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G&H is officially canceled as if this week of October 9 2007. This follows a 5 year development, where the game was labled by PE as a world-class AAA title. And the last year saw over 80 layoffs, with PE's explanation that G&H was content complete, and just needed polishing. PE was pushing G&H as a AAA title until the very last day. However, beta reviews revealed a MMORPG that was buggy, incomplete, uninspired, and lacking in innovation and fun. Perpetual Entertainment was shown to be incorrect in describing G&H as both a AAA world-class title, and in describing the layoffs as a result of content completion. Obviously PE was struggling financially, as it is known now that new investors have pushed PE to drop G&H and focus on STO. I personally am ready to see PE drop STO. Nothing personal against the developers. Between the delays, the community unhappiness, the DOA of G&H, PE's corporate speak and misleading, their mishandling and disdain for the community, and their lack of interesting ideas for STO leave me to conclude STO in their hands will fail or come out as a generic and dull MMORPG.
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Brenelael
 Elite Member
Joined: 10/19/06
Pointing out the Obvious to the Oblivious since 2006 |
10/10/07 1:39:22 PM#2
I voted "same as before" which is deceiving considering I haven't been very optimistic since no PSIs were announced.
Bren while(horse==dead) |
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10/10/07 1:46:22 PM#3
STO is just another shameless attempt to get people to buy a garbage game based on name recognition. It hasn't worked for anyone yet, and it won't as long as these game studios turn out crap products. |
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10/10/07 1:54:39 PM#4
I remember reading that Eric Heimburg ,former producer of Asheron's Call 2 (CITAN), had left Turbine to work on this project. If that is the case,my expectations are lowered!! |
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One thing that has been proved is that since PE was formed in 2002, they produced a broken and stale fantasy MMO that is a copy of WoW, bought the IP to Star Trek and began work on Star Trek Online, only to have the online community arise up in backlash against the signs that STO will be a stale MMO that is a copy of WoW. The company has more people demanding PE sell back its IP than keep it! Yet, now the fourth day of the week and PE is silent about STO, except for Daron's paragraph summary. WARNING: STAY AWAY FROM STO-NET. You will be censored if you stray from the party line, and many of the few remaining posters are hard-core PE supporters will not let anything or anybody cloud their rosy image of STO and PE. Is it any wonder PE is taking such great effort to direct people to that site. If you go to startrekonline.com you will see that PE directs readers to STO-NET to join a forum on the news section. Hmmm....I think things are gonna get ugly for PE fast. This online community is a great force of truth and beauty and we will not let PE get away with raping Star Trek Online.
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10/11/07 11:04:17 AM#6
Originally posted by TheOracle1That is so not true. There are quite some critical statements regarding STO and PE. You can post there whatever you want as long as you substantiate your posts and not just troll around. And now please dont quote me those many many many examples of people who got censored and their posts being deleted. The mods most likely had their reasons. (see above, trolling, or of topic what ever) And why does PE assist STO.net and made it the first preffered fansite? Because it is a fansite! And it is the biggest fansite! So where is the problem? A Fansite project is no big deal and very common. And this community is no "great force of truth and beauty" and will have to watch the PE devil getting away while "raping" STO....lol. What bad things has PE done so far to STO? Ah yeah, none. blablabla its getting a WoW clone! Really? Why? People, STOP judgeing things you have no idea about. When STO progresses and gets in Beta, and if it then seems to get a bad game, based on real FACTS and Knowlegde about the game, a WoW Clone or like, THEN you can complain. And then i for instance will do so too. But not now. Because there are no reasonable hints or evidence that STO will be a crappy game, or will not please the ST Fans so far. |
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10/11/07 11:13:06 AM#7
I think people are jumping the gun on STO and need to stop acting like children and give it time. One game failure does not mean that the whole company sucks. Want an example? SWG and EQ2. EQ2 is probably one of the top games out there at the moment, despite the massive bomb of SWG and people keep trying to talk about how horrible SOE is because of SWG despite never having played EQ2. Its like judging a car company on a single type of car that they make without really knowing anything about any of their other cars, must less having driven any of them. Or like judging a toy company based on the recall of a single toy they make without thinking about any of the millions of others that came off the shelves in perfect condition. People need to grow up. Give them time. Find out about the game. Then we'll see. My website is closed temporarily. Hopefully it will only be a short delay. |
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Originally posted by DixonHillSo you don't mind if people get shafted again like with GandH? You rather wait 2 or 3 years until the STO beta before finding out STO would be crap? Come on, we have to create mass awareness so PE will not pull a stunt like that again. These boards is a GREAT DEMOCRATIC SWELL OF POWER TO THE GAMER! And how is STO like WoW? Let me count the ways. 1) "100s" of upgrades, 1000s of items, weapons and armor and customs stuff to level up and upgrade to 2) combat system based on skill. Meaning combat to get more points. 3) combat to get the upgrades and armor and items 4) Mounts , ships in space as mounts. 5) grouping ships together as a combat option 5) 3rd person view 6) essentially solo gameplay, with heavy on the combat STO is a cookie-cutter MMORPG, unless they are changing it under the new bosses. They practically admitted that.
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10/11/07 11:25:45 AM#9
Originally posted by Moirae No, only a company that sucks could ruin 1 of the greatest IP ever called STAR WARS. So yes, SOE sucks and so do their games. I wont say anything about EQ2 b/c i never really tried it, but i tried all of the others and every single one of them sucked.
This is just my opinion.
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10/11/07 11:40:33 AM#10
Originally posted by TheOracle1 good lord, this made me laugh..Democratic my hinder...forums are a place for zealots to continually rant while the rest of the world gets on with things. If you had near the power you think you did PE would already have closed their doors and STO would be in someone else's hands has a group-only social interiors wank-fest. Seriously..your deluded. |
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10/11/07 11:42:31 AM#11
Originally posted by MoiraeProblem with your comparisons here is SOE already had other games in the market before it brought SWG EQ2, and SWG wasn't a complete failure until they decided to tinker with it multiple times, it's still just about the only game in the SOE lineup that has gone through major gameplay changes. EQ2 did as well, but that was back when it was first released in a sad state. SWG's problems were shared anyways, it was a shared development with Lucas Arts afterall, think you can guess who made the majority of calls on the changes in that relationship. Again with the cars comparison you mention judging on one type of car without knowing their other cars. Does PE have other games out there? No they don't, so people can only judge them on their first project. They couldn't manage to finish a game already in beta and close to release, whether that's management of developers fault we'll probably never know, but I don't see why people shouldn't question whether or not STO is in good hands at this point.
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10/11/07 11:49:30 AM#12
Originally posted by Moirae
Looking at the forums, it is very obvious that it is those living in a state of denial and defending PE, that are the ones that are having the major melt-down and behaving childishly. This was not a car in a line of cars. This was a project that they worked on for 5 years. The companies management has shown that it is incompetent, has poor project management, strategic and financial planning skills and failed to demonstrate the creative expertise required to launch a AAA MMO. I know, because I actually test drove their "car" (G&H). You are the one that needs to do some growing up. You need to learn that you aren't always going to get everyone to agree with your point of view.
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Your post was a false and smearing attack on me. 1) The boards are democratic, people can be heard. Not me, or you, but EVERYONE. TOGETHER. A wave of optimism and happiness or a wave of anger, disapointment, and dread. 2) I never called for STO to be group-only. Larger player ships should have basically full interiors. Smaller ships can be solo operated. Basiclly, the option to go solo or group. PE DID state they wanted two seperate servers, one for PvP intensive play, and the other for RP wankfest. 3) STO is not becoming a WoW clone? Prove otherwise. 4) PE glossed up GandH a lot too. They said the game was amazing and cool and innovative. It turns out that PE saw the bottom line and dumped it, right before release time. 5) I am deluded? I see through BS. And I see a lot of BS about STO right now, and my anger is building and I would like PE to see the IP and make some generic sci-fi MMO. The only thing I see wrong is PE relying on the IP to make money, not the strength of their game. You think all the tools and software and methods used for GandH suddenly will be dropped and STO will be completely worked from the ground up? I don't think 2 years would be enough to accomplish. Even with a newer engine, look for STO to play similar to GandH. |
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10/11/07 11:56:14 AM#14
We all just need to accept that it is the Star Trek curse and that if anything many people arent even sure if this game is going to make it and alot of what PE has stated in interviews from Daron who should be called the propaganda minister of the PE as he has poor additude and i have to wonder if he has an education ubove 3rd grade. As many have already stated i think it might be best for the license to be given back and allow another company that has experience in building MMO's. Though the Star Trek license has been so tainted with one bad game after another and alot of people that wants to see STO break from that including myself see it do well. Though with the amount of problems that we have seen out of PE doesnt make myself or anyone else any better about STO. Ill be surprised if PE even survives the end of the year if not the end of the month. I think that PE set there heights high, which i dont have a problem with though i dont think they had the people that new what they were doing. Instead they had brought together a bunch of people that perhaps didn't have any business there if at all. Ive found out though certain people that PE is struggling and spending money like it is water. As for the STO.net community they dont represent the larger ST community, those are nothing more than PE Yes men! Those guys are delusional and are unrealistic and it would seem from the looks of it are in a major meltdown. Iam all for seeing STO in another companies hands, i think that PE hasn't itself in the best like though its evident of poor additude towards the MMO community in general and that is evident from there interviews. |
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10/11/07 12:13:36 PM#15
Originally posted by Keogh
My website is closed temporarily. Hopefully it will only be a short delay. |
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PE greatest strength is rosy marketing statements! You say PE Yes! Men? Like this. Daron: We've been really busy integrating new team members over the last few days and I appreciate the support we've gotten from so many of you. While STO is excited to get so many really talented and needed new team members, I'm sure everyone can imagine how difficult for those who abandoned years of work. This is a very bold move by Perpetual, and if they know what they're doing, it fares well for all of us.-mattastic Thank you, Daron, for responding and assauging our fears. I can only imagine how bittersweet is must be right now, to get the new influx of help, but at such a tragic cost. - writerguy I can honestly say that Over the past few years PE and its developers have not mislead this community in their intention and overarching goals for the game.-Irdnova Thanks Daron for the update and once again I hope all is well for you and PE .We would not be here if it where not for your efforts and all the hard work that everyone at PE does.- Irdnova
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Dracus
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/14/04
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." |
10/11/07 12:26:11 PM#17
Gods and Heroes was PE's first release and flagship. It failed, badly, enough to require PE to gain additional funding. Now the senior managers at PE has less control (as more control goes to investors). Yes lessons will be learned and experienced gained, but Gods and Heroes is the indicator of how STO will turn out in terms of graphics, code and game play.I know, because I actually test drove their "car" (G&H). And that is why... Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness. |
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10/11/07 12:47:02 PM#18
Uhm...i dont believe it. So you don't mind if people get shafted again like with GandH? You rather wait 2 or 3 years until the STO beta before finding out STO would be crap? Of course! Because only then we will have the proper knowlegde and facts about STO to say so! Ok, maybe even earlier, when they reveal more and real infos, videos and pics, but, not now! Come on, we have to create mass awareness so PE will not pull a stunt like that again. These boards is a GREAT DEMOCRATIC SWELL OF POWER TO THE GAMER! If you say so, i disagree. But this is a non discussable subject i guess ;) And how is STO like WoW? Let me count the ways. 1) "100s" of upgrades, 1000s of items, weapons and armor and customs stuff to level up and upgrade to Yes, most likely. Ok, thats like WoW lol, but also like in almost every MMO. And..whats bad about it? 2) combat system based on skill. Meaning combat to get more points. You have no idea how the skillsystem will actually work. 3) combat to get the upgrades and armor and items See above, and maybe not only through combat? Again, you cant say right now. 4) Mounts , ships in space as mounts. I bet you are reffering to Daron´s Mount Statement. But, he most likely meant the personal ships, and again...only time will tell. But no, you will ONLY be able to travel faster with ships in STO. Mounts=Ships, eh? o_O 5) grouping ships together as a combat option Yes, so what? 5) 3rd person view Oh no!!! -.- But perhaps you will be able to switch to First person view? I dont know. 6) essentially solo gameplay, with heavy on the combat Really? How do you know? Played STO? Secret talk with Daron? YOU CANT KNOW BY NOW. STO is a cookie-cutter MMORPG, unless they are changing it under the new bosses. They practically admitted that. When and where did they "practically" admitted that? Some of your arguements (STO= WoW clone) are like i´d say, "STO will be like WoW because you steer your char with mouse and keyboard!" Or, "It´ll be like WoW because its also an MMO!" And some of your arguements have not the slightest basement. Believe me, i WILL complain and criticise( because the game will not be "perfect" of course) wohoho....because i want this game to succeed. But in a constructive and productive way. But right now....hell, there is nothing to complain about, because we know nothing of how the game will be.
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10/11/07 12:50:00 PM#19
go ahead and assume it's directed personally at you Oracle..at the end of the day it doesn't change my opinion of your wildly inaccurate view of the power of these forums and the rhetoric that spews forth from it like vomit. As I said earlier, if these forums were anywhere near as powerful as you like to think they are:
1.Sony would no longer be in any business including cleaning poop off the streets 2. PE would be burned to the ground by angry mobs and the STO license would be given to Bioware 3. Bioware would own 95% of all the games played 4. Everyone would PvP and like it 5. Ship Interiors would be the only thing in the STO game.
and so on. Again, take the above list as personally directed at you regardless of the logic behind those feelings. I want to spend my time posting to focus solely on insulting you and not a community of zealots in general.
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Dracus
Novice Member
Joined: 7/14/04
"Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars." |
10/11/07 2:59:09 PM#20
Originally posted by maxstoneActually there are a number of people who believe that the user base of such forums are the downfall to game titles. Often these people are the Apologists suggesting that the gamers are the fault of failed games. Twisted belief, but true. And that is why... Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness. |
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