Originally posted by arieste

You are just trolling for no reason.    TR has lots of serious problems as an MMO, but the things you're talking about are not among them which makes me think that you've never actually played the game and are just making stuff up at random.

First the storyline.  I've played about 15 MMOs, incluing AO,EVE,CoX, EQ, EQ2, DaoC, Vanguard, SWG, etc,etc.  Except for AO, there isn't a single MMO that had a better fitting story than tabula rasa.  The way that the world works fits the story 100% perfectly and the things you read in the "lore" and see in the cinematics are exactly the things you experience in the game.  The game is a warzone, it feels like  warzone.  Characters talk like they are in warzone.   Is it very original?  Not really, it's inspired by countless vietnam and WW2 movies.  But it's 10 times better than all bull***t pseudo-tolkien fantasy worlds that all look and sound alike and just have gods of hate and dark elves that go by different names.

The crafting system is broken.  Hrm.. the crafting system has been in the game for less than a month.  I haven't tried it, but that's mainly because I expect it to be broken.  Is this a good thing?  No.  But if you expect a brand new untested system to be perfect, you'll never be satisfied.  Crafting was patched-in in mid-august.  Before that it simply didn't exist.  The first round of fixes hasn't even gone into it yet.

Logos system.  I agree with you for the most part and that was one of my main complaints.  That being said, after I got past level 20, i found numerous puzzles and trials involving knowledge and obtainment of logos.  So maybe there is more to be had later on. 

As far as the missions being boring and repetitive, I didn't find this at all.  If you give me an example of an MMO where the missions were more to your liking, perhaps I would understand better.  Missions are similar to what you see in other MMOs like EQ2 or WoW or CoH.  Kill missions, fetch mission, assassinate mission... a nice touch is escort missions which can be really tough sometimes due to NPCs running around and needing protection, lots of ambushes too which are great. Each playfield has a major storyline chain and many other missions.  I was so into the storyline on the first playfield that I literally played to level 9 without knowing or caring where the XP indicator was.

Instancing.  I've played DDO.  I have no clue where you are even getting a comparison between the two games.  The shared playfields in TR are MASSIVE... they have enemy bases, caves, underground caverns, bunkers and a constant state of action with NPCs fighting all over... all kinds of stuff to explore.  Having done more than 90% of missions for the first 3 playfields the % of missions for instances is about 20% vs. 80% taknig place in the shared playfield.  There are 3-6 instances in each playfield, each with a deep story and numerous missions inside.  They feel immersive and fun.  (Also, they've just added a new type of mission called "Target of opportunity" which you get as you come across a boss or some objective in your travels, sound cool, but i haven't tried yet.)

The game does have problems such as being TOO soloable and having no end-game.  There are also quite a few bugs still.  But most of the stuff you mentioned is completely off-base.

Im not trolling in any way! So don't accuse me of that please! Thats just so typical Fanboism talk you pulling out your sleeve!! Im in Beta for over a month! So yeah I have been playing!

Since the new patch yesterday, they have removed most of the few quest chains there were in the game! Making it even less appealing for brand new players coming out of the tutorial.

The comparison I draw with DDO towards instancing is the way they handled the regular zones making it heavily instances in a way there are like 7 copies of it. Thats a good way destroying ingame community forming! "Hey joe, Im in Wilderness 1 ...I cant find you?" ..."Oh ...I dont know where I am .,...oh wait ...Im in Wilderness 7".    Really adds to the immersiveness of the game ...NOT!

And you pointed it perfectly ...leveling goes extremely fast. So without any endgame, most people buying this game in october will be done with it before the end of their free month! ;)

Cheers

I do believe it needs time, but has some refreshing ideas and concepts, that are needed in these clone MMO's out there.

This is not for all the players though! If you dont fit the gameplay style TR has to offer, you might as well move along and try another one :)

By the way.. the patch that went live yesterday, removed a lot of content becuase they need to focus on certain elements. They will put it back next week.

From what I have played it has a lot of potential, but with the release date announced I am a bit concerned that it will die before that potential is realized and that people will just write it off as a complete failure and go back to the same old 'tried and true' EQ formula.

The combat is great at times and not so great at others, I really like the cover system as it actually makes you think about your position in the battle and can make a massive difference to the outcome of a conflict. I also like the finishing moves and experience multiplier as it encourages you to take risks and really get into the combat rather than just doing ‘fireball, fireball, fireblast, loot, drink, repeat’ like in WoW and such.

I won’t disagree it does feel a bit shallow and 'contentless' and as such needs a lot of work to really make it shine (I have only played to level 15 and haven't even seen the whole base capturing thing in action yet), but I have faith in RG and Co. and will keep playing beta and wait until launch (maybe even a few months after) before I decide to dismiss it and just play something else.

I was really happy to get the beta and test it out.

Tested it for 2 hours and un-installed it due to the game just being plain boring.

This game is not for me, sorry.

I have to say that while games do garner and generate a player's emotions (which is a good thing), there really is no need for you guys to flame one another back and forth - People will either like this game or not; simple.

Back on topic. There are a few features of the game that really could have set it apart from the rest of the crowd but fall SO short (shamefully):

1.) Logos. What an absolutely fantastic idea! It is a shame, however, that it was implemented so very poorly. Logos should really separate your character from all the other 'normal' humans...but the game just doesn't give you that "I'm special" feeling. You go around and collect countless Logos symbols, memorizing them into your tablet, then continue on your merry way in the game. There just isn't enough in-game emphasis on Logos or the use of them for your character - This is just a huge missed opportunity for the game to provide some much needed story depth and draw to the player.

2.) Character classes are just very bland. With so few abilities available to each class, and most of those abilities just being variations of other class abilities, there is a true lack of distinction among players (not only in abilities but appearance too). Shamefully, you really do not feel anymore powerful as a level 30 Spy than you did as a level 8 Recruit - You just now have some different named abilities. Overall, I found the class abilities to be very unoriginal and unimaginative and just plain dull. Looking through the Tier 4 abilities really made my Ranger sigh.

3.) The game's crafting system. WOW. I have to say that this was one of the absolute worst crafting systems I have ever seen implemented within an MMO. The crafting process is just plain boring and the items you create not only cost you more than their vendor versions but are hardly any different than vendor versions! There is just no compelling reason to craft in the game. Nevermind the fact that in order to craft, you will need to spend your valuable ability points into a crafting skill - This means NOBODY will train into crafting skills on their main character and everyone will be left with crafting alternate characters.

4.) Character cloning. What an absolutely fantastic idea that went from super to horrible in a matter of a patch. This was one of the largest draws to the game for many players and they choked it into ultra blandness. Now, you will have to "earn" your character cloning points in order to clone your character. Some character cloning points are based upon your character level, while others can be earned via in-game quests. Previously character cloning was unlimited and allowed players to explore all of the different bland character classes available. Now, character cloning is a very careful and very concious decision a player must be very concerned about making.

Originally posted by acidblood

From what I have played it has a lot of potential, but with the release date announced I am a bit concerned that it will die before that potential is realized and that people will just write it off as a complete failure and go back to the same old 'tried and true' EQ formula.

The combat is great at times and not so great at others, I really like the cover system as it actually makes you think about your position in the battle and can make a massive difference to the outcome of a conflict. I also like the finishing moves and experience multiplier as it encourages you to take risks and really get into the combat rather than just doing ‘fireball, fireball, fireblast, loot, drink, repeat’ like in WoW and such.

I won’t disagree it does feel a bit shallow and 'contentless' and as such needs a lot of work to really make it shine (I have only played to level 15 and haven't even seen the whole base capturing thing in action yet), but I have faith in RG and Co. and will keep playing beta and wait until launch (maybe even a few months after) before I decide to dismiss it and just play something else.

I think I'll steer clear for a bit until I see how the dust shakes out.....

Originally posted by Guillermo197

 

Im not trolling in any way! So don't accuse me of that please! Thats just so typical Fanboism talk you pulling out your sleeve!! Im in Beta for over a month! So yeah I have been playing!

 

Since the new patch yesterday, they have removed most of the few quest chains there were in the game! Making it even less appealing for brand new players coming out of the tutorial.

The comparison I draw with DDO towards instancing is the way they handled the regular zones making it heavily instances in a way there are like 7 copies of it. Thats a good way destroying ingame community forming! "Hey joe, Im in Wilderness 1 ...I cant find you?" ..."Oh ...I dont know where I am .,...oh wait ...Im in Wilderness 7".    Really adds to the immersiveness of the game ...NOT!

And you pointed it perfectly ...leveling goes extremely fast. So without any endgame, most people buying this game in october will be done with it before the end of their free month! ;)

Cheers

If you know any game other than DnL where all players are in the same zone at the same time, I'd love to know what it is, because I don't think anyone has developed that technology.

DDO had no shared combat areas.  DDO had cities with NPCs and shops and all combat was instances.  In TR more than 80% of combat takes place in open, shared playfields.  Furthermore, going from point A in playfield 1 to point B is playfield 2 is EXACTLY the same as going from point A in 1 to point B at 1.  So if you were going to meet Joe,  he would say I'm at B in 2 and you would simply pick that destination.

Use of instancing in DDO sucked.  TR is nothing like it.  If anything, TR took the "good" concepts from DDO (such as heavily involving quests with special events and scripted stories) and used them in an otherwise shared game.  The problem with DDO wasn't that it had instanced quests, it's that it didn't have anything else.  TR has plenty more.

The end-game thing scares me.  However, having seen some intense group combat, there is TONS of potential for what could be done given even today's mechanics.  All they have to do is add tougher AI and some dynamic high level stuff and this will be the best combat game.  They don't need to change how most things work, only add tougher objectives and mobs.  It can't be THAT hard to do.

Originally posted by arieste

 

If that is your comparison to DDO, then you'll be sorely disappointed as I've only played 1 game that solved this problem and it is the single worst MMO ever launched (by popular opinion, not mine), that game was Dark and Light.   Whereas in TR you can just step on a teleporter and meet your provervial "Joe", in game like vanguard and WoW, Joe is simply on another server and there is no way to meet him at all.

 

If you know any game other than DnL where all players are in the same zone at the same time, I'd love to know what it is, because I don't think anyone has developed that technology.

DDO had no shared combat areas.  DDO had cities with NPCs and shops and all combat was instances.  In TR more than 80% of combat takes place in open, shared playfields.  Furthermore, going from point A in playfield 1 to point B is playfield 2 is EXACTLY the same as going from point A in 1 to point B at 1.  So if you were going to meet Joe,  he would say I'm at B in 2 and you would simply pick that destination.

Use of instancing in DDO sucked.  TR is nothing like it.  If anything, TR took the "good" concepts from DDO (such as heavily involving quests with special events and scripted stories) and used them in an otherwise shared game.  The problem with DDO wasn't that it had instanced quests, it's that it didn't have anything else.  TR has plenty more.

The end-game thing scares me.  However, having seen some intense group combat, there is TONS of potential for what could be done given even today's mechanics.  All they have to do is add tougher AI and some dynamic high level stuff and this will be the best combat game.  They don't need to change how most things work, only add tougher objectives and mobs.  It can't be THAT hard to do.

Instancing regular zones is bad! And you want to know wich games don't use instancing for regular zones?

World of Warcraft

Star Wars Galaxies

City of Heroes

 ...and I can go on. But I think and hope you got the point!

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Instancing regular zones were people meet is a bad thing and kills immersiveness of the game! There are plenty of things you can instance like war zones, large missions, dungeons, etc. But leave the social regular areas uninstanced!!

Sure TR didn't do it so extremely worse as DDO, thats a true example of totally madness of massive overkill on instancing!

Been in beta since May.  It's just plain boring . 

I love fps and rpgs but the character development is so slim  that it just doesn't feel like anything at all.  There's just nothing there to separate you from the crowd.  Everyone that plays your class will be taking the exact same skills because everyone knows which ones are the best to take and which ones are overall useless.  It's sad that there is such a limit (around six per class upgrade/change at 5, 15, 30 etc)

If they EVER stop the Bane shooting through walls it would be a miracle.  From May till this last patch (uninstalled over Labor Day) I have never seen such blantent ingorance from the devs on this subject.   I hope before release they at least fix this awful problem.  It causes many untimely deaths and frustration.

Another problem is that over half the quests get their location marked on your map.  Where's the sense of exploration here?  I like good concise directions, not have everything handed to me with a map marker telling me exactly where ABC Cave is.  Now once you find the cave, sure it's ok to have a map marker but geez let us use our brains a lil.

Chatbox in the upper left corner of the screen is the MOST annoying UI problem I have.  Sadly you can't even move the dang thing.  Is there any mmo made after 2002 that you can't move the chat box to a comfortable eye level on your screen?  None of the UI can be moved, that just sheer laziness on the devs part.

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Originally posted by Znith
Been in beta since May. It's just plain boring .

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Been in beta since Feb - I disagree :) Honestly I wouldnt have stuck around if I found the game boring.

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Another problem is that over half the quests get their location marked on your map. Where's the sense of exploration here? I like good concise directions, not have everything handed to me with a map marker telling me exactly where ABC Cave is. Now once you find the cave, sure it's ok to have a map marker but geez let us use our brains a lil.

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The game is targeted at a casual audience. You know the people who dont like to think for themselves :)

Way back in Feb - you had to explore to find the logos you needed for skills. People whined about that - so now you get quests for everyone in the starting area.

But later on - you need to explore to find logos you need - they arent all given to you in a quest.

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None of the UI can be moved, that just sheer laziness on the devs part.

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Not sure if thats changing or not. They have said the U.I wont be moddable. Not sure on the customization though.

Personally some of the quests really annoy me - the log says go rescue Person X or Do something else - its urgent. But if I wander off for 3 days they dont care so it doesnt have that sense of urgency.

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Instancing regular zones were people meet is a bad thing and kills immersiveness of the game! There are plenty of things you can instance like war zones, large missions, dungeons, etc. But leave the social regular areas uninstanced!!

Sure TR didn't do it so extremely worse as DDO, thats a true example of totally madness of massive overkill on instancing!

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I disagree - who wants 5,000 people all competing for the same quest/mob/boss. Regular areas support 300 people.

Bottom line having tested this game for awhile now, Richard Garriot should hang his head in shame.  Six years in development  and this is what is offered to the public, thats just criminal.  I get the feeling that NcSoft are piling on the pressure to get the thing released and I can't say that I blame them after all the investment, they have been more than patient.

This game is going to be the next vanguard.  AKA an unfinished POS released early with some hasbeen designer's name tacked on to it.

 I totally agree, its been WAY over hyped... (can you say bioshock)

falls very short of expectation...

+ with Quake Wars coming, i think this RPG will just not cut it amoung the competions..

yes, as a long time RPG LOVER (Bards Tale/C64) i will gladly play a more fun sci-fi shooter over a close to boring sci-fi RPG)

in fact, sci-fi wise, i think Planescape Torment holds more sci-fi RPG fun...

I have played korean grinders funner than this game. After the first training level it is just the same crap over and over. It is less buggy than Vanguard was but it still lacks any sort of fun factor and I can't quite put my finger on why.

your spot on & i think i know why..

i too prefer the korean freebies to this but i think this is missing cuz we so used to shooting games being high action and this isnt, its repetitive dullness...

i expect to blow up stuff & blast aliens quickly, die & respawn & jump back into it..
I expect a bit of stealth in the fights, them to be smart, on the fly switches to different weapons and grenades & such...

this has a hum-drum feel to it and you cant put this kinda crap into a theme we expect more from, its not going to work...

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Originally posted by wilson1225
This game is going to be the next vanguard. AKA an unfinished POS released early with some hasbeen designer's name tacked on to it.

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Well Nick - R.G was releasing computer games whilst you were still wearing diapers. So what exactly have you ever done for the gaming industry?

I was in the beta too. And I must say this whole game was one big dissapointment, from the bland gameplay(which was cool at first) to the boring quests. The bugs I dont care about(its beta afterall) but some of the basic bugs(like shooting through walls and such) shouldn't even be an issue, not even in beta.

 All in all, I wont be playing this game, rather waiting for Huxley. Maybe that game will get it right 

TR has features that will make many people play it. NPCs can't be "pulled" that easily in TR. their range of fire is equal to yours and they often follow you without returning to their initial "spawn" points, until you or they are dead.

All weapons unlike some fps have attributes and melee damage, they jam, they are useless against some enemy types and ammo costs a lot. You can take cover to reduce damage done to you. Reckless players in TR don't survive for long.

But despite of all these cool features, as an mmorpg it lacks many others that i would like to see implemented from Richard Garriott. The Beta lollipop after so many years of design and development is not an excuse. Tabula Rasa IS designed to be a shooter with rpg elements and not the opposite.

It is a fps evolution nothing to do with an mmorpg evolution. If you like instant shooting action without worrying about missing skill chains, buffs and earning money to buy a vehicle or a crafted item you will like it, if not then there are dozens of other "traditional" mmos that do much better than Tabula Rasa.

Originally posted by _Shadowmage

 

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Originally posted by wilson1225
This game is going to be the next vanguard. AKA an unfinished POS released early with some hasbeen designer's name tacked on to it.

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Well Nick - R.G was releasing computer games whilst you were still wearing diapers. So what exactly have you ever done for the gaming industry?

 Too bad Tabula Rasa is a crap game. Oh wait, I haven´t released a mmorpg, so I can´t have an opinion :/