Originally posted by siresper

 At least in oblivion enemies react to getting hit or blocked. Conan? Its like throwing a bunch of mindless robots that feel no pain into a skating rink (slippy slidin all the way).

You'll note, it's like this in EVERY MMOG. There are very good, technical reasons why you don't have the same kind of reactive animations in singleplayer or small-scale multiplayer games. I won't go into them, as they have been discussed on several pages of this very thread.

I really don't get why people knock AoC for not having much interaction between weapon and target when you go to just about any other MMOG (including WAR,) and mob and player are 5-10' apart, swinging like mad and not only are their attacks not even trying to look like they are hitting. You get a nice little particle flash and floaty damage numbers. Mobs don't even move when hit. Almost every single MMOG is like this for melee combat. So why do you expect AoC to be any different?

Originally posted by Fion

 

Originally posted by siresper

 At least in oblivion enemies react to getting hit or blocked. Conan? Its like throwing a bunch of mindless robots that feel no pain into a skating rink (slippy slidin all the way).

 

You'll note, it's like this in EVERY MMOG. There are very good, technical reasons why you don't have the same kind of reactive animations in singleplayer or small-scale multiplayer games. I won't go into them, as they have been discussed on several pages of this very thread.

I really don't get why people knock AoC for not having much interaction between weapon and target when you go to just about any other MMOG (including WAR,) and mob and player are 5-10' apart, swinging like mad and not only are their attacks not even trying to look like they are hitting. You get a nice little particle flash and floaty damage numbers. Mobs don't even move when hit. Almost every single MMOG is like this for melee combat. So why do you expect AoC to be any different?

 

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You'r kidding right? Look at CoH/CoV all their enemies react to you blasting them, they are thrown in the air, they bend under the pain and it's a 3 years old game...

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Bulls eye!

I was actually looking forward to AoC until a few months back when i watched the video and realized it was all smoke and mirrors. The combat is slow and clunky, i cant imagine what it would be like in pvp!

Also just to set the record straight, AoC isn't the first to introduce this type of combat style. there are smaller budget games that have done this. the only one i can think of atm is http://www.metin2.us/  i played this one for a bit and it was cool, you could run into a pack of mobs and swing widly hitting a few a time. The animation is wayyy better than AoC even though its a small-budget-no-name-grindfest. the avatar didn't slide, and his sword actually made contact with the mobs, and the mobs actually respond to it pretty well.

Now my point is if a game like metin2 can pull it off, why is AoC struggling? My guess is they realized this and pushed it back till march to redo the physics.

Originally posted by shadowrunxt

 

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You'r kidding right? Look at CoH/CoV all their enemies react to you blasting them, they are thrown in the air, they bend under the pain and it's a 3 years old game...

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Bulls eye!

I forgot about CoH, and that does have great reactions to being hit. It's probably one of the many reasons the combat is so fun in the game. But CoX is pretty unique in that matter. Anarchy Online is another one were even in melee, mobs reacted to being hit. It was one of the better parts of the (compared to the likes of CoH) outdated and tired combat system.

As to WoW even having more hit reactions. Does this look like 'more realistic' combat to anyone?

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/68.html

Bout 2/3 the way through that movie, 6 odd people are standing around a dinosaur hacking away, but they are all like 10' away, the mob is barely showing any reaction, and the only evidence that they are even attacking the thing is the big flashy particle effects and the fact that they are facing it. This is the norm in 90% of the MMOGs out there.

Listen guys, I don't disagree that there needs to be more weapon-target interaction. I just disagree with the idea that this is the biggest downside of the combat, when in fact almost every other MMOG is the exact same way. With the delay, and the new way that combo's will work in the game, the devs have said that they will be able to add more of that into combat. They'll be able to speed it up, add more post-effects, more weapon-target collision and reaction.

I just don't buy the 'weapons go right through mobs, it's totally unrealistic' argument when thats the defacto standard of the industry. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try to improve on it. But it should at least clue people in as to WHY almost every MMOG does this.

Fion really.  I'd just stop.  Everything you've claimed and said has been countered to the point that you're just starting to sound like you've never played a game in your life, and that you have tunnel vision for AoC.

Can't you just admit, like Funcom recently has, that the combat system was flawed.  Hopefully some of these flaws (since they didn't bother to say "exactly" what was flawed about it) include the foot slide, the constantly moving forward while attacking, the lack of reaction by anyone, the fact that your armor seems to bleed as much as a person, and various other things that people have pointed out.

People aren't complaining about these things because every other MMO has them, they're complaining about them because in this age of MMOs hardly any MMO has these flaws.

Go play LotRO and you'll notice there's negligible foot slide if any at all.  The characters react to being hit as well.  I'm sure the reaction thing is just because the game's still in beta-phase, but it's a worthwhile thing to point out.

The only thing I've seen in an AoC vid that was more realistic than any MMO I've seen was when a mob got rooted, and he actually reached down and pulled at his feet and looked like he was trying to break free. 

That was an awesome touch and one that most developers wouldn't have thought of.  They need to apply that kind of thing to all of their other animations during this next 6 months.

As an aside: I have been wondering something for the past few days.  If the reason for the delay is to fix the combat system and they're claiming that fixing the combat system is going to take months, does this mean that we won't see Siege Combat at Leipzig?  Or does it mean that the Siege Combat we will see will be similar to the leaked beta footage of old?  Thoughts?  Anyone?

There's way more important things to be fixed than combat animations if you listen their beta testers. Servers for instance. Had they not done this we would have another Vanguard in out hands in october. It was a good decision and it was the only right thing to do.

Originally posted by ndpunch

There's way more important things to be fixed than combat animations if you listen their beta testers. Servers for instance. Had they not done this we would have another Vanguard in out hands in october. It was a good decision and it was the only right thing to do.

Thanks for a tidbit of perhaps insider info.  Or can you link to this information?

Originally posted by checkthis500

 

 

Thanks for a tidbit of perhaps insider info.  Or can you link to this information?

No, I can't link it.

Originally posted by ndpunch

Originally posted by checkthis500

 

 

Thanks for a tidbit of perhaps insider info.  Or can you link to this information?

No, I can't link it.

I see.... hmmmm

Originally posted by checkthis500

As an aside: I have been wondering something for the past few days.  If the reason for the delay is to fix the combat system and they're claiming that fixing the combat system is going to take months, does this mean that we won't see Siege Combat at Leipzig?  Or does it mean that the Siege Combat we will see will be similar to the leaked beta footage of old?  Thoughts?  Anyone?

As for what they end up showing.. we'll just have to wait and see of course. I won't take a stance at this point as to the quality of that footage. But if part of the reason for the delay (that they didn't mention) was lag/server issues, I would suspect it would have a major impact on what is shown. I was hoping for a large guild vrs guild size siege example but it might possibly be downgraded to a small handful players that would allow them to show the siege system without any problems cropping up.

I was in high hype on this game too. After I watched their recent video and the release of Two World, I've given up this game. I don't think they can solve all those problems when release.. The release date is just 2 months from now. Also, I am not sure if any of you have noticed another game which also released on Xbox360 and PC called Two World. I found this game looks very similar to AOC (at least on graphics) and it was released with high hype too. I've tried and the combat is 90% similar to AOC's video. You swing your weapon and you totally don't feel you have hit the mob and he falls.  if u have read the review of two worlds, the game sucks with different kind of bug in combat, mount fighting and collision detection.

Um, the release date was pushed back 5 months to help improve the combat and solve many of the things that have come up in this very post. Funcom knows they need to improve the look and feel and ease-of-use but hard-to-master combat of AoC. :)

Oh and Two-Worlds looks cool. But it's not an MMORPG. It looks like kind of a lower-budget Oblivion with online play. But yea, I'm gonna totally get it. :D Bioshock, Two Worlds, Half-Life Orange Box, Quake Wars, Unreal Tournament 3, Crysis, et al. This fall/winter is going to be FULL of great great games. So I'm not worried about having nothing to play until spring. Not at all. :)

Yea my monthly gaming budget is going to be a bit in debt in the next several months as well. (I usually try to limit myself to 1 MMOG and 1 game per month, granted I've not bought any games in months, the spring/summer game season was SO lacking.. so I guess it evens out in the end.

Just to illustrate what i miss in the combat footages, i made 2 very simply clip. Bare in mind, they are made without, biped( takes forever to rig) and without physique - used like 10 mins:). Should however show exactly what i miss:

1. With no reaction to a slap; i added a flash which might help abit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BfOKzTY09c

2. However with a actualy physical reactuion to the slap, things seems much more satisfying:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtOwylti3gg

Originally posted by checkthis500

 

Originally posted by ndpunch

There's way more important things to be fixed than combat animations if you listen their beta testers. Servers for instance. Had they not done this we would have another Vanguard in out hands in october. It was a good decision and it was the only right thing to do.

They certainly failed to mention having any server problems in that letter to the community or any of the posts made by devs.  (Unless I missed those)

 

Thanks for a tidbit of perhaps insider info.  Or can you link to this information?

Beta servers usually suck, due to continious testing of what it can or cannot handle. You'll be playing on a much higher quality one if the game was in retail.

AoC isn't the only game to have a ''crappy'' server in beta.

Originally posted by Zhqrxt

Just to illustrate what i miss in the combat footages, i made 2 very simply clip. Bare in mind, they are made without, biped( takes forever to rig) and without physique - used like 10 mins:). Should however show exactly what i miss:

1. With no reaction to a slap; i added a flash which might help abit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BfOKzTY09c

 

2. However with a actualy physical reactuion to the slap, things seems much more satisfying:)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtOwylti3gg

We all know that makes it look hella good, and way more realistic.

That it does, it's to bad hardly any MMOG's use the later rather then the former, but almost all of them (save perhaps CoX) do. Maybe with the changes to the combat system in AoC, we'll see more interaction animations like those. One can only hope.

hopefully we will see more PvP and stuff this week ^^ hope that the game-play will be "real" as  funcom says. but for now I can only be patient and openminded...bah!!... wish that I could come to Leipzig so I can see and maby try it for my self.

Originally posted by Smackr

hopefully we will see more PvP and stuff this week ^^ hope that the game-play will be "real" as  funcom says. but for now I can only be patient and openminded...bah!!... wish that I could come to Leipzig so I can see and maby try it for my self.

Real gameplay ?. Just a on sidenote.  Funcom's PvP engine is just named "Real Combat". There is nothing real about it. Just Funcom's way to the revolutionary. Heck, and it going to be revamped.