Facts:

Some people have played Vanguard and liked it.

Some people still play Vanguard, liking it.

Some people have played Vanguard and didn't like it.

Some people have not played Vanguard and didn't like it.

Some people have played Vanguard, didn't like it, and felt the need to express that opinion through various means.

Opinions:

"I like Vanguard, because of it's immersive and open nature. The level of freedom offered is, in my opinion, one of the greatest ever seen and I can't wait to get home from work to play more."

"I don't like Vanguard, because it has a number of bugs that have not yet been resolved, despite being in the game for a while now. I dislike the nature of the graphics and/or the resources taken from my system to display what I feel is inadequate."

Miscellaneous (Or: Nonsense conclusions by intellectually challenged youths given a platform and anonymity)

"I don't like Vanguard, therefor Vanguard is dead. Everyone who likes it must stop playing and let it die."

"Vanguard runs bad on my system and I don't like the animations, therefor you all suck for liking the game."

The moral? There is fact, and there is opinion. There is also the third category, and that is jumping to baseless conclusions based on your own narrow-minded little point of view, which you then decide to post in a place where people come who actually play the game and like it.If you find a different game better, GO AWAY, go to the forum of the game you like and talk about that. I don't go over to the Ryzom forum and tell them how much I hated the gaming experience they've given me EITHER.

It's very simple: People like it, or people don't like it. Choose a side, and smile. You've just formed an opinion. Leave it at that.

File this under whichever you wish, but I think it's important to get as much information as possible when making a decision. People come to this forum to get "facts, opinions, and misc" information about a game they may be considering buying/subbing. I also believe it is important that they get both sides of the story, Although it seems you wish to have a place set aside for only "positive" experiences. I hate to break it to you, but there is rarely a topic that everyone finds positive.

I played VG for nearly 10 months and had my share of fun at the game. VG was a masterpiece in theory. Unfortunately, it was a nightmare in execution. I am what some would have called a "vanboi" a month ago, but at some point you have to see that it's all smoke and mirrors and empty promises:

*Stability that was promised and never showed up

*Bug fixes that come at a snails pace

*Class balance that has been an issue since pre-release

*Lack of end-game content

*GM presence that is non-existent

*Gold seller spam every 15 minutes

*Lack of control measures for CoC violations (hacks, bots, exploits)

I spent the better part of 3 months overlooking these FACTS as i waited for SOE to fix the game i had waited for since i quit EQ, and it just never happened. In an effort to help someone else make an educated decision whether to buy this game or not, I think this is relevant information as well as all the reasons you might want to list as pros. I could list some pros myself, but I'm sorry to say that I feel more than a little ripped off at the moment.

I stood by SOE after they assumed control and patiently waited as they billed my account for this heap that i had so much faith in. I have since lost that faith and I will not return until the posts on this forum and others are overwhelmingly positive feedback. My estimation is that will be at least one year from now.

Of all the threads i have read about this game, may i just say that this has been the only one that has not made me laugh! Two mature posts that both made good points and would go a long way to helping people either form thier own opinion or decide whether or not to give it a go.

It's nice to get a honest mature opinion from a former Vanboi too. you touched a spot in me with that post and although i still admit i am a fan..a few things you said rang true there.

Two interesting posts that i feel were actualy worth reading and maybe you might even start a trend and we may see more mature posts apear. well done.

Originally posted by DailyBuzz

File this under whichever you wish, but I think it's important to get as much information as possible when making a decision. People come to this forum to get "facts, opinions, and misc" information about a game they may be considering buying/subbing. I also believe it is important that they get both sides of the story, Although it seems you wish to have a place set aside for only "positive" experiences. I hate to break it to you, but there is rarely a topic that everyone finds positive.

I played VG for nearly 10 months and had my share of fun at the game. VG was a masterpiece in theory. Unfortunately, it was a nightmare in execution. I am what some would have called a "vanboi" a month ago, but at some point you have to see that it's all smoke and mirrors and empty promises:

*Stability that was promised and never showed up

*Bug fixes that come at a snails pace

*Class balance that has been an issue since pre-release

*Lack of end-game content

*GM presence that is non-existent

*Gold seller spam every 15 minutes

*Lack of control measures for CoC violations (hacks, bots, exploits)

I spent the better part of 3 months overlooking these FACTS as i waited for SOE to fix the game i had waited for since i quit EQ, and it just never happened. In an effort to help someone else make an educated decision whether to buy this game or not, I think this is relevant information as well as all the reasons you might want to list as pros. I could list some pros myself, but I'm sorry to say that I feel more than a little ripped off at the moment.

I stood by SOE after they assumed control and patiently waited as they billed my account for this heap that i had so much faith in. I have since lost that faith and I will not return until the posts on this forum and others are overwhelmingly positive feedback. My estimation is that will be at least one year from now.

 

All the points you name are mostly accurate- They *are* getting fixed (including the stability), but slowly (slow being a relative term, but yes, many games get more updates quicker )

Part of the difference here though, is that I never "believed in the hype", if you will. Hell, I don't even know what was once promised, so I can play Vanguard for what it is now, not for what I once (with right) expected it to be.

I can completely understand the huge disappointment it must've been when you've been promised the world and got just France. But that shouldn't stop other people from visiting France, cause it's still a very nice country to go on vacation.....(That made a lot of sense in my head...)

The only real "facts" there are 

• The game was launched unfinished and massive performance / technical issues
• Sigil went insolvent and SOE acquired it
• Servers were merged from 12 (or whatever) to 4
• Vanguard was briefly on Xfires "top 10 most played MMOs" at launch and pops whithered to nothing within 6 months of launch.
• It got a sack full of bad reviews for all the trouble of 5 years of development and 30 million dollars of investors money.
• Lots of players have strong opinions about the game and what happened.
• The game is currently still incomplete and has many technical issues
• SOE is working on it and hasn't shut it down and commited to keep working on it until its finished...however long that might take, anyones guess is as good as mine.
• (this one isn't "fact" but it probably ended a few careers. I seriously doubt we will hear from Brad again...thank goodness)

Baseless conclusion

The game has no where to go but up at this point seeing as SOE has made the decission to keep it running and pops bottomed out a long time ago.

Why so hostile? Stop reading forums if they upset you so much, they don't mean jack - poop to gaming. There only a few hundred regualr posters here on this site at any one time, why the heck do you care what a handful of them have to say about this game? Thats all MMO posters do on forums is whine like mules. (myself included)

The real issue is the MMO community doesn't really feel like they have any stake or ownership of the games. The games are totally controlled by the companies unlike other game genres where the community can "mod" and change what they don't like and shape the games the way they want them.

MMO players are more of a passive audience waiting to be entertained by the devs next wave of kill task and raids. (which is pretty much all we get and it has frustrated the community pretty badly as they can't do anything about it)

People have opinions and are going to post them, you can't change that anymore then you can walk on the sun.  

i dont think it was brad mcquaid's fault why vg wasnt a huge success.. SOE wanted it released back in january and they werent taking no for an answer.. i was in beta 2 all the way up until release. I knew it wasnt ready, it needed a good 3-4 more months at least of testing but that was not granted.. Now SOE had to pretty much pick up the pieces because they invested alot of money and developers to the project,plus they were the ones who forced sigil to release the game so early.. In late december we were just starting to test PVP, then a month later the game goes live?? lol everyone knew it was to early but we all hoped within a few months things would start to look and play better. Unfortunately with every new patch came a new bug, unbalanced classes, poor performance,e tc.. 

Personally tho, the game had so much potential that most of the people let these things slide for about 3 months.. Then it just got to frustrating, especially when you get to level 40+ I quit back in May and I'm still hoping SOE can fix this game.. I'm waiting for update 3 and hopefully i'll be impressed enough to come back.. If not, then guess I'll have no choice but to return to EQ2 when Kunark comes out...

 

Why so hostile? Stop reading forums if they upset you so much, they don't mean jack - poop to gaming. There only a few hundred regualr posters here on this site at any one time, why the heck do you care what a handful of them have to say about this game? Thats all MMO posters do on forums is whine like mules. (myself included)

 

That's actually some sound advice right there- but I do have to admit that I kind of enjoy going up in arms against the worst of them- the trolls, the concluders and the "assigned spokespersons" 

You make some good points. Which makes you kinda boring to reply to... Hm 

Originally posted by SilverPhenix

 

 

That's actually some sound advice right there- but I do have to admit that I kind of enjoy going up in arms against the worst of them- the trolls, the concluders and the "assigned spokespersons" 

You make some good points. Which makes you kinda boring to reply to... Hm 

Well...I don't know whether to say thanks or plugger off lol.......

Next time I will not make such good points and advice then you won't find it so boring

Fact: The "some" people who played Vanguard liked it and still play are a minority.

Fact: Most people that played Vanguard, whether they bought it themselves or used a trial key from a purchased box, no longer play Vanguard. Cite whatever source of information you wish, be it interviews over at f13, Gilbert's posts of population declines over on the SOE boards, or just common sense and knowing what it means when 12 servers become 4.

Fact: Both players and non-players can use the MMORPG.com boards.

Fact: Only SOE customers can use the official Vanguard boards.

The Point: MMORPG.com will never be a safe haven for people with only positive messages about Vanguard. Based on the fact that most people who played Vanguard stopped playing for one reason or another, more than likely there isn't going to be a lot of positive comments about the game.

Glad to be a minority.

No. It's more like this:

MOST people, MOST that have played Vanguard have NOT liked it.  Many, many reasons why they've not liked it. Way too many to mention.

SOME people, FEW have played Vanguard and liked it.  Most of these few still play it just like SWG, another dead game which SOE continues to keep afloat and which also has dead servers much like VG. Yet, a handful continue to play it.

We all know about SOE"s stable of dead games which amazingly they still keep going. Only because it's a large company. Had it been a small to medium company running either of these games, they would of pulled the plug long ago.

thanks for posting the obvious

I can understand how some people still find fun in the game, and to a person just starting out now it may be a completely different experience than someone that was there from launch. The problem I have with VG is in each patch they list bug fixes that simply aren't fixed, content release that is not remotely refined, and total ignorance of what the community asks for.

The first hint that the team of monkeys they had working on this was inadequate was when the gold dupe hit (remember the one that totally borked the economy?) and it still isn't fixed?! SOE has simply went to a "no server restart" policy to try and circumvent it?!

In retrospect, I believe that the game may not be moving forward, but in fact, may be moving backward. I bought this game on the promise of what it was to become, whole-heartedly knowing that it was not yet what was described on the box. Eight months into release and it's still not even close to that promise.

Look, it's really not about the money, although that does add insult to injury. I devoted my time and effort into VG and bonds with friends (some still active and some not) on pure faith that the "early issues" would be resolved. I developed my characters and, as I've said, had my share of fun. However, just as a drunk must have a "moment of clarity" I had to get brutally honest with myself and ask "will SOE ever get this game off the ground"?

The VG community has turned into a support group. A place where it's player base can go to feel OK about handing this crack team their money to misappropriate it. If you play the game and enjoy it, more power to ya. If you are leveling yet another alt while patiently waiting for fixes, stability, content, and balance, then you might want to try rubbing that bottle again, the genie might just appear this time.

BTW I do like France, been there twice. If however it were in a state of chaos with no end in sight, I would try to save people the ticket fair.

Originally posted by sepher

Fact: The "some" people who played Vanguard liked it and still play are a minority.

Fact: Most people that played Vanguard, whether they bought it themselves or used a trial key from a purchased box, no longer play Vanguard. Cite whatever source of information you wish, be it interviews over at f13, Gilbert's posts of population declines over on the SOE boards, or just common sense and knowing what it means when 12 servers become 4.

Fact: Both players and non-players can use the MMORPG.com boards.

Fact: Only SOE customers can use the official Vanguard boards.

The Point: MMORPG.com will never be a safe haven for people with only positive messages about Vanguard. Based on the fact that most people who played Vanguard stopped playing for one reason or another, more than likely there isn't going to be a lot of positive comments about the game.

 

so what? your point? do you not understand the ones that play really dont care who doesnt play, just like the ones that dont play really shouldnt care who doe's! i really can't tell you how much i dont care if some dont like it all i want is for some of you to understand that i do. so please if you have a point make it! if not then give ti a rest.

oh ye is there something wrong with being in the minority area?

Originally posted by shukes33

 

Originally posted by sepher

Fact: The "some" people who played Vanguard liked it and still play are a minority.

Fact: Most people that played Vanguard, whether they bought it themselves or used a trial key from a purchased box, no longer play Vanguard. Cite whatever source of information you wish, be it interviews over at f13, Gilbert's posts of population declines over on the SOE boards, or just common sense and knowing what it means when 12 servers become 4.

Fact: Both players and non-players can use the MMORPG.com boards.

Fact: Only SOE customers can use the official Vanguard boards.

The Point: MMORPG.com will never be a safe haven for people with only positive messages about Vanguard. Based on the fact that most people who played Vanguard stopped playing for one reason or another, more than likely there isn't going to be a lot of positive comments about the game.

 

Fact: i am a minority!

 

so what? your point? do you not understand the ones that play really dont care who doesnt play, just like the ones that dont play really shouldnt care who doe's! i really can't tell you how much i dont care if some dont like it all i want is for some of you to understand that i do. so please if you have a point make it! if not then give ti a rest.

oh ye is there something wrong with being in the minority area?

I have said it before myself and even got banned for doing so because I got to a point of really being POed at all the people that comment here that do not play the game. They do not know what they are talking about. How could they. THEY DON'T PLAY THE GAME!!

If you don't play the game please just go away. you are waste our time opening threads that have ZERO meaning to us that do play the game. We all agree there are bugs. If you look past the bugs you see and excellent game and a game many of us enjoy playing.

Since you have shown you have no life by blasting something you have no knowledge of I suggest you go find a new hobby. Try bowling you get to throw a big ball at these pins that look lile people with little heads. You can get your furstration out on that much better.

You guys really cant let it rest? Have to start thread after thread defending your hobby like it actually matters... Serious insecurity issues.

Its a GAME... just play it! Stop trying to make a big issue of it. You only make these kind of posts to really try to start a new big flame war, and its pointless and make you look really lreally stupid.

Originally posted by Harafnir

You guys really cant let it rest? Have to start thread after thread defending your hobby like it actually matters... Serious insecurity issues.

Its a GAME... just play it! Stop trying to make a big issue of it. You only make these kind of posts to really try to start a new big flame war, and its pointless and make you look really lreally stupid.

Its a FORUM... just talk about it. Stop trying to make a big issue of it. You only make these kinds of replies to really try to derail the thread and mis-use the original purpose; to actually STOP flaming on the game itself and have people restrict themselves to facts and/or opinions which can then be discussed in a more healthy environment. It's pointless and makes you look really lreally stupid.

Originally posted by SilverPhenix

Facts:

Some people have played Vanguard and liked it.

Some people still play Vanguard, liking it.

Some people have played Vanguard and didn't like it.

Some people have not played Vanguard and didn't like it.

Some people have played Vanguard, didn't like it, and felt the need to express that opinion through various means.

 

Opinions:

"I like Vanguard, because of it's immersive and open nature. The level of freedom offered is, in my opinion, one of the greatest ever seen and I can't wait to get home from work to play more."

"I don't like Vanguard, because it has a number of bugs that have not yet been resolved, despite being in the game for a while now. I dislike the nature of the graphics and/or the resources taken from my system to display what I feel is inadequate."

 

Miscellaneous (Or: Nonsense conclusions by intellectually challenged youths given a platform and anonymity)

"I don't like Vanguard, therefor Vanguard is dead. Everyone who likes it must stop playing and let it die."

"Vanguard runs bad on my system and I don't like the animations, therefor you all suck for liking the game."

 

The moral? There is fact, and there is opinion. There is also the third category, and that is jumping to baseless conclusions based on your own narrow-minded little point of view, which you then decide to post in a place where people come who actually play the game and like it.If you find a different game better, GO AWAY, go to the forum of the game you like and talk about that. I don't go over to the Ryzom forum and tell them how much I hated the gaming experience they've given me EITHER.

It's very simple: People like it, or people don't like it. Choose a side, and smile. You've just formed an opinion. Leave it at that.

 

Nice thread, you forgot on one group here. Those who enjoy Vanguard and feel they need to express their opinions (usually while at work:p) and im a proud to be part of this group!

That's not the point friend!

The point is we shouldn't have to defend it. we should be left alone to discuss our hobbys without having people slam us and put us down because of it. What's more sad is the people who are doing it, dont you think that it should be ok to discuss the game? I have never opened a thread to defend my game, just replyed to people who are saying stupid comments like let it die...this game is the worst morg ever made, and things like that.

I really dont care if others dont like it! i just get bothered when people try to explain to me that i am wrong to play it. Fact is i am right to play it! i enjoy it so why shouldn't i? i am 34 years old and have a son the age of 11. he plays WoW and eq2. he loves them and i pay for his subs each month. i played them both myself and enjoyed them. now i enjoy VG more so i play it. why is that so bad? i really dont understand why thats a bad thing!

Btw that was not meant for the post above me you just posted before i had replied :) i was responding to the post about us looking stupid for deffending our hobby.

And your right! i am proud to play my game and enjoy it :) long live the minority haha!

Lets start a revolution!