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9/04/07 7:05:53 AM#41
Originally posted by itchmonJust because Warhammer has been around for a long time does not mean that the game will be a competitor. There have been previous Warhammer video/computer games, and none of them had amazing sales nor did they had extremely high review scores. Lotro has been around much longer than Warhammer,and its much more popular, but Blizzard announced their subscribtion base went up by 500k players despite Lotro's release. Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars is also an incredbly popular franchise, but its subscribtion base never even reached 500k subscribers. A famous IP certainly helps, but its still no receipe for victory. |
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9/04/07 7:33:05 PM#42
Of course WAR will change WoW. The siege weapons and hero class has been "on the horizon" since I started playing in feb 05. They even said they weren't going to have hero classes anymore. The siege weapons and the reamergence of hero classes (I believe) is Blizzard rolling out the big things people have been asking about for years. There's no doubt in my mind they are going to put more features in this xpac than probably any other one. TBC was a good polished xpac with some cool things but why didn't they bring out hero classes then? why not siege weapons?
I don't necessarily think WAR or AoC will kill WoW but they both have a potential too, and moreso than any MMO thats come out while WoW has been out. People that claimed Vangaurd, LoTR, or GuildWars would kill WoW were off their rocker. WAR and AoC...I think its possible. I hope there's some good competition out their, it only makes things better for us consumers. |
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9/05/07 1:25:24 AM#43
Will WAR affect WoW? yes it will. WAR and AoC are PvP oriented games and they are serious about it where as WoW is PvE with a lame PvP.In terms of replayability WAR will crush WoW because there's not a single class which has the same skills.Where as if I take a mage from Horde it has the same skills as Mage from Alliance. Will WAR kill WoW..no and I don`t want it to kill WoW simply because of the bad WoW community by this I don't imply the whole community. The way I see things is that Blizzard is aiming at the Asian market with endless grinding and constant leveling with each new Expansion. The PvP community will be divided between WAR and AoC which will leave WoW with his PvE player base but how many will be able to evenn have a peek to those high level instances such as Naxx. WoW reached 9 millions subs but Guild wars has 4 millions who would have thought that Guild Wars will do fine and they have one of the best instanced PvP on the market. 2008 will be a turning point in gaming because 3 companies (EA Mythic/Funcom/ArenaNet)which have visions will release their MMOs and they are not promising a WoW clone like (LOTRO for example) So I guess greedy money minded Vivendi better start shitting in his pants because his player base will decrease whether they like it or not.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals... |
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9/05/07 9:55:01 AM#44
Originally posted by Ngeldu5t Facts of life: The exact same claims you have made now have been made of Dark Age of Camelot and Everquest. tons of people yelling how everyone would leave for Dark age of Camelot and blablabla, just like you're doing now. what actually happened is that Everquest continued to grow despite DAOC. oh, and if you think that there won't be any grinding in WAR or AoC, you're in for a shock. Give me one reason, just one, why pvp players would actually leave WoW for WAR. Everquest subscribers didn't leave for DAOC, why would they for WAR? Also, WoW has reached 9 million active subscribers, Guild Wars has only sold 4 million units. thats a huge difference. DaoC was not a turning point. Anarchy Online was not a turning point, and neither was Guild Wars.
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9/05/07 1:19:10 PM#45
I haven't said that these game will kill WoW because the only thing that can kill WoW is WoW itself.When I say 2008 will be a turning point I mean that Blizzard will lose subs whether they like it or not because people will have a choice among three games.I was in an active guild with 170 souls after 3 years only 20 is still playing and I`m sure there are many more like us around the world. Most War fans playing WoW will leave the game...why should they play a rip off of WAR which has nothing new after 3 years when they can have WAR with it's humour and lingo Comparing World of Warcraft to Everquest is like comparing a cat to a dog.The time,the customer base and technology was different...grinding in Everquest was meaningful where as grinding in WoW is meaningless because in the next expansion all your work will be wiped off.
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals... |
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9/05/07 3:30:42 PM#46
Originally posted by Gameloading
Wait, what? If they're into PvP, why would they stay with a PvE game when there's a perfectly good (don't know that yet, but whatever) PvP game to play? Unless they're happy with WoW's PvP system (in which case, they're probably not "real" PvPers) and still enjoy raiding, I don't see any reason for them to stay with WoW. And why didn't EQ subscribers leave for DAoC? Wait......they did! Not all of them, obviously, but there was probably more than a few. |
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9/05/07 3:36:10 PM#47
Originally posted by observerOne of the wisest comments I've seen on these forums. MMOG developers, take note. |
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9/05/07 5:47:56 PM#48
Originally posted by Ngeldu5t
Guild Wars sold 4 Million BOXES. There's a big difference between games sold and active subscribers. Everyone that buys GWs is a subscriber even if they only played for 5 minutes. If Blizzard counted every box sold as a subscriber...
WAR will obviously influence WOW, just like Mythic has been HEAVILY influenced by WOW. Looking at the videos, UI and stryle of play is clear enough proof. |
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9/05/07 8:13:45 PM#49
I like the idea of competition which will improve wow because I am a fan of the game and if it had more pvp I would play it more religiously.
To be honest however I don't see war taking more then a couple thousand subscribers, as in 20-40,000 tops because that's ruffly the percentage of people who play wow now that could actually run the game on there computers. Remember most people who play wow are playing on labtops that they got for college or on old systems that they have back home, and considering that 90 percent of people who play wow are under 40 but older than 17 it seems to me that most simply won't even be able to play it. Now this doesn't mean they won't buy it, I remember I bought games before i knew about computer hardware that didn't work, but it means that it will probably piss them off if they have to run it in sub standard settings. Why play a game on a rig that is optimized for osmething more powerful when you can play a game optimized for your own rig. It just looks better. And yes the graphics in WAR are better objectively but how they will look with all the settings down is anyways guess. VG looked great with settings all maxed out but when you put it on default or medium the game looks worse than wow in my opinion and I believe that other people feel this way too. I don't mean to be a graphics stickler but when the graphics look bad, as in designed badly not high res in this case, I just can't play because I feel that there's another game out there that isn't necessarily prettier but more ergonomic to my eyes. I guess I just have ocd when i see a random artifact or something on the screen in an offbeat res that's supposed to be part of the avatar screen or something. Know what i mean? Just my opinion. |
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Wow, who would have thought there'd be so many replies! Anyway, ive been reading through and besides all the bitching i think i gathered some main points. Correct me if i'm wrong but i this is what i got... WoW will see a migration of PvP players to WAR because everyone knows world PvP in WoW is next to dead despite their efforts. Admittedly Hellfire Peninsula seems to see a lot of action. I think it's less likely we'll see PvE players move, who would? some people have clocked up over 100 days play time, made friends in their guild and worked hard to get where they are. As a PvE game WoW is good, grind is unavoidable in every MMO.
To be honest, now that I've thought about it i dont think blizzard have too much to worry about. They have millions of players hooked on a game with 'good' lore, myself included as i was an addict since WC2. They can also 'promise' to bring out new content to keep players ticking over and paying their money, even if it doesnt quite meet expectations it would still take more than that to see lots of players leaving. I still hope WAR does really well and i think i will be playing it. I just think in order for it to succeed well it needs to come out polished and with some sort of free trial(?), anything and everything to get (WoW) players trying it. Oddly one of the big things for me is that i want a game that feels 'dirtier' or 'raw' with blood and guts and cutting limbs off in combat stuff - that just isn't WoW, with it's paper cut out cannons and buildings.
Anyway, not sure how much longer this thread can last, so i'd just like to say i liked the comment about WoW designers catering for the asians by implementing more 'grind', as if that's what they look for in a game... or something |
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9/05/07 9:37:11 PM#51
Originally posted by tinhat Yeah that asian thing is pretty racist considering that race has nothing to do with your prefrences, as if liking playing games with a grind is genetic. |
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9/05/07 10:34:48 PM#52
Originally posted by StevenTheRoc That`s not racism it`s marketing ...wake up man the world is divided in 4 parts US /EU/Asia and the rest of the world and it`s applied to every single product on the planet
In the land of Predators,the lion does not fear the jackals... |
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9/05/07 11:04:38 PM#53
The statement wasn't made about a country it was made about asians and there are many asians living in the west, south, north, and east.
Besides I think it's a little hypocritical claiming that asian countries like grinding when proportionaly more americans play grinding games compared to the total population. http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats2.htm
just look at the internet penetration rate, more people use the internet proportionaly than in any other area of the world. now look at asia http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats3.htm
So you see that if you did a statistical analysis the probability of more people playing games online in this country proportionaly to other countries is much greater. It's comparing a 13 percent penetration rate to a 69 percent penetration rate. There is basicly no room there for any form of statistical error that would lead to the conclusion otherwise, but there still is a small small chance that I could be wrong.
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9/05/07 11:25:22 PM#54
Originally posted by bleyzwun It is players who do this a game company can't hardly prevent it. Untill people stop being so shallow and lose this competition thing going on in MMORPGs, it will continue. What I want to see one MMORPG though finally do is have some balls and not ruin their game with patch after patch induced by player whining. Have some balls and stick to your vision. If your game is popular something is right even though you have people crying about this or that. Stick to it for once, I hate what WoW has become. It isn't Blizzard's vision anymore it is the screwed up selfish player's temporary visions they had from dieing in pvp once.
Classes are not what they were originally, the classes are scewed up now in their pve roles. I really dislike it. Classes use to have more flavor. |
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Originally posted by qombi I think what you're trying to say is... wait... NERF WARLOCKS! amirite? |
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9/06/07 8:59:42 AM#56
Originally posted by BobCrazytonObviously not enough of them left to have a big impact on Everquest or even affect it because Everquest subscriber base kept growing despite DaoC's release. Why would they move? Well asked simply, why would they? World of Warcraft's PVP isn't nearly as bad as some people would like you to believe. its fast paced, easy to get into and is accesible to hardcore and casuals alike. |
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9/06/07 11:42:53 AM#57
I enjoy WoW's PvP far more than I ever enjoyed DAoC. I don't have to rely on a healer to PvP, I don't need a CC class, hell, I don't need anything. My only complaint is that I wish we had more BG variety while leveling to 70, because at level 70, let's face it - the PvP just isn't that balanced. |
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9/06/07 11:52:59 AM#58
What makes me laugh the most.. isn't the endless amount of threads about "what if".. Rather that people who talk about a "great pvp game".. well I'd have to say they are thinking of DAoC from 3 or 4 years ago and haven't seen.. shall we say mythic expertise at rvr in the last 1 to 2 years. I still play DAoC.. and I'm sorry to say but today's Mythic has no freakin clue. At least no more of a clue than the other company. WAR may or may not be a great game... But they no longer can honestly talk about being "rvr experts" in regards to DAoC. Anyway the OP asked us to basicly.. take a guess so here is mine: WAR comes out... Either does well or better than predicted or falls on its face. Regardless many hardcore DAoC players will stick with it.. as with EA's track record and how dead DAoC is now (relatively speaking) its time to jump ship before the old one sinks. There may be people with fond memories that try it... looking to find old friends from DAoC they lost touch with. A month or two later... Blizzard will announced they have reached the next 500,000 or 1,000,000 user mark. EA won't report any spectacular earnings reports... and Vivendi will report how their revenue is up 90 something percent in the gaming division.. mostly due to something related to WoW. In other words it won't change WoW at all... But... about 5 years from now.. Mr. Mark will talk about how WAR beat WoW in every way possible including subscriber base. That's just my predictions tho... (in reality hopefully WAR does very well as a game player... that's just what I'd want to see... but I don't see it doing a heck of a lot to WoW... if you could pull the subscriber base away from WoW... there would have been a US MMO with more than 450,000/500,000 subs.. before WoW...) *edited for content* I decided to nerf the content because there was to much... in other words grammer was fixed and other errors were made to maintain balance. |
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9/06/07 12:17:28 PM#59
I imagine that War will cause WoW to re-focus PvP back to the main storyline (instead of the irrelevant competitive arena fighting). I believe they erred in focusing so much time / effort into the small group (5 man or less) competitive arena play instead of improving upon the battlegrounds or encouraging world pvp (I guess they won't encourage world pvp as that runs counter to all those PvE servers). Either way I'll probably try Warhammer Online (for the darker more adult setting and a game that is built with PvP in mind, not as an after effect). We will have to see if it can live up to the hype. |
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9/06/07 1:45:54 PM#60
Some players will migrate to other PVP games. No doubt about it. I used to play WOW and the PVP effects nothing. Thus my reason for not pvping anymore. PVE folks will not be going anywhere and that is Blizzard's meat and potatoes. They are very good at it and try to change the game to satisfy most players. The official forums really do not portray the player base. Once the so called pvpers take a look at AOC's pvp, alot will not be moving as they do not want to loose their precious items and in AOC, there is a possibility of dropping items and coin. I will be trying it as PVP should be harsh and when you loose oh well. But the game will have to balance the loss vs reward other wise it will not be worth it. A player is not going to play if he or she looses an item and it takes weeks to get another. WAR and AOC willl be for niche market in my opinion. WAR is looking more and more like a WOW clone. My hat is off to the AOC makers for doing something alot of folks will not play. True pvp folks will be there, not players who do not want the harsh reality AOC will provide when they loose. WOW will continue to play with the PVP but, honestly PVP players are in a minority. Last market reseach stated 10%. Although it is three years old.
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if you know the culture of a continent you can sell them anything and FYI I do work in sales and marketing.
