PvP-centric doesn't mean it has to shaft and ruins PvE.

Mythic has yet to understand this point.

Originally posted by Anofalye

PvP-centric doesn't mean it has to shaft and ruins PvE.

 

Mythic has yet to understand this point.

PvE-centric doesn't mean that it has to shaft and ruin PvP.

Blizzard has yet to understand this point.

Originally posted by Raunu

 

Originally posted by Anofalye

PvP-centric doesn't mean it has to shaft and ruins PvE.

 

Mythic has yet to understand this point.

 

PvE-centric doesn't mean that it has to shaft and ruin PvP.

 

Blizzard has yet to understand this point.

Agreed.

Have you looked into the mather that if they where going to focus on PvE in Warhammer, not only would it make no sense but they would have to try to steal players from ex. World of Warcraft. Now good luck with that, sure you could get a few whos tierd of the game but still. Then why not try to make the ultimate RvR MMO where your competition aint as hard and to a great part even your own players! (DAOC)

And why would ppl get frustaded from alot of pvp? there is alot of people who constantly pvp in PvE focused games, if they can 24/7 pvp in those games, why cant they in WAR ?

Your  arguments fail. Something this game wont.

I totally disagree with you. Most people want to pvp but they just too weak to get a chance to win in pvp, so they went to farm mobs to get better equips and level. Guild War is a really good example, they have lots of players and the game is mainly on pvp. It just a new kinda game system to make the players to have even chance. people are getting tired to kill mobs over and over, and thats what a product called "Bot" produced. In my opinion, i think Warhammer will be success just the game system and the graphic.

Originally posted by sekira

Never have... never will. Those that have tried....have they been successful? Maybe to a minimal extent, but relative to very successful games? No. Name some good mmorpgs games based mostly on PvP? Anyone?

The majority of mmorpg players DO NOT PVP, so a business approach to cater about 80% to PvP'ers will not doubt doom this game.  This leaves you with a smaller community of players who will simply get frustrated by PvP'ing the majority of the time. Minimal PvE content will eventually force a player to PvP to successfully progress in the game... instead of allowing the player to choose to pvp on his/her own.

What does that leave you with? A game with 1/10th or less the population  compared to another mmorpg that actually has a business approach that makes sense.

What a horrible flaw by Mythic. MMORPGs were never made to be solely PVP based because it's nearly impossible to have good PVP balance. Usually... it's horrible and people would die for semi-good. This is why very few people pvp 24/7 in these types of games and most never will. But what is that... your game lacks alternative gameplay for those who don't feel like PvP'ing every second?

I'm not saying this game doesn't have a chance of being a decent PvP game....but the odds are against it due to design flaws and it won't be nearly successful compared to most mmorpgs of the next generation because it fails to attract the type of people who play these games.

Someone throw this kid in front of  a moving bus.

Sekira, this is a good post and a very accurate one. I for one enjoy PvP as I have played it in WOW,GW, SWG ,EQ2 and a host of other shitty titles and I can say the die hard fan who wants 80% pvp in Warhammer is in for a nice juicy suprise.

Any idiot knows you cater to the money and making Warhammer a 80% PvP game is not doing that. Good thread and truthful.

First of all never say never, right?  Secondly, the PVP in this game will probably evolve as most MMOs have, servers will be heavy on both end of the spectrum. Mythic will end up developing patches that will have plenty of PvE in it. The WAR players will have plenty of PvE as well as some pretty cool RvR gameplay. If anything the market will jock WAR just for trying some "new" things.  DOAC players wont feel like its all that new or ingenous, but to the rest of the gaming population(WoW refugees) it will be a very welcome change of pace.

Originally posted by Darksider25

First of all never say never, right?  Secondly, the PVP in this game will probably evolve as most MMOs have, servers will be heavy on both end of the spectrum. Mythic will end up developing patches that will have plenty of PvE in it. The WAR players will have plenty of PvE as well as some pretty cool RvR gameplay. If anything the market will jock WAR just for trying some "new" things.  DOAC players wont feel like its all that new or ingenous, but to the rest of the gaming population(WoW refugees) it will be a very welcome change of pace.

Well can you imagine how much work is behind any pve content. I doubt that Warhammer wil come with as descent PvE content as WoW did (except for the leveling period maybe).

Frankly I just want a game that has good PVP and PVE. So far havent found one that meets my standards. So I will wait till WAR comes out and beat on the crybabies that will swarm in.

Originally posted by sekira

Never have... never will. Those that have tried....have they been successful? Maybe to a minimal extent, but relative to very successful games? No. Name some good mmorpgs games based mostly on PvP? Anyone?

The majority of mmorpg players DO NOT PVP, so a business approach to cater about 80% to PvP'ers will not doubt doom this game.  This leaves you with a smaller community of players who will simply get frustrated by PvP'ing the majority of the time. Minimal PvE content will eventually force a player to PvP to successfully progress in the game... instead of allowing the player to choose to pvp on his/her own.

What does that leave you with? A game with 1/10th or less the population  compared to another mmorpg that actually has a business approach that makes sense.

What a horrible flaw by Mythic. MMORPGs were never made to be solely PVP based because it's nearly impossible to have good PVP balance. Usually... it's horrible and people would die for semi-good. This is why very few people pvp 24/7 in these types of games and most never will. But what is that... your game lacks alternative gameplay for those who don't feel like PvP'ing every second?

I'm not saying this game doesn't have a chance of being a decent PvP game....but the odds are against it due to design flaws and it won't be nearly successful compared to most mmorpgs of the next generation because it fails to attract the type of people who play these games.

this is a well thought out post actually but like others have pointed out you make many assumptions. this is the reason many devs just dont tell us anythng at all due to people making vast assumptions. WAR is very PVE centric title, regardless of what others might have misinformed you. It is nothing like Shadowbane or UO, etc. Next, PVE'ers want balance just as much as PVPers.

The reason why is because it sucks to get turned down for a group or guild because you dont have uber gear or within a certain level range. Elitism and desire for balance exists on both sides of the field. do not think you are superior to PVPers in this regard

Originally posted by vajuras

 

Originally posted by sekira

Never have... never will. Those that have tried....have they been successful? Maybe to a minimal extent, but relative to very successful games? No. Name some good mmorpgs games based mostly on PvP? Anyone?

The majority of mmorpg players DO NOT PVP, so a business approach to cater about 80% to PvP'ers will not doubt doom this game.  This leaves you with a smaller community of players who will simply get frustrated by PvP'ing the majority of the time. Minimal PvE content will eventually force a player to PvP to successfully progress in the game... instead of allowing the player to choose to pvp on his/her own.

What does that leave you with? A game with 1/10th or less the population  compared to another mmorpg that actually has a business approach that makes sense.

What a horrible flaw by Mythic. MMORPGs were never made to be solely PVP based because it's nearly impossible to have good PVP balance. Usually... it's horrible and people would die for semi-good. This is why very few people pvp 24/7 in these types of games and most never will. But what is that... your game lacks alternative gameplay for those who don't feel like PvP'ing every second?

I'm not saying this game doesn't have a chance of being a decent PvP game....but the odds are against it due to design flaws and it won't be nearly successful compared to most mmorpgs of the next generation because it fails to attract the type of people who play these games.

 

this is a well thought out post actually but like others have pointed out you make many assumptions. this is the reason many devs just dont tell us anythng at all due to people making vast assumptions. WAR is very PVE centric title, regardless of what others might have misinformed you. It is nothing like Shadowbane or UO, etc. Next, PVE'ers want balance just as much as PVPers.

The reason why is because it sucks to get turned down for a group or guild because you dont have uber gear or within a certain level range. Elitism and desire for balance exists on both sides of the field. do not think you are superior to PVPers in this regard

I remeber back in EQ getting booted from group because a warrior had 500hps then me and I was a shadow knight. So I logged on my 3 other accounts and brought them over and started farming the whole area just to get even. Dont think I ever did another PUG in EQ after that. What was funny is they tried to steal my pulls so I "let" agro slip and then I got tells on my cleric asking to come rez them join and join their group. First thing I did was cast 0% rez and laughed as they all took it and then said look at my surname.

Please show me the extensive research you must have done to come to this conclusion. You've obviously either have never experienced a game with good PvP yourself, or you are so narrowminded that you cannot step outside of your shallow viewpoint. Either way, your claims far outstrip your experience.

DAoC is a successful MMO that is very RvR centered. Most of the people that I know who play it play it almost exclusively for the RvR. Planetside was exclusively PvP and was also successful. I think most of your complaints come from you looking at a limited selection of older games that happened to have pvp that aren't played any more. The simple reason for this is that even MMO's have a shelf life. It may be longer than your average single player game due to updates, but eventually the MMO fades away; look at everquest one. Some early MMO's featuring pvp are no longer played; that isn't necessarily because there was PvP, it just means it was an old game that people tired of playing. The same will happen some day with all current on the market mmos.

Originally posted by vajuras

 

WAR is very PVE centric title, regardless of what others might have misinformed you. It is nothing like Shadowbane or UO, etc. Next, PVE'ers want balance just as much as PVPers.

May i ask how did you come to this conclusion. As far as i seen in official presentation most of talk is about PvP hype of WAR. i never heard so far that this game is to address PvE players. Even the expectaions from WoW community for example are towards PvP in WAR not PvE.

Originally posted by Hellrise

Originally posted by vajuras

 

WAR is very PVE centric title, regardless of what others might have misinformed you. It is nothing like Shadowbane or UO, etc. Next, PVE'ers want balance just as much as PVPers.

May i ask how did you come to this conclusion. As far as i seen in official presentation most of talk is about PvP hype of WAR. i never heard so far that this game is to address PvE players. Even the expectaions from WoW community for example are towards PvP in WAR not PvE.

PvP = Player versus Player... ANY player versus player.

The "hardcore" PvP fanboys are so amusing... just check my sig.

Originally posted by vajuras

 

Originally posted by sekira

Never have... never will. Those that have tried....have they been successful? Maybe to a minimal extent, but relative to very successful games? No. Name some good mmorpgs games based mostly on PvP? Anyone?

The majority of mmorpg players DO NOT PVP, so a business approach to cater about 80% to PvP'ers will not doubt doom this game.  This leaves you with a smaller community of players who will simply get frustrated by PvP'ing the majority of the time. Minimal PvE content will eventually force a player to PvP to successfully progress in the game... instead of allowing the player to choose to pvp on his/her own.

What does that leave you with? A game with 1/10th or less the population  compared to another mmorpg that actually has a business approach that makes sense.

What a horrible flaw by Mythic. MMORPGs were never made to be solely PVP based because it's nearly impossible to have good PVP balance. Usually... it's horrible and people would die for semi-good. This is why very few people pvp 24/7 in these types of games and most never will. But what is that... your game lacks alternative gameplay for those who don't feel like PvP'ing every second?

I'm not saying this game doesn't have a chance of being a decent PvP game....but the odds are against it due to design flaws and it won't be nearly successful compared to most mmorpgs of the next generation because it fails to attract the type of people who play these games.

 

this is a well thought out post actually but like others have pointed out you make many assumptions. this is the reason many devs just dont tell us anythng at all due to people making vast assumptions. WAR is very PVE centric title, regardless of what others might have misinformed you. It is nothing like Shadowbane or UO, etc. Next, PVE'ers want balance just as much as PVPers.

The reason why is because it sucks to get turned down for a group or guild because you dont have uber gear or within a certain level range. Elitism and desire for balance exists on both sides of the field. do not think you are superior to PVPers in this regard

Keep thinking this nonsense and you will be very disappointed.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for WAR, and I don't see any reason why it should fail.

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Originally posted by sekira
Yes I played DAoC back in 01/02. Apparently you don't know what PvP centric means.
DAOC had a great deal more pve than WAR probably will ever have...and that is a game that's 7 years old.  Why compare it to a 7 year old game?
DAoC at it's peak also has probably 1/30th or less of the total subscribers of WoW. What is your point?

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Do YOU know what pvp centric means? DAOC's entire lore was based around pvp. Granted, it was possible to never, ever pvp if that was your choice, but that's not what the game was about.

3 realms pitted against each other..sounds pretty pvp centric to me.

There are a few reasons WoW did so well. None of them really have to do with the game being some megalith of mmo's.

First..it was the right time. When EQ, UO, AC, and shortly after, DAOC came out...MMO's were still in their infancy.

Hell, at the time the origionals came out, there probably weren't enough gamers around with computers to bring in WoW subscription numbers if every single gamer signed up to the same game.

Another reason....Big brand name and lots and lots and lots of advertising. Blizz did an awesome job advertising.

Another one...WORLD WIDE release. Most of the others didn't do this, at least not right away.

Again, blizz developed their game well, released fairly flawless compared to other mmo's out.

By the time WoW came out, the older games were already in their wind down, people had been playing them for years and were tired of them, just like people are now leaving WoW and waiting for something new.

No offense, but do some actual research before making these generalizations, it will help you sound smarter.

D.

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Originally posted by Jetrpg
Well sometimes in daoc that third group would a$$ ram you .. and thats was all good because that was the nature of the game.

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ROFL, well said.

D.

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Originally posted by atziluth
*yawn*... hasn't this thread died yet?
Seriously the market has proven MMOs need a good mix of both to be successful. That is why every MMO to date has added PvP in some form after release if not included at release. I think you would be hard press to find a game that did not include a form of PvP within 6 months of release.
This argument is idiotic.

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/agree

D.