Reading through the WoW Upper thread made me think about my impression of WoW. I honestly think WoW, when its broken down and objectivly and impartially reviewed is a damn good game. They did a LOT of things right.

However, I left WoW for several reasons and those reasons are things I now think about when I investigate and chose to play the next MMORPG coming out.

What things in WoW did you encounter that will make a significant impact in your future MMORPG decisions?

Although I know this can spiral into a flame "I hate WoW" thread. DO NOT post about how much you hate WoW. Stick to the question. List 1 major thing in WoW do you NOT want in your next game.

Torrential

I don't want the next game to be as "easy".  Yes, how else could they get 7 or 8 million subscribers?  I guess Im just too tired of shitheads and people who haven't hit puberty yet. 

I guess what I am saying is the game, any game,  needs a lot more

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Alah, thank you for this thread.

Okay apart from depth that was already mentioned, WoW didnt bring a single new idea into MMORPG. I want every MMORPG to at least try to bring something new.

Just one thing? I guess it would have to be their focus on loot/epic equipment.

I think that in the next game, I will hope for a mini-map and world map that will display where the quest begining, objectives, and end is. Sometimes I just sit there and re-read the quest 12-15 times before I finnaly  against my desk a few times trying to remember where the f*** the dude with the spikey hair and pointed ears is... of course Thott and that help... but I'd prefer to just have it in-game.

I'm going to pay more attention to the end game plan, and make sure its in line with my overall goals.  I really enjoyed leveling characters in WOW (had 5 60's) ...but that raiding end game did me in (I gave it two good trys).  Also, I'll try to avoid games that add features like faction grinding.... useless timesinks IMO......

And maybe someday, I'll find some sort of crafting system that doesn't make me want to wretch and hurl the whole mess out of the game completely... (like...if I could actually make things for myself that I could use at my current level...that would be a start)

And fun PVP..... no, not all instanced based arena's, but a game with some decent open world PVP..... and the PVP has to be about killing other players.....and not capturing flags, or killing PVE boss mobs to end the scenario....

• The lack of meaningful PvP.
• Immaturity of a lot of the players.
• Inability to speak to the opposite faction (not a big problem, but would be cool if we could)
• Grindfest.
• Boring to gain rep.
• Very repetitive and boring once you reach the lvl cap.
• The importance of gear in determining PvP outcome.

Other than that WoW was a good game for me. I spent 2 years playing and had a great time. I'm just looking for something more substantial to play now. I.e Meaningful PvP, Interesting PvE and a more player dependant economy.

The things that finally burned me out on WoW that I will be very wary of in other games are:

1) Static world - it's about time devs give us worlds that players feel like they impact.

2) Repetitive rep grinding - this was a lazy way to give players "new" things to do without having to add new content or dungeons. Probably the straw that broke the camel's back in my experience.

3) Linear endgame - Everyone reaching for the same carrot, everyone running around in the same armor sets. One of the things that kept me playing WoW for a year and a half was the fact that from 1-60 you could progress through soloing, grouping, dungeon-crawling, world questing, you name it. Once you got to endgame, the only options were PvP or raid content.

Most of the problems I had with WoW are problems that could be leveled at most MMORPGs out there. WoW was good enough where I stuck with it longer than any other MMORPG I played, but I feel like the devs got very lazy very quick and decided to rest on their laurels rather than pushing things even further.

I played WoW for a while and the thing I am going to look out for in my next MMO's is: is their room for new things to come out later in its "life", Did this MMO (as stated before) Bring something new to the MMO table that hasnt been done before, (also Stated before) what is the end game and level cap like? will i be stuck raiding dungeons for the rest of the time playing? Will i need the best gear in order to compete in pvp that can only be achieved by raiding said dungeons for hours on end? or will end game be an option and an actual goal to accomplish other than getting ready for the next dungeon they have planned?, PVP a big factor for me: will i be able to talk to the people i pvp against? will classes be balanced?or will i be playing paper rock scissors with my class against other classes (ie Rogue VS. Warrior with a big 2hander that can crit me in 2 shots)? Will weapons be balanced (yes he has a 2hander but over all it does the same amount of damage compared to my 2 little daggers) something like that? Is it going to be skill over gear? then PVE: will i be slaughtering pointless mobs for hours on end to get to the next level so that i can spend increasing amounts of money to increase a skill by only a few points of damage? or will i be able to pick and chose my skills and how i want to develop my toon instead of a pre-determined pathway?

All these are a FEW reasons why I quit WoW and why I will never play another game like it. If it turns out a game that Im playing ends up being a dead end game near the max level I will save my time and money and not cry over another game once SWG got screwed up I quit, once I realized WoW was the same boring thing over and over I quit, I want a good dev team one that actually cares about its subscribers and I want a game that can keep my interest peaked no matter how long I play a day rather its 30mins or a good solid 6 hours on slow days.

Challenging game play, that is easy to learn, but hard to master.  Add to this a slower rate of progression so we can do away with the dumbasses crying for more content two weeks after the game is released.

rep grind, rep grind, rep grind... or in other cases, raid, raid ,raid. I want to enjoy the game not constantly grind or raid. The other thing I watch for is if the game is too dependent on equiptment.

If you didnt raid or pvp grind then you were basically screwed no matter how well you knew your character because the person with the best gear won 97% of the time.

Other then that I enjoy the game.

I also hate grinding of any kind. However, lets be honest ...WoW did not invent the grind. Ok perhaps they put an emphasis on REP grind, but rep is just another form of 'XP'. Its all grind be it XP, REP, Faction, whatever.

WoW is hardly the worst grind Ive had in MMORPGs, heck anyone remember early Everquest?

Torrential

Reaching level cap. My first game was Anarchy Online. I've off-and-on been a subscriber of AO for 5 years and my main only reached 218/17. Before the AO expansion, I stopped leveling at 175. I felt powerful enough to not finish to the cap and still take on what endgame content was available.

Cookie cutter talent builds.  Everybody has the same build,

Non-customization of characters.

Profession system is really lacking.No other means  to advance professionally than raiding (recipes). Very few sellable items.

Linearity. Everybody does the same quests, with every character.

Static world.

No real differences between factions. Same classes, same talents.

Originally posted by Jizhak

 

Cookie cutter talent builds.  Everybody has the same build,

Not true.  Some builds are popular, but you can do whatever you want.  People say that there are optimum builds, but this demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the game.  It depends what you need to do.  As a shadow priest, I sometimes feel the pressure to respec holy, but I'm not a healer type person, so I don't.

Some people reckon they have the perfect build, but there isn't one, because there's not a single build that's optimal in all situations, for PvE and PvP.

Non-customization of characters.

You mean talents?  Or physical appearance?  For the latter: it's not the most customizable game out there but it certainly isn't the worst either.  For talents, I can completely change my role from healer to DPS by respeccing, I can lean toward utility or efficiency, damage output or how much damage I can take.  That's customization.

Profession system is really lacking.No other means  to advance professionally than raiding (recipes). Very few sellable items.

You can buy most rare recipies from the AH.  Yes, they're expensive, but rare things are.

Linearity. Everybody does the same quests, with every character.

Not true, horde and alliance have completely different camps and quest givers.  Sure there's a lot of cross-over, but it's not the same.  Also, it's impossible to do all the quests the first time, or even the second time around, because you out-level them.

Static world.

Not as static as most MMOs, especially with all the seasonal events which are far better designed than most things.  Carnivals, fishing contests, ram-racing contests.. etc etc etc.

No real differences between factions. Same classes, same talents.

Aside from racial talents which do have an impact, the game is done this way to be balanced.

 

Blood-red text ftw.

You may wonder why I'm bothering to argue with why you don't like the game.  I have no problem with people not liking WoW, what irritates me is they dislike WoW for completely nonsensical reasons..

You can criticize many aspects, such as the cartoony style, the competitive emphasis, the change of pace at the end game, and lots more.   But the reasons you gave are baloney, to be blunt.  They're either archetypal criticisms of the genre, in which case they do not belong in a thread devoted to a particular game, or you're mistaken.

i dont want to play a game so gear dependant that for sure.

And i dont want games in the game.. for me PVP in WOW ( even in pvp servers) is just another game apart from the "whole".. i like pvp but in a faction vs faction it has to be done right.

I dont want to be forced to quest to lvl either

reputation ( if there is any) i dont want to have to grind it.. that is not realistic ( come up with  some realistic epic quest for that ... rep is earned through your actions not regarding the amount of XXXX crap you killed).

Not that easy.. being a hardcore player ( i play over 8 hours day thanks to my job allowing it) i  also think any game should be playbel by players with less time than i have.. but still got to found a good average i d like to know that someone max lvl have a good chance to know how to play wich isnt the case in WoW.

i stop here cuz  even i agree with OP that WoW  did lot of things right i also believe it did the same amount wrong.

well i cant complain about wows pve i feel they've done a good job there. now the pvp i feel is lacking...alot. i want a game to where it matters if your side wins or loses. if i'm pvp'n in a group of 40 people and 39 of us kick ass and theres 1 that sucks ass i don't want that 1 rewarded the same as the 39.

i want pvp with meaning. pvp that has an outcome on the world thats so strong in its effects that people pvp ONLY TO WIN and not just for some gear.

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Originally posted by GazMc

• The lack of meaningful PvP.
• Immaturity of a lot of the players.
• Inability to speak to the opposite faction (not a big problem, but would be cool if we could)
• Grindfest. Boring to gain rep. Very repetitive and boring once you reach the lvl cap. The importance of gear in determining PvP outcome.

Other than that WoW was a good game for me. I spent 2 years playing and had a great time. I'm just looking for something more substantial to play now. I.e Meaningful PvP, Interesting PvE and a more player dependant economy.

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I agree with everything you said but no MMO can control the maturity level of their players. Just not going to happen period especially if that MMO is very succesful.

I hate how WoW must balance classes between PvE and PvP.   For example a MS warrior is awesome in PvP but worthless as a tank for raids. 

I want my next MMO to be more of a sandbox game,  not 500 quests per zone holding my hand through the content. 

I agree along with no more instanced PVP easy rewards. That kills world PvP because it is more convenient.