Originally posted by vajuras

 

Originally posted by Recant

Well how does controlling deep 0.0 space affect the newbie that just did the tutorial?  The analogy you gave isn't really relevant.

And your actions in a battleground do affect things.  If you win, the enemy has lost 2 marks.  They've spent the same amount of time as you to get 33% of the rewards.  With the rewards, you buy gear, making you stronger, allowing you to contribute a little more to the fight.

The World PvP areas give buffs, and there are PvP quests that require that you do the objectives.  If you have complete control, you deny the other side from completing the quests.

It's not territorial control as per EVE.  But they're objectives nonetheless.

Just so we're clear, I think EVE has an overall better philosophy than WoW when it comes to PvP.  But it offers a different experience, that doesn't make WoW PvP suck, it can be very enjoyable.  When you think about it, these are all just games, and nothing has any real meaning anyway.  WoW PvP is more about the moment, EVE PvP is about the long term consequences.

I play both, I see the strengths and weaknesses in both.  WoW is just hated cos it's so damn popular.

 

yeah but who gives a care about some noob doing the tutorial? I'm protecting space for the newbies in "my" space. protecting my assets. I dont care about some random noob out there in safe space. now maybe if that noob is in my corp and he gets ganked thats different but just some guy out doing the tutorials? he can join my cause and fight or just stay outta my way (when I'm in 0.0)

I was referring to the guy who asked "how does fighting in a battleground affect a level 1 priest".

Alright I got alot of replys here, I appreciate that..im not so much looking for a new MMO, I already  know what I want to play, I was looking for the features in the games the older mmo gamers are always referring to when judging a game, im not saying its right, but I was just a bit curious as to what the big difference that made it more fun, and you guys are pretty much right, WoW is nothing but a reward, everyone is effected, and there are penaltys... to the one guy who was talking about PvP in WoW, those world PvP objective are a joke, noone does them, and I was playing about two weeks ago and people still afk and macro spam in AV, arenas are only a grind for gear, and for me they just got old once i did them for about two weeks, don't get me wrong I think WoW's PvP is fine, but that might just be because im a moron to mmos besides only a small portion.

Oh and while I am at it, is there any games you guys reccomend while I wait for WAR, im not really into paying, I really would just like to try a trial, do they have those for games like dark age of camelot, eve online, ultima online or any other classic pvp games

Again thanks for the help with giving me some info on the history of mmos, i've just been so clueless to what the diff was, because the games seem to play similarly.

Oh rubbish.  Azeroth PvP objectives might not be used as much as they used to be, but Outland PvP objectives are contested all the time.  It's a constant battle. 

You call WoW PvP a joke yet you have admitted you don't know what other MMOs offer that WoW doesn't.  And you also admitted you've had fun for 2 years.  So now you're contradicting yourself by saying you had fun in 'joke PVP'.

Pfft.  Burn-out case right here.

EvE has a free trial, just go to their site.  Dark Age of Camelot also has a trial but they still ask you for a credit card # even though they don't bill you which I find deflates the population all that much more and limits a bit of the accessibility.  I believe Ultima Online is free to play but I could be wrong.

In the end you've picked the best way to find out by just trying the games themselves.  There is no substitute for personal experience.  I could tell you numerous advantages/disadvantages of any given game but those are personal views and opinions and are biased no matter if the person telling you says they are not.

@ Recant

I had a whole lot more fun in the days of open world pvp in wow.  Even though there were no rewards for say killing all the inhabitants of Terran Mill it still made you feel like you did something.  And as soon as others of the opposite faction found out that there was action brewing in Terran Mill they would get on their mains, or whatever character they had that was able to do something in that situation and come and fight.

To me, the BGs in wow seemed somewhat underwhelming.  The whole CTF just didn't fit into the lore or the style of game IMO.  I just can't for the life of me picture elves or gnomes or even orcs giving a damn about a flag no matter what it is supposed to symbolize.  It just does not fit the genre IMO.

Originally posted by Recant

Oh rubbish.  Azeroth PvP objectives might not be used as much as they used to be, but Outland PvP objectives are contested all the time.  It's a constant battle. 

You call WoW PvP a joke yet you have admitted you don't know what other MMOs offer that WoW doesn't.  And you also admitted you've had fun for 2 years.  So now you're contradicting yourself by saying you had fun in 'joke PVP'.

Pfft.  Burn-out case right here.

man the WoW objectives you just said the flaw- "constant battle". that just shouldnt be. It should be more like, "We have taken control of this area you can either fight or gtfo". you kill your enemy they need to take some sort of punishment. Really i dont like grind and if you know of some other way to achieve true impact I'll listen. but death penalty is the best way to hit it.

its okay for FPS games to not have a penalty- the whole darn thing ends and it shows the rankings when its over.

In MMORPG we need 'victory'. I cannot have victory if my enemies are immortal GODS that cant be killed.

my friends loved to just ride around, gank, and spit on the opposite faction. I was like why what did this little night elf lowbie do to me lol. I want to take control and get gear and money. Like at least takeover Taurren Mill and rob the freakin NPCs lol

Originally posted by Recant

Oh rubbish.  Azeroth PvP objectives might not be used as much as they used to be, but Outland PvP objectives are contested all the time.  It's a constant battle. 

You call WoW PvP a joke yet you have admitted you don't know what other MMOs offer that WoW doesn't.  And you also admitted you've had fun for 2 years.  So now you're contradicting yourself by saying you had fun in 'joke PVP'.

Pfft.  Burn-out case right here.

I did have fun in WoW pvp for two years, and it wasn't because I hardcore PvPd, its because i had about 15 characters because I couldnt stick to one, I think that if I hardcore pvpd i would have stopped playing earlier.

Please realize that I am in NO way saying WoW is a bad game, I am just trying to find out why other people think it is lacking compared to the older games. I found that answer, and I really would appreciate if it goes no further then my post.

Originally posted by Ferusa

Hello, I am indeed relatively new to MMO's, I have only played Shadowbane for a day or two, WoW for two years, and lotro for a little bit, I was just wondering, everyone says the PvP in wow is boring, and the same for lotro, not neccisarily everyone, but a vast majority of the mmorpg.com population. I was wondering, what is different in games from WoW that make it fun, because I did find it fun for some time, besides the fact that it was really a grind, I thought the action was good along with the abilities, I have seen other games played, and videos but I just don't seem to get what is so special about it, could someone help me out here?

DAoc had the best pvp , it was also rather fun... There simply too much to discuss why it was, other than it was a effort of all three sides, not about honor or realm points often , but instead more about beating your enemies and taking their keeps/relics (Basiclly, like WoW has hoard and alleince , daoc had 3 sides but they WERE YOUR ENEMIES, not just an opposing side).

Quit trying to kill my fun you killjoy

Hehe, I'm kidding.

I'm actually quite amazed at how civil this entire thread has been up to this point.  It's kind of nice to be able to put forth an argument and have someone come along and attempt to disprove them in a mature and logical way.  Either none of the trolls are interested in this topic or they are all huddled under some bridge and I personally wouldn't mind if this thread kept going as long as the civility stays.

Originally posted by Recant

Oh rubbish.  Azeroth PvP objectives might not be used as much as they used to be, but Outland PvP objectives are contested all the time.  It's a constant battle. 

You call WoW PvP a joke yet you have admitted you don't know what other MMOs offer that WoW doesn't.  And you also admitted you've had fun for 2 years.  So now you're contradicting yourself by saying you had fun in 'joke PVP'.

Pfft.  Burn-out case right here.

I have nothing against wow, still raiding with my priest but as far as pvp its a carebear game bottom line. You want good pvp you should try DaoC

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Objectives , Rewards, and Penalties . These make PvP fun imo,  you need atleast 2 of these to make PvP Work,  older games like EQ , UO worked on Rewards and Penalties , if you kill you take if you die you lose, simple but effective to make PvP competitive. DAOC and Shadowbane worked on all 3 which is why in most part people bring them up so much in regards to good pvp, Objective, take the enemy keeps, reward items / realm points / bragging rights , penalties lose items / lose keeps / lose realm bonuses / ect ect.

 

 

WoW only has 1, Rewards, there is no objective, there is no penalties, all you do is kill and die and be rewarded for it no matter how good or bad you are, this makes PvP boring. Theres no competition if you have no point to strive for and no fear of death or loss.

Brilliant!  

Originally posted by Soultwister

 

Originally posted by Recant

Oh rubbish.  Azeroth PvP objectives might not be used as much as they used to be, but Outland PvP objectives are contested all the time.  It's a constant battle. 

You call WoW PvP a joke yet you have admitted you don't know what other MMOs offer that WoW doesn't.  And you also admitted you've had fun for 2 years.  So now you're contradicting yourself by saying you had fun in 'joke PVP'.

Pfft.  Burn-out case right here.

I hate wow fanboys..

 

I have nothing against wow, still raiding with my priest but as far as pvp its a carebear game bottom line. You want good pvp you should try DaoC

My ppreeeeccciiioouussss...

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Objectives , Rewards, and Penalties . These make PvP fun imo,  you need atleast 2 of these to make PvP Work,  older games like EQ , UO worked on Rewards and Penalties , if you kill you take if you die you lose, simple but effective to make PvP competitive. DAOC and Shadowbane worked on all 3 which is why in most part people bring them up so much in regards to good pvp, Objective, take the enemy keeps, reward items / realm points / bragging rights , penalties lose items / lose keeps / lose realm bonuses / ect ect.

 

 

WoW only has 1, Rewards, there is no objective, there is no penalties, all you do is kill and die and be rewarded for it no matter how good or bad you are, this makes PvP boring. Theres no competition if you have no point to strive for and no fear of death or loss.

Exactly! Kudos to you! When there are only rewards, that is incentive for a competition, and not a friendly one. And to win a competition, you have to work, work, work. I only PvP'd casually and enjoyed it immensly, I developed my own playstyle and explored it, never got burned out from PvPing in WoW, not once.

Originally posted by Flodgy

 

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Objectives , Rewards, and Penalties . These make PvP fun imo,  you need atleast 2 of these to make PvP Work,  older games like EQ , UO worked on Rewards and Penalties , if you kill you take if you die you lose, simple but effective to make PvP competitive. DAOC and Shadowbane worked on all 3 which is why in most part people bring them up so much in regards to good pvp, Objective, take the enemy keeps, reward items / realm points / bragging rights , penalties lose items / lose keeps / lose realm bonuses / ect ect.

 

 

WoW only has 1, Rewards, there is no objective, there is no penalties, all you do is kill and die and be rewarded for it no matter how good or bad you are, this makes PvP boring. Theres no competition if you have no point to strive for and no fear of death or loss.

 

Exactly! Kudos to you! When there are only rewards, that is incentive for a competition, and not a friendly one. And to win a competition, you have to work, work, work. I only PvP'd casually and enjoyed it immensly, I developed my own playstyle and explored it, never got burned out from PvPing in WoW, not once.

I agree with you. WoW does not need all 3 for its PvP to be fun. WoW redefined the meaning of PvP by creating extremely fun PvP that cannot be found in other games.

Originally posted by Flodgy

 

Originally posted by ImixZinz

Objectives , Rewards, and Penalties . These make PvP fun imo,  you need atleast 2 of these to make PvP Work,  older games like EQ , UO worked on Rewards and Penalties , if you kill you take if you die you lose, simple but effective to make PvP competitive. DAOC and Shadowbane worked on all 3 which is why in most part people bring them up so much in regards to good pvp, Objective, take the enemy keeps, reward items / realm points / bragging rights , penalties lose items / lose keeps / lose realm bonuses / ect ect.

 

 

WoW only has 1, Rewards, there is no objective, there is no penalties, all you do is kill and die and be rewarded for it no matter how good or bad you are, this makes PvP boring. Theres no competition if you have no point to strive for and no fear of death or loss.

 

Exactly! Kudos to you! When there are only rewards, that is incentive for a competition, and not a friendly one. And to win a competition, you have to work, work, work. I only PvP'd casually and enjoyed it immensly, I developed my own playstyle and explored it, never got burned out from PvPing in WoW, not once.

 The problem is thats EVERYONE is rewarded, you don't even have to particpate to benefit. Even the losing team gains points and/or marks. You can have an unbelieveable bad arena rating and still gain points for your arena gear, you never have to win, just particpate. Thats the problem, I can sit afk in AV for a couple weeks with simple macros that make my toon jump every 3 min and earn enough honor for my HWL set.. without EVER even particpating. WoW pvp only rewards, and they reward you whether your good or bad, playing or not.

When you have to win or accompish things in order to earn these rewards, then you will see real competition.. when you don't earn honor/ marks if you lose the BG, if you don't earn arena points for the week without an over fifty winning percentage.

Atm BGs are a joke, AV isn't even considered pvp... and Arena = Free Epics... Just play 10 games a week, win lose or draw.. you get your gear

 If you honestly like it because you enjoy it, thats great... But wow is nowhere near the best game in terms of competitive pvp. And im not a fanboy of any 1 game, My main in wow is Soultwister.. 70 UD priest, Eitrigg.. feel free to Armory me, pvp however, is lame when even the worst pvper in history is rewarded regardless of performace. Maybe thats why so many people love it, damn carebears