Originally posted by Fennris

"Hard work is its own reward"  is a notion that rich people forced down the throats of poor people back when poor people were uneducated.

LOL.  Whatever.

If someone has a choice of using dynamite to dig a ditch in less than an hour or else spend hundreds of hours digging the old fashioned way to accomplish the same thing, only a masochist will pick up a shovel, all else being equal.  And only idiots will be annoyed if they didn't know they had a choice until after they had finished digging.

Not quite the same thing here.  This is more of a case of digging the ditch before dynamite was invented and then being pissed at the first guy who used dynamite after it was invented.  If the expansion is already out and you're still trying to get the Black belt the hard way, then yeah you're a little slow on the uptake, but to call the guy dumb who works to get the black belt the only way there is to get it stupid is a stretch.  That's called perserverance.  Determination.  Admirable qualities.  Course us poor unedumacated people don't think like you slick talking rich folk.

If raiding is like digging ditches for you, don't do it.  And no, it is not fair that those that worked hard to achieve goals are suddenly eclipsed by those that worked much less hard just because they bought an expansion.  But this isn't about fairness, it is about greed on Blizzard's part and that too is a sin. 

Here's a hint.  Life ain't fair.  Deal with it.  New stuff comes along all the time and you go with the flow.  Those of you standing around bitching about change need to get out of the way of us who are using it to our advantage.  And that ain't greed on Blizzard's part, that's first class made in the good 'ol US of A capitalism at work.

Along similar lines, if a game producer offered to formally sell gear/xp/levels/skills for real $, the game would flop.  No one would play that.  It wouldn't be fair in an obvious way and it would become expensive to compete. 

Well I guess we are about to see because that exact scenario is being tried with Hellgate: London and I think a few others.  It's free to play, however you can pay an extra fee to get gear and other benefits.

It was a very similar, but disguised, deal with TBC and MC/AQ vets.  Not many people still go to MC/AQ anymore and I doubt anyone does it regularly and without 65+ level characters with Outland gear (making the job much less 'hard work').

So instead they go to the instances in Outland.  But no one forced them to do that, they did it of there own free will to get the better loot.  That makes Blizzard bad? Because they provided something of value and charged people for it? LOL.  What exactly do you do for a living?  Maybe you inherited your money from your daddy?  You need to ask him about hard work.

You need newer, fewer and more accurate/relevant cliches Pappy.  For example, how is "Life isn't fair. Deal..." applied to a discussion about a game?  Games should be fair almost by definition.  Rhetoric 101... 

Anyways, Blizzard isn't bad.  They're greedy but that's fine with me (that is one of the deadly sins someone was babbling about earlier though).   They shouldn't have done what they did to raiders; they essentially introduced dynamite to make their product more enticing in the short term without trying other things or something more long term first.  I'm personally not a raider and never have been and don't care much at all about endgame WoW; I was just making observations.

I quit raiding after the expansion came out. Raiding is very little fun besides killing a boss for your first time and is really just about getting good gear. Unfortunately, all epic gear gets eclipsed by greens once a year.

I never really started raiding.

I've got off the gear train at the heroics.

Now I just play for fun.

The raids seem ok and popular.  It's reasonable to progress your gear at the same rate in the end game as I was all through levelling.

I still get an upgrade a day and i've been lvl 70 for over 6 months. Often i get more than one a day.

Looking forward to the next expansion when the upgrade speed will pick up, and it won't just be gear that will advance me. Plus there will be acres of new content to explore.

I have no problem with all my hard one epix becoming redundant. In fact I look forward to it.

Originally posted by Fennris

You need newer, fewer and more accurate/relevant cliches Pappy.  For example, how is "Life isn't fair. Deal..." applied to a discussion about a game?  Games should be fair almost by definition.  Rhetoric 101... 

Anyways, Blizzard isn't bad.  They're greedy but that's fine with me (that is one of the deadly sins someone was babbling about earlier though).   They shouldn't have done what they did to raiders; they essentially introduced dynamite to make their product more enticing in the short term without trying other things or something more long term first.  I'm personally not a raider and never have been and don't care much at all about endgame WoW; I was just making observations.

Games should be fair for everyone playing at a particular point in time.  That doesn't mean that the rules of the game can never change.  Take any sport which is essentially a game and the rules constantly change.  Does that make the sport unfair?  No, because everyone is informed of the changes and they can adjust to the changes.  That keeps the sport fair.  You can argue that it's tougher/easier than before, but that doesn't make it unfair to people playing now.  It all goes back to why you raid in the first place.  If you raid to get gear just because it's a goal of yours like I do then there's satisfaction in knowing that you accomplished your goal.  If on the other hand you raid so that you can wave your gear in someone else's face to show them how great you are, then yeah I can see why you would be upset because everyone is gonna laugh at you because they know they can get better now.

Go back and read my initial comments.  I never said there was no reason to be upset with the changes, I said it depends on why you raid in the first place.  It doesn't bother me.  It does bother some people.  If you're going to make observations without really having an opinion of your own, you should be more open to listening to alternate opinions.

i quit raiding 2 months ago...i donteven play that much anymore but im still subscribed, i dunno i just cant bring myself to quit WoW. Raiding could be fun for all your hardcore raiders out there but you just need to raid with well mannered people unlike some jerks..*cough Kyvana in the Underbog server,  people SHOULD stop raiding now since xpac is coming and im assuming a level 70 with greens should be able to quest 70-72 and grab green gear, hope people will rrealize it soon

way before TBC came out - I quit the game outright

Raid or Die? I chose die

Originally posted by MrVicchio

I'm just curious, with the Xpac coming how many people are going to quit raiding before release.  I'm all ready fatigued by running the same 5-7 instances on heroic everyweek for those last bits of gear, of running Kara nd Gruuls so we can be geared for the next stop...

 

I'm ready to qwuit, it's pointless now and we all know it, but how many will admit it?  And when?

I quit about a year ago. I highly recommend it. Monotony and timesink way outweigh the fun and entertainment value.

Originally posted by Kenze

Ive never started.  Hardcore raiding  and  Hardcore Raiding guilds all seem to go at WoW like its a second job or something. I play for fun. I have no timetable or long term end game goals. I do what seems fun to me at the time.

If raiding has become a chore/bore for you then stop.

I joined a big guild over a year ago and we started our raiding.  When we were doing ZG everything was fine, people still friendly and helpful.  As we moved up to MC, people started getting greedy "I deserve this loot" mentality.  By the time we were hitting BWL, it was pretty much every minute you're online should be prepping for the next raid.  Heck, when I asked for help doing my dreadsteed quest I was told "how will that help us raid?  You should be farming mats for fire pots".  Needless to say, I quit shortly there after.

I did the raiding thing a lot in EQ1.  So I admit I am kinda burned out on it.  I did give WoW raiding a try, but pre-BC it seemed that's all the game was now.... Raiding.  Now post-BC I'm even less inclined to raid for the sole reason that what if I get the 70 epic Sword of Uberness and find that the 1st green BoE level 71 drop in Northrend is comparable?  So, I can "settle" for the blues I have now and enjoy hanging with my friends and guildies.

The people designing WoW at this point in time are not the same people that designed WoW 1.0 the whole fun from 1-60 was just an idea on someone elses mind, the people designing WoW atm have set their minds "its a raiding game" and that's what it will be from now on, the same recycled ideas XPAC after XPAC.