Originally posted by Fion

 

Originally posted by checkthis500

I must say after reading through most of this thread, that lobotomist has presented a very concerned, non-inflammatory statement about the game and his worries.  It wasn't a doomsday theory, and it just listed concern, which more and more people are expressing as it gets closer to 10/30/07. 

I'm surprised at the responses to the OP and the blatant attacks towards him for expressing these concerns in a very clear, concise, and well-written way without showing any hate towards Funcom or AoC.

While I agree that the volume of what they've shown is on par with most other developers out there.  The range of information shown is subpar. 

 

I only flamed the OP mildly after he pulled a complete 180. At first he was saying there was way to little info, and I debated him on this clearly and concisely. When I and others showed there was a tun of info, just not all of it has been shown recently, he pulled a 180 and instead of saying it couldn't be ready because they haven't shown, he said it couldn't be ready and that they must not have shown in a year because they pulled it. So I flamed him mildly for being a 'head in the sand' critic, I wouldn't call that bad. Perhaps others have flamed more then I and I haven't seen.

"While I agree that the volume of what they've shown is on par with other developers out there. The range information shown is supbar."

This is just flat out wrong. Besides videos, the amount of information far surpasses most MMOGs at this stage of developement, including WAR (which I only use as an example because everyone quotes it as a MMOG in development that has released a tun of info and videos.) There are twice as many videos for AoC out there, easily twice as many, then for WAR. Next the shear amount of information found in AoC's FAQ greatly outnumbers that of WAR. AoC has released info on all their classes, many of their zones, monsters in the game, fairly detailed information on every single system in the game. WAR hasn't even released all their races or classes or zones yet.

I think what people's biggest problem is they haven't shown siege PvP yet. This is true, but they are in just 3 weeks. IMHO they wanted to get it as bug free and incredible as possible, and that is sure to give us plenty to talk about over the two months left after they show it before the game comes out.

Again, the whole 'they haven't shown nearly as much, and the range of info is subpar' is just flat wrong. If you know where to look, you could spend days and days reading and watching videos and interviews and more.

I had a huge thing written out, but then I remembered who I was quoting, and thought against logical explanations.  I've tried them before to no avail.

Lets just say that all you have to do is look at the two main sites and you can see that my statement is correct.  (We're not talking about the amount of words, we're talking about proven information either by screenshot or by video)

And I don't want to spend days and days watching boring interviews (yes I've seen a lot of them, fell asleep during one). 

I'll spend my days reading fan feedback after each convention that WAR goes to.  Then I'll wait patiently to see fan videos of the RvR and PvE that they played while they were at those conventions.  And then I'll patiently wait for the newsletters that give detailed information along with tons of screenshots and concept art and things like that. 

If I want to read about spiders, camels, or snakes I'll check out Age of Conan's monthly newsletter.  And if I want to fall asleep I'll watch one of their interviews. (This last bit I just couldn't resist saying, because it's so true.)

Originally posted by Fion

 

Originally posted by checkthis500

I must say after reading through most of this thread, that lobotomist has presented a very concerned, non-inflammatory statement about the game and his worries.  It wasn't a doomsday theory, and it just listed concern, which more and more people are expressing as it gets closer to 10/30/07. 

I'm surprised at the responses to the OP and the blatant attacks towards him for expressing these concerns in a very clear, concise, and well-written way without showing any hate towards Funcom or AoC.

While I agree that the volume of what they've shown is on par with most other developers out there.  The range of information shown is subpar. 

 

I only flamed the OP mildly after he pulled a complete 180. At first he was saying there was way to little info, and I debated him on this clearly and concisely. When I and others showed there was a tun of info, just not all of it has been shown recently, he pulled a 180 and instead of saying it couldn't be ready because they haven't shown, he said it couldn't be ready and that they must not have shown in a year because they pulled it. So I flamed him mildly for being a 'head in the sand' critic, I wouldn't call that bad. Perhaps others have flamed more then I and I haven't seen.

"While I agree that the volume of what they've shown is on par with other developers out there. The range information shown is supbar."

This is just flat out wrong. Besides videos, the amount of information far surpasses most MMOGs at this stage of developement, including WAR (which I only use as an example because everyone quotes it as a MMOG in development that has released a tun of info and videos.) There are twice as many videos for AoC out there, easily twice as many, then for WAR. Next the shear amount of information found in AoC's FAQ greatly outnumbers that of WAR. AoC has released info on all their classes, many of their zones, monsters in the game, fairly detailed information on every single system in the game. WAR hasn't even released all their races or classes or zones yet.

I think what people's biggest problem is they haven't shown siege PvP yet. This is true, but they are in just 3 weeks. IMHO they wanted to get it as bug free and incredible as possible, and that is sure to give us plenty to talk about over the two months left after they show it before the game comes out.

Again, the whole 'they haven't shown nearly as much, and the range of info is subpar' is just flat wrong. If you know where to look, you could spend days and days reading and watching videos and interviews and more.

Aoc was one of the most anticipated mmo atleast for me but all that video's shown almost the same so dont count every video individually check content first and you will discover that most of the video's look alike .Most of the features of the game you had read about it and many of them especially pvp as you point there will be footage out in 3 weeks but game is going to be releashed on oct 30 are they capable to solve all problems and go in open beta before launch?

I believe that there will not be open beta and we will see only few new video footage just to make uss calm but i am afraid turn out will be disapointement .

I am not willing to pay in order funcom fix their lag problems and bugs .

Although i am not interested for WAR even if it will be successfull i know a lot more of how game will be yet they havent releashed all info but they launch 3 or more months later than aoc so that gives them some time.

Even AION had releashed pvp video although is going to be releashed 2008.

I strongly hope that my worries want come true.

Here is the relevant post on AOC forums (the one Jayde commented on)

http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=34550

Originally posted by checkthis500

 

Originally posted by Fion

 

Originally posted by checkthis500

I must say after reading through most of this thread, that lobotomist has presented a very concerned, non-inflammatory statement about the game and his worries.  It wasn't a doomsday theory, and it just listed concern, which more and more people are expressing as it gets closer to 10/30/07. 

I'm surprised at the responses to the OP and the blatant attacks towards him for expressing these concerns in a very clear, concise, and well-written way without showing any hate towards Funcom or AoC.

While I agree that the volume of what they've shown is on par with most other developers out there.  The range of information shown is subpar. 

 

I only flamed the OP mildly after he pulled a complete 180. At first he was saying there was way to little info, and I debated him on this clearly and concisely. When I and others showed there was a tun of info, just not all of it has been shown recently, he pulled a 180 and instead of saying it couldn't be ready because they haven't shown, he said it couldn't be ready and that they must not have shown in a year because they pulled it. So I flamed him mildly for being a 'head in the sand' critic, I wouldn't call that bad. Perhaps others have flamed more then I and I haven't seen.

"While I agree that the volume of what they've shown is on par with other developers out there. The range information shown is supbar."

This is just flat out wrong. Besides videos, the amount of information far surpasses most MMOGs at this stage of developement, including WAR (which I only use as an example because everyone quotes it as a MMOG in development that has released a tun of info and videos.) There are twice as many videos for AoC out there, easily twice as many, then for WAR. Next the shear amount of information found in AoC's FAQ greatly outnumbers that of WAR. AoC has released info on all their classes, many of their zones, monsters in the game, fairly detailed information on every single system in the game. WAR hasn't even released all their races or classes or zones yet.

I think what people's biggest problem is they haven't shown siege PvP yet. This is true, but they are in just 3 weeks. IMHO they wanted to get it as bug free and incredible as possible, and that is sure to give us plenty to talk about over the two months left after they show it before the game comes out.

Again, the whole 'they haven't shown nearly as much, and the range of info is subpar' is just flat wrong. If you know where to look, you could spend days and days reading and watching videos and interviews and more.

 

I had a huge thing written out, but then I remembered who I was quoting, and thought against logical explanations.  I've tried them before to no avail.

IE I'm a fanboi? I wouldn't expect you to think I wasn't.. considering your own reputation on these boards.

Lets just say that all you have to do is look at the two main sites and you can see that my statement is correct.  (We're not talking about the amount of words, we're talking about proven information either by screenshot or by video)

And I don't want to spend days and days watching boring interviews (yes I've seen a lot of them, fell asleep during one). 

I'll spend my days reading fan feedback after each convention that WAR goes to.  Then I'll wait patiently to see fan videos of the RvR and PvE that they played while they were at those conventions.  And then I'll patiently wait for the newsletters that give detailed information along with tons of screenshots and concept art and things like that. 

If I want to read about spiders, camels, or snakes I'll check out Age of Conan's monthly newsletter.  And if I want to fall asleep I'll watch one of their interviews. (This last bit I just couldn't resist saying, because it's so true.)

So, any game, ever being developed, shows features on their website, screenshots, interviews. But you don't take ANYTHINg they say as truth unless you see it with your own eyes at a convention in video, in detail. Yea what ever. Your either extremely jaded, or just trolling, which is typically what your up to.

Anyone who seriously thinks AoC is headed for a Vanguard style launch should read this.

http://www.f13.net/?itemid=561

If after reading this you STILL think that Funcom is on equal footing with AoC that Sigil was with Vanguard 3 months out, your deluding yourself.

If trolling is posting a well thought out though negative view point of a game in development then I guess I'm a troll.

I always thought a troll was someone who said things like "This game sucks" not things like I say which are more along the lines of "I really hope they fix this otherwise the game is going to suffer" or "The animation really needs some work."

Never have I said that AoC sucks, or that it is going to fail.  I've expressed skepticism about the launch and various aspects of the game that I haven't seen or heard an outside impression of.

I'm sorry if someone expressing worry or doubt about your game of choice angers you so much, but it's going to happen.  Call me a troll all you want, but I have been eagerly following AoC as well as Warhammer and a couple other games.  If there are things in Warhammer that make me raise doubts I mention them.  If there are things in AoC that make me raise doubts I mention them. 

And yes I trust a fan's opinion of a game after playing it a whole hell of a lot more than a developer saying that something will be in the game.

EDIT: So that I don't anger you further Fion, I won't post here unless AoC announces they're going to delay their game further.  So hopefully we'll never speak again. I wish you well on your fanboi journey.

The moral is:

Don't be a fanboi about any title that has not been released yet.  Don't get all excited over it during development, haunting its forums for years waiting for the big day.  Don't expect anything from the title.  Forget about it, ignore it, until you actually are in it.

That way, when it flops, it will flop, and you won't be bothered much.  Which as most know, is more likely to happen in the mmo world than a great release meeting the players every need.

The bonus feature of this sort of attitude is that without fanbois hanging off an in-development mmo's forum's every word, the mmo devs won't thinks like "oh well look at all those people addicted to our game already.. thats all guaranteed sales, lets just put out this pile of crap and make lots of money off them" and instead will have to put out a quality product to attract sales.

Originally posted by checkthis500

If trolling is posting a well thought out though negative view point of a game in development then I guess I'm a troll.

I always thought a troll was someone who said things like "This game sucks" not things like I say which are more along the lines of "I really hope they fix this otherwise the game is going to suffer" or "The animation really needs some work."

Never have I said that AoC sucks, or that it is going to fail.  I've expressed skepticism about the launch and various aspects of the game that I haven't seen or heard an outside impression of.

I'm sorry if someone expressing worry or doubt about your game of choice angers you so much, but it's going to happen.  Call me a troll all you want, but I have been eagerly following AoC as well as Warhammer and a couple other games.  If there are things in Warhammer that make me raise doubts I mention them.  If there are things in AoC that make me raise doubts I mention them. 

And yes I trust a fan's opinion of a game after playing it a whole hell of a lot more than a developer saying that something will be in the game.

EDIT: So that I don't anger you further Fion, I won't post here unless AoC announces they're going to delay their game further.  So hopefully we'll never speak again. I wish you well on your fanboi journey.

You missed my point. I didn't outright call you a troll, only suggested that you, like myself, can get a bit overzealous in our opinions of the game. In the end I just suspect that you are a pessimist in general, just as I am an optimist in general.. ok make that 95% of the time. :p That doesn't make either of us right or wrong. At least when discussing hyperbole, assumption and general opinion.

Originally posted by randomt

The moral is:

Don't be a fanboi about any title that has not been released yet.  Don't get all excited over it during development, haunting its forums for years waiting for the big day.  Don't expect anything from the title.  Forget about it, ignore it, until you actually are in it.

That way, when it flops, it will flop, and you won't be bothered much.  Which as most know, is more likely to happen in the mmo world than a great release meeting the players every need.

 

The bonus feature of this sort of attitude is that without fanbois hanging off an in-development mmo's forum's every word, the mmo devs won't thinks like "oh well look at all those people addicted to our game already.. thats all guaranteed sales, lets just put out this pile of crap and make lots of money off them" and instead will have to put out a quality product to attract sales.

Actually Funcom has listened to the community pretty well over the last few years and taken some ideas and made them their own ontop of innovative and original features of their own. If you don't get excited or don't have an interest in the game or don't interact with Q&A sessions they won't know what the community wants more. This way AoC implements several different feature and excludes ones people have seen time and time again.

No one is interested in the game is saying it wlll flop. They just have cause for concern over a few issues and believe that its the right thing to let the people making the game know. You use the term fanbois far too much and take it out of context. For example in my opinion - In a game like warhammer where some guy is in your face with information, hyping people up so much they dribble - is this a better soloution? Its the nature of an mmo to be diverse and people will always want to know more / get excited for new information. Its like a soccer team buying in new players or changing tactics. You don't support them anymore in hope they will play better, yet the players say a good crowd is like having an extra man on the field....

Lol well I am not suggesting AoC is going to flop, or that anyone is.  But I've had my share of bad experiences with new mmo's over the years, so now I just can't be bothered to care.  There are more than enough repetitions of what the players want posted all over the internet, repeating the same nonsense over and over really got tiresome heh.

As for my use of the term fanboi - i use it loosely to describe someone who's overly exited over a game that has not been released yet, and in no way mean it to be anything negative.

And comparing sports teams with mmo development is pretty silly.. Well unless the sport is new and in the process of being invented/developed, and has never been seen before.  When's the last time you've seen that happen? ha.

Edit: Besides.. was there really a huge pre-dev forum following for the games that are now considered 'classic' ? Like the original ground breaking mmo's?  Or were they some dev's vision put to life, and not an attempt to make 100,000 different players wanting different things happy, ending up with 10 players happy and 999,999,910 other players not caring? Maybe we would get better games if the players didnt mess up the developer's  vision during the dev process by spamming their forums with fifty thousand different ideas about how things should work.     That's right, you read me right, i am blaming the player base for the craptastic games we have had released in recent times. 

---

Originally posted by Lobotomist
I visited AOC official forums lately and they are full of concerned posts.
Supposedly only 3 months from release - AOC being revolutionary in many ways , is showing to less to the public.
E3 presentation was incredibly lacking , showing only 10% of game features (or less) ... while even models and animations are said to be in reworking process. Now i may not know much , but the game that was in development for so long - should be 99% finished at this point. Only things that should be done 3 months before release should be bug fixes and tweaks.
Yet , Funcom failure to show almost anything could only mean one thing - what they have right now does not look good - and they are still hard working hard at the game itself.
This unfortunately reminds me of Vanguard / vs LOTRO scenario. And their rates of finished/unfinished betas/releases.
I am hoping this is not true for AOC, and that Funcom allready holds finished game in their hands.
But they should go on and reveal videos and details asap , if they want to avoid this fan base unrest.
 

---

I wouldn't believe or rise to anything his guy says, been band once for being a monsterous troll and look, he is doing it again!

This time he is trying to cover his back my saying "I am hoping this is not true for AOC" or other such rubbish.

Theres a HUGE difference between people who follow a game for years, learn the ins and outs, remember a great deal of what the developers present over those years, and spend perhaps to much time presenting that information to people on forums like these, where 70% of posts are not only asking the same stupid questions over and over, but often have completely wild misconceptions or are posting inaccurate information, what ever the purpose may be,

and Fanboi's.

I, and the former, rather then the latter. Though keeping up with the b*llshit that gets thrown around in this forum can make me appear the later at times, trust me. I don't blindly dive into ANY MMOG and just expect it to live up to my every single expectation and whim, or go ballistic every time someone posts something I disagree with. Though again, the amount of crap that gets posted on this forum does not help those of us who try and keep everyone up to speed, or correct errors (whether the poster was just wrong, or trying to misdirect, or just plain trolling,) and can certainly appear fanboi-ish. But most of us aren't in the least.

After all, on forums that don't limit my sig to 100 idiotic characters (thats about ten words, if your lucky,) my normal Sig is

"Your expectations, gamers, are a house of cards built on a foundation of sand, a cozy ranch house of dreams built on top of a feature list posted on the Internet and some screenshots taken at “Like hell your video card can run this” settings."

Lobomist is vindicated

Originally posted by Hathi

Lobomist is vindicated

(Tachyon Sings)

"They see him trollin,  They Hate'n.  They think hes too white and nerdy"

OK, All jokes aside.  Nobody can take him seriously.  The only game he doesn't bash is PotBS(SOE)  which is a game I've been looking forward to, but seems like its lacking  as of right now.  They first person fights in the game are very cookie cutter, and most of them play out the same way every time.   Sea battle can be interesteding, but I think it'll end up like Eve, where most people pick the fastest ships, and run while they don't outnumber a stronger ship.   They game has a great idea, but too easily exploited just like EVE.   But HE'LL sing praises to this game over and over again, then hop over and trash other games.  I don't want to seem like I'm picking on anyone,  I'm not.   I'm just pointing out that perhaps look into what people are saying befor you merit what they've said.   Its easy to see who's worth listening to ( somebody like AmazingAvery) who shows facts, and gives reasons.   Thats who you should actualy listen to, not people why say "I HEARD THIS..... ITS GONNA SUCK!!!"

I dont see another AOC having a really bad launch since the release date was delayed.  Good choice on their part.  But the launch will have problems, every mmos launch has problems.

Originally posted by FE|Tachyon

 

Originally posted by Hathi

Lobomist is vindicated

HARDLY.   IF you look at his post history you can clearly see;  Well what can only best be described in a song....

 

(Tachyon Sings)

"They see him trollin,  They Hate'n.  They think hes too white and nerdy"

 

OK, All jokes aside.  Nobody can take him seriously.  The only game he doesn't bash is PotBS(SOE)  which is a game I've been looking forward to, but seems like its lacking  as of right now.  They first person fights in the game are very cookie cutter, and most of them play out the same way every time.   Sea battle can be interesteding, but I think it'll end up like Eve, where most people pick the fastest ships, and run while they don't outnumber a stronger ship.   They game has a great idea, but too easily exploited just like EVE.   But HE'LL sing praises to this game over and over again, then hop over and trash other games.  I don't want to seem like I'm picking on anyone,  I'm not.   I'm just pointing out that perhaps look into what people are saying befor you merit what they've said.   Its easy to see who's worth listening to ( somebody like AmazingAvery) who shows facts, and gives reasons.   Thats who you should actualy listen to, not people why say "I HEARD THIS..... ITS GONNA SUCK!!!"

AA has his moments to where the line between facts and forum hijinks blur, this is true of all of us we wouldnt be human if so. Theres no saints here. The thread said its not ready x,y,z reasons for why.The followers of the game said its ok, on track its fine. Then the DEVS said no its not fine because of reason 123. So who wins? Nobody. Who the loser?  We all do, if your bored and wanted this game be ready and out when it was listed to be.

There are several games that have tried some form of robust housing and city building/defense system, and almost all of them have been disappointing.

Asheron’s Call was the weakest performer of its crop of games, and its sequel did worse. A Tale in the Desert and Wurm Online are niche games. Shadowbane and Horizons have a recurring feature at GU Comics called “the Bug Zapper,” and Horizons still beats Vanguard as a model of how not to make a game. Star Wars Galaxies … yeah. Wish never went live. EVE Online is the lone winner of the pack, although didn’t it hit 100,000 subscribers before it added player-owned outposts and starbases? Age of Conan is the next test case, although its high violence and gore quotient may affect its results.

Funcom are fully aware of what happens when you release early. AO was one of the most promising games in development and then Funcom release too early and within a few months the game had almost died.

I can't see them making that mistake again...

Originally posted by xprimez

Originally posted by FE|Tachyon

 

Originally posted by Hathi

Lobomist is vindicated

HARDLY.   IF you look at his post history you can clearly see;  Well what can only best be described in a song....

 

(Tachyon Sings)

"They see him trollin,  They Hate'n.  They think hes too white and nerdy"

 

OK, All jokes aside.  Nobody can take him seriously.  The only game he doesn't bash is PotBS(SOE)  which is a game I've been looking forward to, but seems like its lacking  as of right now.  They first person fights in the game are very cookie cutter, and most of them play out the same way every time.   Sea battle can be interesteding, but I think it'll end up like Eve, where most people pick the fastest ships, and run while they don't outnumber a stronger ship.   They game has a great idea, but too easily exploited just like EVE.   But HE'LL sing praises to this game over and over again, then hop over and trash other games.  I don't want to seem like I'm picking on anyone,  I'm not.   I'm just pointing out that perhaps look into what people are saying befor you merit what they've said.   Its easy to see who's worth listening to ( somebody like AmazingAvery) who shows facts, and gives reasons.   Thats who you should actualy listen to, not people why say "I HEARD THIS..... ITS GONNA SUCK!!!"

AA has his moments to where the line between facts and forum hijinks blur, this is true of all of us we wouldnt be human if so. Theres no saints here. The thread said its not ready x,y,z reasons for why.The followers of the game said its ok, on track its fine. Then the DEVS said no its not fine because of reason 123. So who wins? Nobody. Who the loser?  We all do, if your bored and wanted this game be ready and out when it was listed to be.

Nothing bothers me more then one line predictions of the future.   Because we all know you can't see the future, why not show people why you feel the way you feel about something,  and see what they think.    (by YOU i don't mean YOU, I mean, EVERYONE"

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I visited AOC official forums lately and they are full of concerned posts.

Supposedly only 3 months from release - AOC being revolutionary in many ways , is showing to less to the public.

E3 presentation was incredibly lacking , showing only 10% of game features (or less) ... while even models and animations are said to be in reworking process. Now i may not know much , but the game that was in development for so long - should be 99% finished at this point. Only things that should be done 3 months before release should be bug fixes and tweaks.

Yet , Funcom failure to show almost anything could only mean one thing - what they have right now does not look good - and they are still hard working hard at the game itself.

This unfortunately reminds me of Vanguard / vs LOTRO scenario. And their rates of finished/unfinished betas/releases.

I am hoping this is not true for AOC, and that Funcom allready holds finished game in their hands.

But they should go on and reveal videos and details asap , if they want to avoid this fan base unrest.

 

turns out, you were right bro...thats why the game got delayed to march of 08    :>(