Can someone explain me please what revolutionary PVP system will this game brings. From what I read so far it sounds like an ordinary zones-leveling game with a lot of PVP in it, but it doesnt change the fact that you have 1-10lvl zone then 11-20.. each zone filled up with pve/pvp quests, two sides opposite to each other and a few checkpoints that you can conquer which will bring some points to your fixed faction based on your race...

If the combat stays 1-2-3/delay (sorry you're out of range, you can't swing) and the pvp is trivial from the features I read, this will be far from what DaoC offered.

First I thought it will be more into sandbox style pvp where you could become for example a bandit robbing every traveller on the road, build up your own mercenary guild, building castles, hiring mercs to defend your land or even plundering towns (player towns or NPC towns), but from the features it will be the same static world. I know Warhammer world, and I know there are pretty fixed factions that fights infinite wars, but still there is some space to make the pvping a bit more flexible. Don't tell me there are no human bandits robbing other human transpassers or whatever.

Noone has ever claimed the PvP to be revolutionary.

What is your argument?

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Noone has ever claimed the PvP to be revolutionary.

 

What is your argument?

Wait, the information right on official website saying its new next generation PVP system is not expected to be revolutionary? 

Originally posted by Thillian

Can someone explain me please what revolutionary PVP system will this game brings. From what I read so far it sounds like an ordinary zones-leveling game with a lot of PVP in it, but it doesnt change the fact that you have 1-10lvl zone then 11-20.. each zone filled up with pve/pvp quests, two sides opposite to each other and a few checkpoints that you can conquer which will bring some points to your fixed faction based on your race...

If the combat stays 1-2-3/delay (sorry you're out of range, you can't swing) and the pvp is trivial from the features I read, this will be far from what DaoC offered.

First I thought it will be more into sandbox style pvp where you could become for example a bandit robbing every traveller on the road, build up your own mercenary guild, building castles, hiring mercs to defend your land or even plundering towns (player towns or NPC towns), but from the features it will be the same static world. I know Warhammer world, and I know there are pretty fixed factions that fights infinite wars, but still there is some space to make the pvping a bit more flexible. Don't tell me there are no human bandits robbing other human transpassers or whatever.

Noone has ever done this particular part of RvR where it's scaled in 1-1 2-2 3-3 4-4 win etc, (watch some videos to find out more about the game)

It's revolutionary because no other game has tried to copy WoW so closely.

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Noone has ever claimed the PvP to be revolutionary.

 

What is your argument?

Wait, the information right on official website saying its new next generation PVP system is not expected to be revolutionary? 

"WAR features next generation Realm vs. Realm"

I can't spot the word "revolutionary" in there... could you help me?

Actually, for its intended crowd, it is pretty revolutionary. Not exactly blowing anyones socks off, but its pretty much DAOC 2.0.

Sounds like what you would prefer is more along the lines of AOC, or Darkfall (don't hold your breath on that one.)

Good luck to ya.

D.

Originally posted by SBE1

It's revolutionary because no other game has tried to copy WoW so closely.

Well anyway I'm still missing the next gen pvp system explanation. Just that there will be some scoring and checkpoint conquering is not revolutionary if the combat principles and pvp limits remains the same.

Yes Darkfall features sounds much more like new gen pvp, but who knows if that will be ever released. AoC on the other hand, doesnt sound very pvp-sandbox style game. Still holds a lot of limits in what you can do and what you cannot.

Originally posted by SBE1

It's revolutionary because no other game has tried to copy WoW so closely.

Wheres Wow's PVP? oh, there isn't any.. nvm.

Originally posted by ImixZinz

 

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Noone has ever claimed the PvP to be revolutionary.

 

What is your argument?

Wait, the information right on official website saying its new next generation PVP system is not expected to be revolutionary? 

 

"WAR features next generation Realm vs. Realm"

 

I can't spot the word "revolutionary" in there... could you help me?

Ah and 2nd point out I can't see the word 'PVP' in there I can see 'RVR' tho...  'RVR' isn't the 'PVP' people assume of, it's RVR, so techically the about is right, it will feature the 'next gen' of RVR cuz only DAoC has 'RVR' (look towards the whole copyrighting RVR thingy)

Originally posted by ImixZinz

 

Originally posted by Thillian

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Noone has ever claimed the PvP to be revolutionary.

 

What is your argument?

Wait, the information right on official website saying its new next generation PVP system is not expected to be revolutionary? 

 

"WAR features next generation Realm vs. Realm"

 

I can't spot the word "revolutionary" in there... could you help me?

Discussion with you is rather pointless but ill try one more time. When something is gonna be next gen it must be revolutionary. If you just use that was here already its not considered next gen but just polishing old features. Lotro is not next gen whereas AC2 was first 2nd gen mmorpg. If warhammer has 3rd gen PVP system, it must be something new not the same that was used in DaoC for instance.

Actually, I highly doubt that you will see games coming out with tremendous leaps and bounds anymore.

MMO's becoming main stream pretty much tanked that. It takes mega big money to make an MMO these days, so all anyone is gonna do is make a game basically like whats already out, with a few new features.

The problem with totally revolutionary features...for one..how do you totally make something revolutionary? At some point its going to have to be similar to whats already out there. Killing a players toon is killing a players toon is killing a players toon. What are you really gonna change? The setting? The looting rules? the rules of engagement? Full body loot FFA isn't revolutionary, its a step backwards 10 years..that makes it retro.

Also..what if a company is TOO revolutionary and no one likes it? then they are out like, 70 mil. Who wants to chance that? you got that kinda cash to toss in the fire? (if so, I'll take it off yer hands and sell you some waterfront property in the Sahara.)

Those things combined...you're probably not going to see something completely different from a company, it will change in small baby steps, not leaps and bounds.

Unless someone like the guy that owns Virgin decides to make games...he's certifiably insane and will try anything once, heh.

D.

Originally posted by daelnor

Actually, I highly doubt that you will see games coming out with tremendous leaps and bounds anymore.

MMO's becoming main stream pretty much tanked that. It takes mega big money to make an MMO these days, so all anyone is gonna do is make a game basically like whats already out, with a few new features.

The problem with totally revolutionary features...for one..how do you totally make something revolutionary? At some point its going to have to be similar to whats already out there. Killing a players toon is killing a players toon is killing a players toon. What are you really gonna change? The setting? The looting rules? the rules of engagement? Full body loot FFA isn't revolutionary, its a step backwards 10 years..that makes it retro.

Also..what if a company is TOO revolutionary and no one likes it? then they are out like, 70 mil. Who wants to chance that? you got that kinda cash to toss in the fire? (if so, I'll take it off yer hands and sell you some waterfront property in the Sahara.)

Those things combined...you're probably not going to see something completely different from a company, it will change in small baby steps, not leaps and bounds.

Unless someone like the guy that owns Virgin decides to make games...he's certifiably insane and will try anything once, heh.

D.

Yes its risky business to come with new ideas. But only new ideas move the genre forwards. If they claim they will have next gen RvR/PvP then I expect there will be something new or some old concept heavily improved.

Imagine the example I gave before with the bandits. It can be improved by having wanted posters in the towns with a reward for the bandit heads. Being able to be put in jail (yes 10 minutes in jail and paying off all the gold for doing something against the laws) Yes it will be much harder to script and do it bugless, and balance it out and everything. But this I would call revolutionary or next-gen. Giving players different possible enjoyable activities other then farming something for better loot or some PVP realm points. (which will probably end up as a better loot anyway) If this game is able to get so much hype just for reusing DaoC RvR in a warhammer world, we will have to wait for 3rd gen MMORPG another couple of years.

Originally posted by SBE1

It's revolutionary because no other game has tried to copy WoW so closely.

Please just crawl back into your little troll-hole again.

To the OP: Next gen doesn't have to mean "Revolutionary". Alltho one might hope that that is the case, it might just be a vamped up feature used before. As in WAR they've used the RvR (Realm vs Realm) from DAoC and vamped it up a bit.

Next gen? Might be. Revolutionary? Nah.

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Originally posted by Thillian

Yes its risky business to come with new ideas. But only new ideas move the genre forwards. If they claim they will have next gen RvR/PvP then I expect there will be something new or some old concept heavily improved.
Imagine the example I gave before with the bandits. It can be improved by having wanted posters in the towns with a reward for the bandit heads. Being able to be put in jail (yes 10 minutes in jail and paying off all the gold for doing something against the laws) Yes it will be much harder to script and do it bugless, and balance it out and everything. But this I would call revolutionary or next-gen. Giving players different possible enjoyable activities other then farming something for better loot or some PVP realm points. (which will probably end up as a better loot anyway) If this game is able to get so much hype just for reusing DaoC RvR in a warhammer world, we will have to wait for 3rd gen MMORPG another couple of years.
 

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They took the core of DAOC rvr and revamped it, added some things, put systems in place to keep losers from killing noobs all day. Granted the battle ground things are like a combo of DAOC and WoW battle grounds, I'm not all that impressed with that. They did implement, however:
-The big city seige thing at the endgame
-The public quest system, that sounded kind of cool

er..they probably added some other stuff, but I'm not really a fanboi, I just like to follow games that are coming out. (Though I might play this one, just because mythic has a good track record with me.)

Now, people goin PK and having bounties, free for all pvp etc etc, while not hard wired into the game mechanics..its all been done before, on any game with any server where you have ffa pvp, there are pk's, anti pk's...and those in between. So...that really wouldn't be revolutionary at all, it would be Retro, like I said before. (nothin wrong with it..but its not new.)

The problem with pvp...(and I love pvp) Its like bein a dungeon master. You can set up all the rules you want, put all the false coded restrictions on things you want, and people will do the exact opposite of what you want them too.

PVP is coming up in the MMO world, but it will be a long time before its main stream enough to design an actual good game around FFA pvp stuff. Honestly..FFA is ridiculous unless its a game like shadowbane where you can level up in a day or two, and replace money easy..but then there is no real pve draw, and you lose at least half of your poetential money base.

D.

Well, I guess the answer to your question is that it isn't revolutionary.

It certainly isn't going to work the way you want PVP to work.

Personally I am not sure why next gen means revolutionary, my children aren't particularly revolutionary, in fact they are a lot like me.

What will RVR offer?

We for me the best bit is the fact that PVE and RVR occur on the same map (exluding instanced scenarios that is). I love the idea of large scale invasions and the objective based battles. With random skirmishes thrown in, what more could you ask for.

I have never really been a big fan of instanced RVR, but I am willing to try the scenario system out and see it I like the way it works.

In general, I am hoping that Mythic have learnt a lot from their experience with DAOC and will be in a good position to deal with the problems that arise in a PVP type game, such as balance and the such.

For me I would prefer a solid game, that is a heap of  fun and reasonably fair to a game that is revolutionary. Revolutionary does not equal better, just different.

There will always need to be people on the fringe of the main stream developing new things, but I think it is a mistake to look for such new things in big buget games. WAR is  a big budget game, they won't be taking to many risks.

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Originally posted by Javaira
Well, I guess the answer to your question is that it isn't revolutionary.
It certainly isn't going to work the way you want PVP to work.
Personally I am not sure why next gen means revolutionary, my children aren't particularly revolutionary, in fact they are a lot like me.
What will RVR offer?
We for me the best bit is the fact that PVE and RVR occur on the same map (exlucing instanced scenarios that is). I love the idea of large scale invasions and the objective based battles. With random skirmishes thrown in, what more could you ask for.
I have never really been a big fan of instanced RVR, but I am willing to try to scenario system out and see it I like the way it works.
In general I am hoping that Mythic learnt a lot from their experience with DAOC and will be in a good position to deal with the problems that arise in a PVP type game, such as balance and the such.
For me I would prefer a solid game, that is a heap of  fun and reasonably fair to a game that is revolutionary. Revolutionary does not equal better, just different.
There will always need to be people on the fringe of the main stream developing new things, but I think it is a mistake to look for such new things in big buget games. WAR is  a big budget game, they won't be taking to many risks.

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^^^^
What they said.

D.

The game comes with a FREE body kit, allowing you to actually feel pain if your hit, heat if burnt you know that kind of thing... its amazing. no seriously WAR is a a game played on  a PC just like any other, its not gona be somthing never seen before seems like you have the idea it will be, no the difference will be the RvR, the way everything is linked hopefully removing the 'static' feeling from the world.  Before you start, you can't pick the tiles off house roof's and throw them at people it is still a game, games have there limits.

I think the key with WAR is not so much that it looks revolutionary, but that it looks FUN. Remember when games used to be fun? Yeah, me either. It's been a long time. Mythic is modelling WAR's PvP on an already established RvR system that was revolutionary when they created it several years ago, and adding a colorful, exciting IP rich with lore on top of that. Honestly, an engaging game with a decent community is all I ask for, and what I've read about WAR so far seems like it may be headed in that direction. The sheer fact that Mythic isn't using the tired old PvE "level to max, raid, grind for gear model" ensures that WAR'll breath a breath of fresh air into the MMORPG community.

Next generation Realm vs. Realm sounds pretty accurate to me.

DAoC was the first generation RvR game which Mythic developed and with the coming of WAR they are taking it to the next incarnation or next generation of RvR.

Both "Realm vs. Realm" and (now) "Public Quests" are trademarks of EA Mythic.

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The PvP scenario the OP outlines sounds as if he would be more comfortable following Darkfall, which more closely follows the "sandbox-bandit" PvP example the OP gives.  And, btw, good luck with that game ever releasing.

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As for me, I will be looking forward to the next generation RvR when WAR releases in February.  There is already ample released information and videos about WAR that there really should be no confusion about what the game will be like.