Originally posted by Thillian

Yeh I'm trying to say that. Its because the products must have something that appeals on mass market, which is certainly against quality. If you can give me an example of a product that is much more succesful then its competition and has a high quality I would reconsider this.

Time to reconsider I think

Originally posted by alex-core

main problem with wow imo, is that it is so wikky wakky..  the pvp balance is just bad, the world pvp is horrible (its like the game have no rules at all, and players are suppost to have same hp/defence/resistance as mobs.

Balance is fine, I guess you expect a holy spec priest to kill a fury spec warrior dont you

and all the pvp you end up with is the same pvp battleground over and over... just as boring as do pve raiding.

Welcome to MMOs, but you could set up an Arena team and try and win each season.

all they need to do to fix it, is to do like eq2 --> different effects on spells/abilities in pve & pvp, and how big the lvl difference can be, to be alble to engage in pvp combat..

There are different effects, mainly in Crowd control mechanics, see below for your 2nd part.

you cant call it pvp, when a lvl 70 gank a lvl10... thats simply just Epic Boss vs critter combat..

Play the game please, a lvl 70 cannot attack a lvl 10, theres a 10 level erm barrier, player is 10 levels below you, you cannot attack him.

Originally posted by cupertino

 

Originally posted by Thillian

Yeh I'm trying to say that. Its because the products must have something that appeals on mass market, which is certainly against quality. If you can give me an example of a product that is much more succesful then its competition and has a high quality I would reconsider this.

Coca-Cola is the leading Coke brand and probably the best quality too. with Pepsi coming close.

 

Time to reconsider I think

Originally posted by cupertino

Originally posted by alex-core

main problem with wow imo, is that it is so wikky wakky..  the pvp balance is just bad, the world pvp is horrible (its like the game have no rules at all, and players are suppost to have same hp/defence/resistance as mobs.

Balance is fine, I guess you expect a holy spec priest to kill a fury spec warrior dont you

 i rather die to a skilled holy priest,than die to a noob, who bought his character with good gear on ebay!

and all the pvp you end up with is the same pvp battleground over and over... just as boring as do pve raiding.

Welcome to MMOs, but you could set up an Arena team and try and win each season.

this is like the only mmo with this boredom, outher games got pvp with some kind of ashevement.. wow got like nothing after TBC!

all they need to do to fix it, is to do like eq2 --> different effects on spells/abilities in pve & pvp, and how big the lvl difference can be, to be alble to engage in pvp combat..

There are different effects, mainly in Crowd control mechanics, see below for your 2nd part.

yeah right, and what on earth does cc has to do with what i sayd? what i sayd whas, different effects, that means if a dammage attack does -- weapon dammage + 140 on a mob, it could do something like weapon dammage + 70 on a player.

you cant call it pvp, when a lvl 70 gank a lvl10... thats simply just Epic Boss vs critter combat..

Play the game please, a lvl 70 cannot attack a lvl 10, theres a 10 level erm barrier, player is 10 levels below you, you cannot attack him.

played wow sence may 2005, bought eq2  june 2005.. played both in periodes,, eq2 got this yes (when pvp got released)  wow got it in bg yes (changed from 21-30 to 20-29 .. wow does not got this in world pvp.. because i still could gank a lvl 10 in barrens with my 70 tauren warrior.. so that is bullshit (and that is not longer than 2 months ago)

 

Originally posted by alex-core

Originally posted by cupertino

Originally posted by alex-core

main problem with wow imo, is that it is so wikky wakky..  the pvp balance is just bad, the world pvp is horrible (its like the game have no rules at all, and players are suppost to have same hp/defence/resistance as mobs.

Balance is fine, I guess you expect a holy spec priest to kill a fury spec warrior dont you

 i rather die to a skilled holy priest,than die to a noob, who bought his character with good gear on ebay!

What has that to do with pvp balance?

and all the pvp you end up with is the same pvp battleground over and over... just as boring as do pve raiding.

Welcome to MMOs, but you could set up an Arena team and try and win each season.

this is like the only mmo with this boredom, outher games got pvp with some kind of ashevement.. wow got like nothing after TBC!

WoW PvP achievement is gear, and some small world benefits, such as taking control of Halaa and the spirit towers that offer quests and items to the faction controlling them, WoW is PvE not PvP always been that way.

all they need to do to fix it, is to do like eq2 --> different effects on spells/abilities in pve & pvp, and how big the lvl difference can be, to be alble to engage in pvp combat..

There are different effects, mainly in Crowd control mechanics, see below for your 2nd part.

yeah right, and what on earth does cc has to do with what i sayd? what i sayd whas, different effects, that means if a dammage attack does -- weapon dammage + 140 on a mob, it could do something like weapon dammage + 70 on a player.

Cus in PvE a mage sheep for example last 30 secs in PvP it lasts 10 seconds with dimishing returns.

you cant call it pvp, when a lvl 70 gank a lvl10... thats simply just Epic Boss vs critter combat..

Play the game please, a lvl 70 cannot attack a lvl 10, theres a 10 level erm barrier, player is 10 levels below you, you cannot attack him.

than thats something new that came not long ago! 

Been that way from day 1, I suggest you play the game some time.

 

eve is better

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Originally posted by Thillian

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Originally posted by Lazarus71

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Originally posted by Thillian

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Originally posted by cupertino

Never said Diablo was the first, just that it pre-dates EQ.... and I never said WoW brought anything new but it sure did redefine the MMO, since WoW bugs and broken features just are not acceptable.

A list unique features a good game makes not, quality and fun does and WoW ticks those boxes. IMHO
WoW brought Quality and million of people into the MMO genre

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Thats always a bad thing. Everything that masses like is crap in any sort of art (music, film, games, books..) mostly because the critical thinking level of an average person is just so terribly low.

But if you like to do what masses do, dress the same as most of others... then yeh WoW is fantastic for you. It is catchy it has everything what masses like.

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That makes about as much sense as those saying because tons play it is the greatest, guess what you saying that it sucks because a ton play it is just as untrue!

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Yeh I'm trying to say that. Its because the products must have something that appeals on mass market, which is certainly against quality. If you can give me an example of a product that is much more succesful then its competition and has a high quality I would reconsider this.

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( I also have to go with some electronics too, ie : a Sony television will probably be better than TP for tv television). What kinda car do you drive? I'm pretty sure you don't drive a Daewoo(not taking anything from Daewoo, but there are probably better car companies out there THAT ARE WIDELY MORE POPULAR.

Besides, in the video game world everything is in the eye of the beholder. IT'S ALL OPINION'S. Just because a game fits into particular niche doesn't make it a better quality game. There is a plethora of widely popular games out there that are in high quality and define it's genre. Take splinter cell for instance. Very high quality stealth game imo. Very popular too.

wow is the best

Originally posted by apothas185

wow is the best

I agree with you. Nothing comes close to WoW these days and the future list of games don't look anywhere near as good as WoW. maybe only WAR but nothing will get close.

Originally posted by kerlon44

Originally posted by apothas185

wow is the best

I agree with you. Nothing comes close to WoW these days and the future list of games don't look anywhere near as good as WoW. maybe only WAR but nothing will get close.

Although i had played wow for several months and infact had some fun i disagree with the above because

1)Blizzard had already a good name on market with many games that all internet cafe stores had them in most of the countries so it was easy for blizzard to make a success even with problematic launch because most of people(that played wow and was there 1 mmo) where new on online  games ,they also because of type of game have done well on asian market .

2)Blizzard had made very good marketing moves (you could find wow almost every where) and it was children friendly and easy to play

3)Becauseof 1 and 2 and game card also helped ,so many  10 -17 came on game and results where imature community .Most of the players play for a while (2-3 months) then  they stop and after a while coming back cause even if they cansel for 5 months and return they will not lose anything.

I am sure wow isnt best and there are better mmo's that there companies havent done so good job on marketing (advertisement,distribution of product etc),so you cant expect there game sold by magic.

Even blizzard wasnt expecting so much of a success .But after tbc went out (a lousy xpac with a lot of grind that took so much time to go live (2 years)} they are doing things faster cause of so many alternatives that are coming out soon and already anounced their next expansion in order to cut off some loses.

Judge a game from his content ,company services ,community,graphics ,music,gameplay ,lore,server stability and not from his successfull marketing policy .

Originally posted by apothas185

wow is the best

Its like a  h****r cheep and easy to forget....

Originally posted by catafract

 

Judge a game from his content ,company services ,community,graphics ,music,gameplay ,lore,server stability and not from his successfull marketing policy . 

Content: I've played WoW for a little over a year now. I've played pretty much every race and class. I've put in hundreds of hours and frankly enjoy the content. There's still a lot of "go kill 10 dogs" type stuff, but there are also a lot of fun, weird, or intricate quests (especially since TBC). As far as PvP content I admi the game falls short, but BGs and arenas can still be engaging and fun, esp with friends. Raids are certainly fun, and I enjoy raiding as one of my guild's tanks.

Company services: To date, the worst response time I've had in regards to a ticket was 2 hours. Typically, it's a matter of minutes. The GMs have been friendly and polite, and I've never felt an issue wasn't resolved to my satisfaction. And I've had few real issues; the most common was reporting goldsellers, but since the recent patches those no longer plague me.

Community: I have friends in WoW. I belong to a medium-sized, friendly guild that still manages to raid and have fun as a family at the same time. I love em. I play on an RP server,  and find (for the most part) immature kids are few and far between. The overall community has been pretty good to me.

Graphics: Not the best out there, but there are still areas I consider gorgeous. And the shots I've seen of the next expansion look better than ever.

Music: Honestly I don't care much about game music. I turn it off and play my MP3s. Mind you WoW needs a good built-in MP3 player, the addons I've tried so far I found lacking. But anyway, I can't judge WoW's music cause I just don't listen.

Gameplay: PvE ganmeplay is great, esp in the higher-level instances. There it's all about teamwork and coordination, and I love the challenge of it . Solo play is possible with  all clases (although not enjoyable with some builds). PVP...well read what I said above about PvP

Lore: Dude. Warcraft. You can choke to death on the amount of lore here.

Server stability: I've rarely had problems, and NOTHING like what I've seen in other games (EVE, CoX, and AO to name a couple).

Now, is WoW the perfect game? Of course not. Is it the best game for everyone? Of course not. Is it the best game for me? Not entirely. Do I still love playing it? Yes. And that's what matters.

Yeah killing 25000 bugs to get enough faction for an epic is great "content".  Oh and the battlegrounds are great, who thought you could turn pvp into a grind?  The pve is fun and challenging too, you look up a boss on the internet and then pattern yourself to match the script, its the same every time because variation would be unfun.   Warcraft? Lore?  What, is there a source besides warcraft 1,2,3?  Isn't that like trying to take lore outa a cartoon designed to sell toys?  The worst thing about WoW is that it has so many subscribers that all the other developers want to copy it, so it not only ruined its own game but also ruins all the other ones.  The only thing fun about this game is griefing but that gets boring after a month or so.

Originally posted by sullivanj69

Yeah killing 25000 bugs to get enough faction for an epic is great "content".  Oh and the battlegrounds are great, who thought you could turn pvp into a grind?  The pve is fun and challenging too, you look up a boss on the internet and then pattern yourself to match the script, its the same every time because variation would be unfun.   Warcraft? Lore?  What, is there a source besides warcraft 1,2,3?  Isn't that like trying to take lore outa a cartoon designed to sell toys?  The worst thing about WoW is that it has so many subscribers that all the other developers want to copy it, so it not only ruined its own game but also ruins all the other ones.  The only thing fun about this game is griefing but that gets boring after a month or so.

By killing bugs I presume you're talking about the AQ grind. First off, they're changed the faction for AQ to make it easier, secondly, since then they've improved that a lot. Faction grinds post TBC are MUCH easier and rarely require massive repetitve grinding. There's a few pesky ones (Scryer/Aldor...ugh!) But gear as good or better can be achieved via arena rewards or raid drops.

PvP grind? BGs can be that way I'll admit. If I had any complaint about Blizz at all (OK I have a few, but the worst is...) it's that they killed world PvP. I still would like to see that fixed.

PvE raids? Yes you can look up a strategy on the interwubs. Try to get 10-40 people to follow it, learning how. Knowing is one thing, doing is another. Or better yet, you and your guild develop a new tactic, a better one.

Lore? Um...yes there's 3 games..and several novels..and the tabletop RPG..and new lore created in game. Go read WoWwiki or even wikipedia sometime. There's tons of backstory. Oh and taking lore from a cartoon made just to sell toys...go look up how much lore there is for GI Joe or the Transformers. Cause, guess what those shows were? Tell THEIR fans there's no lore.

As for other developers I'll agree with you..it's a sad fact of marketing that developers take the safe road and copy what they know works.

And Griefing..meh..if I wanna grief morons I'll go play counterstrike. Although I'll still agree that I'd like a better pvp system. but it's still a good game. To me. if it isn't to you, that's your opinion and I don't fault ya.

just want to say , for all retards that are like 19years old, and have no idea of the world.

Warcraft is not the first ork vs human idea, the first (in tabletop ) was WARHammer, it is and i stay the creation of wow , it is, if anything the reason for warcraft.

the story runs very close to warhammer,  but yes  wow has made changes to that , making it individual, alowing it to be view by the public as , well not a copy, but it so is all the races are there,  the Lore , the gameplay , names , everything CAN be viewed as a copy from warhammer.

understand nomatter what you think, wow was not the first game, just the only one to use cinima ads, and well timed moves to make it big.

so if your going to base a game review on say any fantesy game PLZ for the love of god , dont base it on wow copy ideas

thanks

I didn't want to do this, because it's just going to sound like complaining to most people, but maybe someone will care (ya, right, lol). Anyway, here's the issues I had with WoW. These problems and dislikes forced me to quit.

1. Far too much grinding. Raiding the same boss over and over and over and over (and over) just to TRY and get some rare item irritated the living hell out of me. I really dislike games that are gear centric. I'd like a game that focuses more on skill usage. I also dislike being forced to join some huge group just to get a good item. I wasted so much time just looking for groups, I began to hate the people I was playing with.

2. The classes are just too homogenized. Too many skills overlap with other classes, making every character feel like some cheesy cookie-cutter class regardless of what you do. I suppose the fact that everyone looks almost exactly the same doesn't help either.

3. PvP is horribly unbalanced. Certain classes just don't have any real disadvantages in PvP and thus dominate the scoreboards. Then there's the lack of any real purpose in PvP besides (GASP!) better gear, and with no penalty for losing, PvP gets real boring real fast. I suppose it all boils down to game mechanics in the end. PvP in WoW plays like a lag-ridden FPS game with crappy graphics. What happened to the games that drew you into their world and rallied you to their cause?

4. Travel is a pain. Fly, fly, fly... fly, fly, WHY? I pay for to be entertained, to have fun. Watching my character do the same, boring tasks is not fun for me. Quests are particularly boring. Why must I have to travel all over the place just to get some stupid quest item? I guess it's because the more time I waste, the more money blizzard makes. That alone made me want to stop playing.

5. Too much micro management. I don't like farming for potions or dealing with 10 gazillion components. My backpack was always stuffed, mostly with useless quest related crap.

I suppose I had some fun playing WoW. It's not a bad game, but these issues were enough to make me quit.

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Originally posted by Sovren1

Nike is my prime example of a largely popular product produced for the masses and has equal or HIGHER level of quality than it's competition.

Horribly flawed logic going on here.

First off, a brand is not a specific item. Nike sells all kinds of shoe types with different styles and prices. We're talking about WoW (specific shoe), not Blizzard (the brand of shoe).

Second, what's popular is not the same was what's desirable. Quality is something that most people cannot distinguish without some form of comparison. Most people go by price, but if you took two pairs of shoes that had no logos and asked the average person to tell you which one was better, they would simply pick the one that has a style that appeals to them. They wouldn't have any clue as to how to gauge the actual quality of the shoes. In fact, manufactures rely on this when marketing their products. People are gullible and ignorant which allows smart people to get rich off them.

The quality of WoW is irrelevant to most people, they like the style and are easily amused, hence it's popularity.

To quote a phrase - "WoW is the McDonalds of MMOs".

If you enjoy it play it, if you don't, then don't. It really is that simple!