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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

SWG Veteran Refuge  » Almost 2 yrs later and what?

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121 posts found
  SioBabble

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/07
Posts: 2823

10/15/07 5:39:26 PM#41

Setting the game in the period between ANH and ESB did create limitations on it, but I think Koster picked that period in particular because he wanted to appeal to an adult, not kiddie, audience.

Too bad for him that the ADD wankers at Lucasarts are all totally obsessed with lightsabers.

CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

Once a denizen of Ahazi

  Shayde

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/05
Posts: 4551

The game isn’t designed to keep people playing." - Smed

NOW you realize that! - Shayde

10/15/07 6:41:09 PM#42

Originally posted by SioBabble

Setting the game in the period between ANH and ESB did create limitations on it, but I think Koster picked that period in particular because he wanted to appeal to an adult, not kiddie, audience.

Too bad for him that the ADD wankers at Lucasarts are all totally obsessed with lightsabers.

The only limitation was their imaginations. There was virtually a million plot directions they could have gone, because there was about 2 years between ANH and ESB.

 

It was a civil war. Maybe Tallus had a weapons plant that needed destroying? The gungans resisting imperial rule? Hell.. the tuskens could have tried to take over Mos Entha. That's just three things off the top of my head. The parameters were "Don't break canon" and they couldn't even stop from doing that.

There were countless EU characters to run with.. Admiral Dalaa, all of the Rogue Squadron (Man, wouldn't it have been great to have you be able to work your way into Rogue Squadron by space missions? The 181st if you're Imp? ) They could not just be an NPC you get a couple chat bubbles with, but something tangible.

 

They had such a vast canvas and they didn't even know it.

Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.


It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  User Deleted
10/15/07 6:54:08 PM#43

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

What does the Dev team really have to show for this past two years? I've gone back a few times since the NGE happened and even after this past update (Beastmaster).

In my opinion, they should have already had the Jedi issues fixed, which is the only class I really want to play. I would prefer the Pre-NGE game, but if the only Star Wars MMO I have to choose from is SWG, then I at least want to have fun playing the class I want to play.

Anyone else that have actually played this game since the NGE feel that SOE is moving WAY to slow on fixing and improving SWG?

 

 Hasn't SOE always moved WAY to slow in fixing the game?  You should ask this question on the official Station boards, and be prepared to defend your question.

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

10/15/07 7:06:57 PM#44

Originally posted by Shayde

 

Originally posted by SioBabble

Setting the game in the period between ANH and ESB did create limitations on it, but I think Koster picked that period in particular because he wanted to appeal to an adult, not kiddie, audience.

Too bad for him that the ADD wankers at Lucasarts are all totally obsessed with lightsabers.

 

The only limitation was their imaginations. There was virtually a million plot directions they could have gone, because there was about 2 years between ANH and ESB.

 

It was a civil war. Maybe Tallus had a weapons plant that needed destroying? The gungans resisting imperial rule? Hell.. the tuskens could have tried to take over Mos Entha. That's just three things off the top of my head. The parameters were "Don't break canon" and they couldn't even stop from doing that.

There were countless EU characters to run with.. Admiral Dalaa, all of the Rogue Squadron (Man, wouldn't it have been great to have you be able to work your way into Rogue Squadron by space missions? The 181st if you're Imp? ) They could not just be an NPC you get a couple chat bubbles with, but something tangible.

 

They had such a vast canvas and they didn't even know it.

God I remember those nasty Tusken raids in Bestine and Entha, but the droid invasion has to be the single best live event in SWG history and they occured all over the place and were very challenging- I think this was around publish 7-8 just before the big publish 9 Jedi change.  I'm sure not many will agree with me but the devs at that time were better than the ones were in the CU and NGE, I think SOE changed the dev staff at least 3 times in the past 4 years.

The changes to Jedi in publish 9 wasn't a bad thing either, it made Jedi a bit more balanced and countered the need for perma death (and skill loss) which was a pretty harsh penalty due to connection and stability bugs that existed, and had they not made the FRS too easily farmable with fight clubbing it would have been better (I stayed at rank 0 knight as a master healer).


  User Deleted
10/15/07 7:49:08 PM#45

Originally posted by =GK=Darkstar

Ok we get it you dont like the NGE and you put some lame "Dont Keep Paying SOE" on your Tat house when you cancelled you subs which have all gone now btw

Just move on and leave the community you all said would die, (which didnt) to play a game they like.

i hated the game when the CU came out as you and all you Banther hunters who had nothing better to do all got together for Yawntastic hunts.

The NGE was not the answer to how it was when the game was first came out but its a better game than that CU you all hark back to.

In fact most of the original pre CU players are still playing whilst all of you guys live with this We hate SOE crap.

Move on mate, its getting boring now

Ok ive never called anyone out on these forums before, But wtf ,this is the refuge forums, you know people who left swg  with good reason.
  If your still playing that crap  maybe you should "move on"to the SWG current forums.

 And i would like to point out that most of the precu players are NOT  still playing . If they are please show me numbers that pove this. All i have to do is read the official forums and read the whines about no players on most of the servers to know that is total BS.
  My apologies if you find our threads boring, maybe you should go play SWG and forget about us SOE haters then you wont get bored. 
  Because some of us actually find the "WE hate SOE threads" amusing and worth our time to read and post.    And we wont stop until we find a game actually worthy of our attention. Not virtuall babysitter games like the present crop of MMOs

  korvass

Novice Member

Joined: 5/29/06
Posts: 630

Has successfully forgiven SOE/LA for the NGE.

10/15/07 7:56:50 PM#46

Originally posted by Obraik

A list for you:

  • Revamped Heavy Weapons (free targeting with no target needed to fire)
  • Leveling via questing
  • Restuss event
  • Profession expertise
  • GCW static bases (PvP zones around the Galaxy that give out rewards the longer your faction holds them)
  • GCW faction rank system
  • Implementation of a Smuggling system
  • Implementation of a ground RE system
  • Implementation of the Beast Master expertise to replace Creature Handler.
  • 2 bug bashes
  • Revamped Imperial and Rebel themeparks
  • Implemented the Collections system
  • Implemented the Heroic encounters
  • Returned and revamped the Village

Now, what's wrong with Jedi?

Obraik, I never usually consider disagreeing with you, because I think you consistently post constructive contributions here, but I disagree with you on the highlighted point above. That delivery system they implemented was many things, but it was NOT smuggling. At least not to me. I waited like a good doggie for 3-4 years for that system, and all I got was the same old rinse and repeat deliveries and identically spawning npcs every single time. It was dull, grindy and entirely predictable.

In short, it was about the laziest piece of coding they could have done. I gave up on stage three because I realised it wasn't going to become any more fun, and there was nothing to work towards at the end of the day.

Technically, you could call it smuggling, fair enough. It's all irrelevant now as I've given up trying to go back now. I love my community there, but they aren't paying my sub fees.

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

10/15/07 8:29:11 PM#47

 

 

Originally posted by =GK=Darkstar

In fact most of the original pre CU players are still playing whilst all of you guys live with this We hate SOE crap.


Sorry dude but I find this really difficult to believe, my friends list was above 70 members on it and almost always 20-25 online at a time back then in 2003-2005, when I went to play a little during the vet reactivation trial there was 0 online, ZERO.  I did recognize a few names wheN I wandered around but they were also on the vet reactivation trial, a couple were liking the changes, but I personally wasn't satisfied.

As a matter of fact quite a few I knew from back then don't even mention SWG anymore, they're off playing WoW, GW or EQ2, CoH, or just plain not playing any game at all.  My old guild's website/forum died out and doesn't exist anymore.


  Obraik

Ewok

Joined: 5/02/05
Posts: 7303

10/15/07 8:38:38 PM#48

Originally posted by akevv

I cannot help myself here. Obraik, I will open with a question:

Has the SOE dev team EVER done anything wrong in your eyes?

I have never seen you even once question anything they have ever done. Everyone knows you enjoy the game. I totally respect that. It is one of the only places to get a science fiction experience. Where you loose your credibility is your total, undying support for anything these people do. I truly think that if they erased your characters altogether, you would proclaim it as a chance to start anew and still be in love with SOE.

As for everything you have listed below, I can only see one truly new thing that we didn't have in a previous version; the heavy weapon reticle. Everything else listed is a feature we already had or should NOT have to pay for. Bug bashes as content!?!? Are you serious?

You ask what is wrong with Jedi and you also say that you prefer the speed of combat. Have you ever actually looked at yourself run? The feet don't even match the pace of the ground covered. Jedi as a starter profession, totally degraded to the point where they are no stronger than any other profession, is opposite of the movie experience. Jedi were few, and they were much, much more capable in combat, negotiations, and diplomacy than anyone else. The old game at least attempted to emulate the path as best as they could. The new game hands it out like candy and doesn't even ask its patrons to behave like a Jedi.

The game is a mess, but through your eyes, all is well. I think perhaps that in RL you don't have a lot of power or respect, so you cling to this game as if it actually means something.

Obraik, it doesn't and playing it, defending everything about it, does not complete you. You should really try to be so passionate about something that actually matters, like feeding the homeless. I am very sure with your drive, there would not be a hungry soul in NZ.

/hug

You are a good guy, just misdirected.

<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Obraik</i>
<br><b><p>A list for you:</p>
<ul>
<li>Revamped Heavy Weapons (free targeting with no target needed to fire)</li>
<li>Leveling via questing</li>
<li>Restuss event</li>
<li>Profession expertise</li>
<li>GCW static bases (PvP zones around the Galaxy that give out rewards the longer your faction holds them)</li>
<li>GCW faction rank system</li>
<li>Implementation of a Smuggling system</li>
<li>Implementation of a ground RE system</li>
<li>Implementation of the Beast Master expertise to replace Creature Handler.</li>
<li>2 bug bashes</li>
<li>Revamped Imperial and Rebel themeparks</li>
<li>Implemented the Collections system</li>
<li>Implemented the Heroic encounters</li>
<li>Returned and revamped the Village</li>
</ul>
<p>Now, what's wrong with Jedi?</p></b></blockquote>
<br>

Of course there's stuff I disagree with, most recently it was changes made to Medic.  I also disagree with their choice to give out completed armour rewards rather then schematics.  Stat wise, the suits are rather crap compared to anything that can be crafted and can't be used in simillar high end content that you need to go through to actually get the armour.   Those that listen to me on Vent know I have my periods where I can bitch about a number of different things ;)

I disagree with you that heavy weapon free targeting is the only new thing added.  I also never paid anything extra for the bug bash, how do you propose they hand that out for "free"?

It was inevitable that Jedi became a starting profession due to a number of different factors.  The first was that Jedi was never hard to unlock, it just required time to grind out all the XP.  After 4 years of the game and people grinding there'd be a large chunk of Jedi running around even with the original pre-pub 9 system.  With the XP rates in the CU this only became more likely and to me, there seemed to be a larger portion of Jedi running around towards the end of the CU then there is now.  People felt the need to grind Jedi to be the best at the game because without it, they were at a disadvantage against anyone that was a Jedi which only fueled the Jedi grinders.  Lastly, LucasArts knows that Jedi sells, I'm sure their logic is that if Jedi can be obtained easily then sales are going to improve.

I have a rather good grasp on reality and where the game fits into it all.  I'm just as passionate about plenty of non-gaming subjects as I am about SWG (note my All Blacks support avatar.  No mention of the French, please ;) ).  I do sometimes wonder if the same can be said about others on this forum that make a point to go to every single thread related to SWG and do their very best to bring it down.

  Obraik

Ewok

Joined: 5/02/05
Posts: 7303

10/15/07 8:41:21 PM#49
Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Originally posted by Obraik

 These Devs have also introduced more into the game in the same period of time then what was done pre-nge..

 

Care to back that up?

 

I'll start:

Pre-NGE (jun03 - nov05)

Jump to light speed

Rage of the wookies

Trials of ObiWon

Combat upgrade (yeah not great, but it was added prior to nge)

 

Post-NGE (nov05-oct07)

No expansions at all

removed 24 professions

reintroduced some things that were already in the game prior to nov05

Something for heavy weapons.

 

That just about sums up the last 2 years in SWG. 

 

Seriously who are you trying to convince when you make statements like that?  New players or yourself?  No one who played before the NGE could accept that statement as anything but blind loyalty that flies in the face of facts and reason.

You had to pay extra for all that content introduced.  The content that's been introduced over the last 2 years has been at no extra charge.  Chapter 7 almost has as much content included in it as ToOW did.

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

10/15/07 9:15:18 PM#50

I just knew you couldn't back up your statement with a list.  SWG prior to NGE had tons more content, fact.  Post NGE they have removed more content than they added.

Rehashing old systems that were already in the game or removed and reintroduced again doesn't count as adding content.  Ohh revamped heavy weapons, ohhh revamped 2 theme parks that were already in the game.  That is like me taking $50 from your wallet and returning 50 cents and you get excited that you have more money now.

Wasn't the NGE supposed to make managing the game easier and they could add content faster?

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Daedalus732

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/07
Posts: 594

10/15/07 9:28:03 PM#51

I tried to get back into this game, I really did not long ago. I thought if only I could just accept the combat system, the game would work for me and I would have fun. But that was nonsense.

I found many things about the game broken, repetitive, and simply not fun. That isn't to say that it would have been perfect if the NGE was scrapped and we got "classic" servers, because frankly, I left and returned to SWG several times in the period before the NGE. As far as I am concerned, until vehicles came out, the game was incredibly boring.

SWG was a solid concept that failed in its execution from the beginning. It could have gone so many awesome directions, and instead of being creative and having fun with the system, the developers panicked and released a game that needed a few more features and then desperately tried to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Before the NGE, I NEVER saw credit spammers. When I returned, I couldn't have normal conversations in some of the starports. The free passes to the game did this I'm sure, but it's all tied to the almighty dollar that SOE worships beyond all else.

 

 

  SioBabble

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/07
Posts: 2823

10/16/07 12:06:52 AM#52

The unfortunate truth, in my view, is that SWG pre-CU relied on the skill system as its content.  There were a smattering of quests, some of them broken and ignore, there were dungeons scattered about the worlds that rarely had a story reason to be there, but could have had a story reason if only they'd taken time to get the story written.

One thing about WoW: nearly every last mob has a story reason for being where it is.  Not true with SWG.  Oh, finally, at long last with the Legacy quest, we got an explanation for the Rogue CorSecs, and their island.  But we still don't know a lot about a lot of POIs/Dungeons scattered about the worlds.  What's the story behind the Chunker Bunker on Talus?  I mean, we know why there is a crazy druid dungeon in Ashenvale in WoW; there's an actual story to it.  But the Chunker Bunker?  Your guess is as good as mine is!

The game was released before it was ready, not only from stability, game play, and polish issues, but from content issues.  It had the skill system in place, that became the predominant content.

Then the NGE came along and took that content away.

And SOE and LA wondered why they lost tens of thousands of subscribers when they took away the primary content of the game...the skill system that allowed you to create your own avatar based on your playstyle.

The content that was at the center of preNGE SWG (albeit remarkably limited by the level system of the CU) has not been restored by any stretch of the imagination.

CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.

Once a denizen of Ahazi

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

10/16/07 12:59:09 AM#53

The pre-cu "content" seemed to have been based heavily on the Star Wars EU, a friend of mine read alot of the EU and noticed alot of similarities in SWG back then, such as the location of Nightsisters and Singing Mountain clan and why they fought each other, there was a reason for each type of mob being where they were in the game.


  severius

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

10/16/07 4:27:26 AM#54

Originally posted by sookster54

The pre-cu "content" seemed to have been based heavily on the Star Wars EU, a friend of mine read alot of the EU and noticed alot of similarities in SWG back then, such as the location of Nightsisters and Singing Mountain clan and why they fought each other, there was a reason for each type of mob being where they were in the game.

This is actually very true.  While the game was based before the events of ESB they had a whole lot of planets to populate ones that weren't really discussed in the movies.  There were a few real Star Wars nuts that I had met during my time in SWG and the majority of things in game were taken from the EU.  Teras Kasi anyone?  There are some 30 odd years worth of novels and the like that make up the EU and, as far as I know, all of it has been ok'd by Lucas or Lucasfilm.

However, it doesn't change the fact that the devs at SOE or the people at Lucas Arts (Smedley, Torres and their underlings to be specific) completely botched what should easily be the premier mmorpg.


  Obraik

Ewok

Joined: 5/02/05
Posts: 7303

10/16/07 5:23:43 AM#55
Originally posted by SioBabble

The unfortunate truth, in my view, is that SWG pre-CU relied on the skill system as its content.  There were a smattering of quests, some of them broken and ignore, there were dungeons scattered about the worlds that rarely had a story reason to be there, but could have had a story reason if only they'd taken time to get the story written.

One thing about WoW: nearly every last mob has a story reason for being where it is.  Not true with SWG.  Oh, finally, at long last with the Legacy quest, we got an explanation for the Rogue CorSecs, and their island.  But we still don't know a lot about a lot of POIs/Dungeons scattered about the worlds.  What's the story behind the Chunker Bunker on Talus?  I mean, we know why there is a crazy druid dungeon in Ashenvale in WoW; there's an actual story to it.  But the Chunker Bunker?  Your guess is as good as mine is!

The game was released before it was ready, not only from stability, game play, and polish issues, but from content issues.  It had the skill system in place, that became the predominant content.

Then the NGE came along and took that content away.

And SOE and LA wondered why they lost tens of thousands of subscribers when they took away the primary content of the game...the skill system that allowed you to create your own avatar based on your playstyle.

The content that was at the center of preNGE SWG (albeit remarkably limited by the level system of the CU) has not been restored by any stretch of the imagination.

The skill system being the main source of content pre-cu was the reason I was on the way to quitting just before RoTW was announced.  I had no interest in re-grinding my character over and over - I had the template I liked but I was quickly running out of things to do with it.   I was more into PvE then I was PvP back then.

  xacova

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/07
Posts: 199

LONG LIVE THE CABAL
paid member
The difference between fanbois and veteran is at least 250,000

10/16/07 5:30:07 AM#56

2 YEARS ALMOST and you could easily write what improvements have been made on the back of a ciggarette packet ! shamefull really.

However if you wanted note down all the removed content and professions you will need a notepad to get started. Yet some folks seem to think the re-introduction of old content is acceptable well it is'nt and should'nt be. The game is looking a joke attempting to look like its former(pre-cu/cu) self in its more glorious days by redoing old content taken away then saying look what we have done this chapter.

It just looks like there saying the nge is crap and it is but hey we have only wasted two years going sideways, so now we can go backwards it lke a really poor comedy.

oh! look there goes another community manager out the door or another dev vapourized they should just conceed and open a classic server swallow the big pill and yes it might need a big glass of water, but the conflict of the nge and pre-cu direction for the game  could stop. Those that want to play pre-cu or cu could do so.  Those that like the nge could do so!   its blatant that trying to make the nge with pre-cu/ cu content is not healthy for the game its allways half assed and mish mashy.

  Suvroc

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/07
Posts: 2405

10/16/07 7:25:49 AM#57

Originally posted by Obraik

The skill system being the main source of content pre-cu was the reason I was on the way to quitting just before RoTW was announced.  I had no interest in re-grinding my character over and over - I had the template I liked but I was quickly running out of things to do with it.   I was more into PvE then I was PvP back then.


I don't know if I would say it was the main source of content, but certainly it could be percieved that way to some. And that's not to say it wasn't necessarily a bad thing either, as it allowed you to adapt to different situations and roles.

Problem was, as I see it, that SOE didn't recognize that many players would have happily developed content for guilds/citizens if sufficient tools were given to guild leaders or poloticians. This would have relieved the devs limited resources to concentrate solely on addressing issues and making SWG better then it was.

  Kazara

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 1067

"Denial does not change reality."

10/16/07 8:34:02 AM#58

Originally posted by Suvroc

 

Originally posted by Obraik

The skill system being the main source of content pre-cu was the reason I was on the way to quitting just before RoTW was announced.  I had no interest in re-grinding my character over and over - I had the template I liked but I was quickly running out of things to do with it.   I was more into PvE then I was PvP back then.


I don't know if I would say it was the main source of content, but certainly it could be percieved that way to some. And that's not to say it wasn't necessarily a bad thing either, as it allowed you to adapt to different situations and roles.

 

Problem was, as I see it, that SOE didn't recognize that many players would have happily developed content for guilds/citizens if sufficient tools were given to guild leaders or poloticians. This would have relieved the devs limited resources to concentrate solely on addressing issues and making SWG better then it was.

Also, the time and resources that $OE used developing unwanted revamps would have gone a long way in producing content and/or assist in creating player made content. This is not even mentioning the other instances already added, mini revamps such as chef, or the expansions that still would have been developed over the course of four years. The multiprofession skill based play was great, but also the player economy and crafting was complex enough that it kept many players challenged and busy.That represents yet another segment of the old playerbase that $OE threw away.

The few that say the game is great now does not compare to the over 200k explayers that feel differently, not to mention the majority of current players that still prefer pre-CU.

  Relluc

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 32

10/16/07 8:44:17 AM#59

To me, it seems like it's a VERY simple fix to the "NGE haters"/"NGE lovers" debate.  Open up at least just ONE Pre-CU server....JUST ONE!!!  Then you could see how quickly that servers population increased compared to the NGE serverS, yes, I intentionally cap'd the last S on that to show emphaticness (is that a real word?) on the plural NGE servers.

Then if the NGE servers stayed FAR more populated than the Pre-CU server, there could not possibly be anymore discussion/hate-fest from EITHER party, and vice versa.  I guess SOE's just afraid of being shown (dramatically) that they were wrong in making the changes that no one wanted.

Anyone have any comments? Thoughts to this? NOT flames, but actually something to say, good OR bad about this idea?  Shame SOE devs don't surf here to see this, maybe a current player could copy/paste this into the Devs board or something.

  Kazara

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/06
Posts: 1067

"Denial does not change reality."

10/16/07 8:55:16 AM#60

Originally posted by Relluc

To me, it seems like it's a VERY simple fix to the "NGE haters"/"NGE lovers" debate.  Open up at least just ONE Pre-CU server....JUST ONE!!!  Then you could see how quickly that servers population increased compared to the NGE serverS, yes, I intentionally cap'd the last S on that to show emphaticness (is that a real word?) on the plural NGE servers.

Then if the NGE servers stayed FAR more populated than the Pre-CU server, there could not possibly be anymore discussion/hate-fest from EITHER party, and vice versa.  I guess SOE's just afraid of being shown (dramatically) that they were wrong in making the changes that no one wanted.

Anyone have any comments? Thoughts to this? NOT flames, but actually something to say, good OR bad about this idea?  Shame SOE devs don't surf here to see this, maybe a current player could copy/paste this into the Devs board or something.

One big reason I believe $OE does not bring on a classic server(s) is because they are afraid the NGE version of SWG would instantly collapse, confirming whaty most of us already know.

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