needs except a place to sit and a PC to code on... (oh no, wait, even that costs money!)

You have no idea what you're talking about. If you're so financially comfortable you can afford working 8hrs a day just for the heck of it, please don't hesitate to contact me - I can give you a lot of interesting stuff to do.

... as foir HG:L - it's a financial model just like any other. A matter of balancing between how much your merchendise costs to make and for how much you can sell it. If you remove the psychological barriers I don't see players shortchanged at all (see my previous post). I expect an average player will pay much less per game day than an GW player, for example. And I'd always give money to people that I think deserve it. If EA shares a part of FSS profits then so be it - they do deserve a credit for recognizing and supporting such a great game when it found itself in financial difficulties (before EA stepped in). Fair is fair. And it might encourage EA to give more leeway to its more original and independent developers.

You buy a car right, and you don't go WTF I NEED GAS TO RUN IT?.  People can't provide new updates if the money doesn't come from some where,  so please go play a FPS instead of complaining, your not gonna obliterate the optional fee.

I don't see a problem here. If people want the extra perks and content then they will gladly pay with no issues because it is something they want. If people choose not to pay for the extra stuff then they won't and will continue to play without a subscription fee. The subscription fee is optional.

Just from being in beta the majority of the testers love the game will choose to subscribe. Heck, there was a long list of people in a thread in beta stating they are going to do the Founders subscription. So really, complaining about something that is completely optional is kind of silly and taking up forum space :P

To the people out there that think paying a subscription every month for $10 is absolutely bullshit, just dont buy the damn game. How hard can this be? This thread is getting very long and it just seems like it keeps getting rehashed.

Seriously folks, if you dont want to pay $10 bucks, then dont. Whats the big fricken deal anyways. I mean I know alot of people want shit for free in this world and who wouldnt. If $10 seriously disturbs you, then move on to another game and stop pissing and moaning. There are plenty of other free games out there.

You as a person have a choice, you either do or you dont, how hard is that? You have 3 types of people that look at hellgate.

1. Are opened minded and will try Hellgate out and see if its there cup of tea. Maybe you will subscribe, maybe you wont. $10 isnt shit to you since you can afford cheap pizzas once a month and you know $10 bucks isnt going to break you. You dont mind paying as long as it entertains you.

2. People looking for a free game with everything handed to them since spending $49.99 or $59.99 is going to cripple there pocket books and why should I pay more, isnt $49.99 / $59.99 enough for god sakes. This game should be free, no if ands or buts.

3. Dont give a rats ass about this game since its not a true mmo and are just here to troll and talk shit about a game they wont even be playing, but just like to rant and say how a POS this game really is to them and why you shouldnt like it either.

The game comes with a 18 rating... the price for me will be £7 I think, thats less than four dollars, thats two pints of budweiser in my local, I think I could do without that each month.

Honestly, any adult who complains about 7 quid a month, well they definatly need to get out more. People moaning about the third world blah blah go out there and help, instead of moaning about it and doing nothing, just dont knock a gamer whos willing to give up two pints of lager for a months sub of fun!!!

Ok, I highly doubt anyone here would argue about fees in an MMO(save for those freaks who complain about how everything should be f2p). That stated,

For those who want to pay the $10 a month, you get an MMO-like experience with monthly and quarterly content upgrades, additional character slots, and other perks.

For those who don't wish to pay the $10 a month, you still have a perfectly viable and fleshed out multiplayer experience, and the same thing the monthly players had to begin with before they paid for additional content.

So, what the hell is so hard to grasp here exactly? Or is everyone just BAWWWing over the fact that they're not being given unlimited free content?

PS: In addition, the comparisons to GW are flawed, and even so, there are key differences between the GW model and the Hellgate model that factor largely into things, which have already been discussed.

umm so waht is the "new content" that im getting every month in world of warcraft?

nothing changed since last month, but i still had to pay a monthly fee....

my dog could create that much content in a month....and i dont have a dog.

so tell me apart from the stuff thats already packaged in the game....where is my monthly sub value worth of content?

is it  all the  new players tha lollercopter round each realm?

logically i cant equate my monthly sub to new content....

all i can equate it to is server maintenance & administration.

becuase after i paid money for the first box then the TBC box...im pretty sure those paid for the upgrades and new content.

But then again if i open a theme park and charge everyone a one off fee, i being a selfish prick would not keep opening the doors each day if you didnt keep paying me to.

simple.

or is it the festivals that happen without patching?

Its very simple, none pay monthly fee, and within a week or 2 we all get the stuff for free. Too bad theres so many suckers

Originally posted by airtonix

umm so waht is the "new content" that im getting every month in world of warcraft?

nothing changed since last month, but i still had to pay a monthly fee....

my dog could create that much content in a month....and i dont have a dog.

 

so tell me apart from the stuff thats already packaged in the game....where is my monthly sub value worth of content?

is it  all the  new players tha lollercopter round each realm?

 

logically i cant equate my monthly sub to new content....

 

all i can equate it to is server maintenance & administration.

becuase after i paid money for the first box then the TBC box...im pretty sure those paid for the upgrades and new content.

 

But then again if i open a theme park and charge everyone a one off fee, i being a selfish prick would not keep opening the doors each day if you didnt keep paying me to.

 

simple.

or is it the festivals that happen without patching?

 

Not that this is the WOW forum but there has been a very good amount that has gone into the game after the TBC expansion. Honestly, WOW is the absolutely worst example to put up here complaining about monthly fees; they have put a TON back into the game in the way of instances, items, PVP content, web functionalty (armory, etc), voice chat, etc.

Nobody promised you a monthly content update for your $15. What they did promise (as a majority of MMO content providers promise) is that there will be constant updates to the game. Most of the big name MMOs deliver on their promise for new content: LotRO, CoH/V, WOW, etc. Hellgate is probably one of the very few companies out there telling you an exact content schedule (before you decide to subscribe or not): Something new every month and something huge every quarter.

What you (and your dog, evidently) don't realize is that building content for MMO games takes months of work and thousands of man-hours to deliver (from concept, to design, to programming, to testing, to tuning, publishing, and then support). Somebody has to pay for that amount of work done. If you are reaping the benefit of that content, then chances are it is you that is paying for it.

The fantastic thing about the monthly fee MMO model is that you, as the consumer, have the power of decision. If you don't wish to give big old bad MMO company XYZ anymore of your hard-earned cash you can simply cancel your subscription. And you can even choose to only pay them when new content is released that particular month.

In regards to Hellgate: London. If you don't wish to give them money, it is OK. Honestly, nobody is going to hold it against you for not paying FSS. You can spend your lunch money elsewhere. But just remember: you get what you pay for.

Originally posted by Krulos

Its very simple, none pay monthly fee, and within a week or 2 we all get the stuff for free. Too bad theres so many suckers

Goodluck in thinking that the paid for content will be available for free within a week or two - The game's subscribers would cancel. And if nobody subscribed they would not be able to sustain the infrastructure and support to continue with the game. This is pretty much how all MMOs function: Require a constant stream of revenue to continue operations related to the game (bug fixes, new content, support, maintenance, etc).

Furthermore, I don't think that I am a sucker for subscribing for new and/or exclusive content (nor anyone else who subscribes). Nobody is forcing you to pay the subscription fee. Nobody is even forcing you to buy the game and play it. Don't insult those who wish to do so; respect people's decisions, especially when it comes to their money. If you have an argument, then state it and back it up with facts (which your, thankfully, short post was entirely devoid of).

Far as I am concerned the fee is not optional.  Too many restrictions of the free to pay portion.

So YES it is a big problem because the content just does not justify a fee.  Heck I would rather get another Eve account than pay HGL's ridiculous fee.  At least for the Eve fee I get character development and CONTENT!

Go right ahead and pay the fee, but you are getting far less for your money then any other MMO.  I call that being foolish with your money, but it is your money.