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Stradden 8/03/07 1:55:55 PM
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Managing Editor
Joined: 7/08/05 |
Weekly MMORPG.com columnist Dan Fortier takes a look a subject near and dear to his heart... PvP.
Read the whole article here. |
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Mrbloodworth 8/03/07 2:53:05 PM
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Hard Core Member
Joined: 3/20/05
"pleasantly paralyzed" |
I like my PvP when its Player VS. Player, not Skill/ability numbers VS. Skill/ability numbers (and gear) |
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| ---------- "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123 "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features. How are you?" -Me |
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T3hpwn 8/03/07 3:38:08 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 5/09/07 |
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I like the very open PvP that was only controlled by gaurds in WoW too, except for a couple lowbie zones that didn't really allow PvP. I think my ideal game would have some complex faction systems in that you would become aligned with and your only "safe" zones would be cities with gaurds (NPC and PC) that were freindly to you. But that is just asking for a long post... |
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kuyzat 8/03/07 4:23:02 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 12/08/06 |
My ideal PvP is RvR. I prefer to cooperate with a group of people to compete with an opposing group of people instead of just competing on a one-on-one basis (PvP) with no little cooperation or just cooperating with other players vs. mobs (PvE). In fact, I would say my order of preference would be RvR, then PvE, then regular PvP. Regular free-to-play shooters like battlefield offer PvP based on skill with minor cooperation, or at least cooperation on a small scale. MMOs on the other hand have a much more social setting so it seems a waste to just use them for regular PvP. MMOs also tend to have a much larger scale and can enable wars and battles instead of just small skirmishes like you see on regular shooters. There should be a strategic level to its PvP (or in this case RvR), a social level, a tactical level and a skill (as in skill with the mouse). |
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T3hpwn 8/03/07 4:30:07 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 5/09/07 |
Originally posted by kuyzat
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Darkessa 8/03/07 4:48:45 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 12/10/02 |
By far, the best implementation of PVP in any game that I've played is Eve-Online. If you are a fan of PVP, and even if you aren't, you should check out this game.
DISCLAIMER: I'm relatively new to Eve-Online, having only played for the last 3 months or so. I've been frustrated by my PVP experiences in games like Everquest, Shadowbane and Star Wars Galaxies. But for the first time, I've found a game in which I *love* everything about PVP. Why? Read on.
1.) Avoidable PVP: Eve has done a fantastic job of creating "zones" that are relatively safe, and other zones that are extremely dangerous. Safe zones are patrolled by Concord (the galactic police), and if someone attempts to shoot you while you're in a high-security space, Concord will blow them to smitherens. So if you want to avoid PVP, you can easily stick to the more safe regions of Empire space.
2.) Never Completely Avoidable PVP: However, even in high-security Empire space, you are not completely safe. It's never wise to go AFK without docking your ship at a nearby space station first. If someone suspects you of being AFK (and thus unable to fight back), just floating around in space, they might "suicide bomb" your ship. Only within the confines of a space station (or logged out of the game) are you "safe".
3.) What's My Risk: Each Solar System (zone) has a security rating, and your ship computer will keep you informed of what that rating is. There are 5 levels of High Security, 4 levels of Low Security and 1 level of complete "lawlessness" (0.0 space). You always have a sense of how much risk you're taking in Eve.
4.) It Doesn't Hurt to Lose: If you lose in Eve, getting back into a fully equipped ship isn't all that terribly difficult. And while players can loot / salvage components from your destroyed ship, you never have the feeling that you've suffered a tremendous loss (oh, man, I spent hours camping the Vile Goblin King so I could win that Sword of Inifinite Power -- if he takes that item from my corpse, I swear I'll quit this game forever!). In Eve, you get an immediate read-out of the ship equipment that was destroyed, what survived (and now probably is owned by the PVP winner). But you also know that you'll be quickly on your feet, and likely with a faster / better ship than the one you lost.
5.) Insurance Helps: As soon as your ship is destroyed in Eve, you get a big fat lump of cash in your bank account -- that's the insurance company paying for the recent loss of your ship, assuming you bought insurance. It's almost like getting a little reward for losing in PVP! And depending on the type of Insurance you purchased (I always get Platinum, the best type, for every new ship I buy), you could get back enough ISK to buy the same ship ... immediately! You still need to load that ship with weapons and shields and do-dads, but that's just another fun aspect to Eve.
6.) Building New Ships is Fun: Every time you die, it's a chance to buy a completely new type of ship (or the same type, if you really liked the old model), and equip it. That's another "reward" to death in Eve -- the chance to rebuild up a completely new ship. You've got your fat insurance settlement to start with, and probably a deep bank account from recent work you've been doing. And now you get to spend time thinking about all the different options you can put on your ship. Hopefully, you've learned some lessons from your last PVP encounter, and can designa ship that will effectively counter the strategy that was used to kill you.
7.) So Many Different Types of PVP: There are so many different types of PVP in Eve. You can go straight up 1:1, ship-to-ship against another player. Or you can be one of the vile "gate camper gangs" -- who attack players as they come out of warp in new Solar Systems (traditional zone camping). You can shoot players up to within an inch of their life, and then demand they pay a ransom before they are allowed to go escape with their lives. But the very best experience, I think, is team PVP -- where your entire corporation or alliance goes up against another corporation or alliance. These are some of the most amazing fights I've ever been a part of.
8.) PVP With Consequences: Every time you kill someone, it affects your security settings. As your Security drops lower and lower, it restricts what areas of space you can fly in. Over time, this forces the most hardened killers out of the High Security systems. This naturally pushes the PVP players into a different area of space from newbie players (everyone starts in High Security space). If a player with extremely low security ratings tries to enter high security space -- BOOM! Concord blows him up. Players can work security standings back up, but it takes time (and many consider it a badge of honor to have such low standings!). And any player can view the security standings of any player that shares the same zone with them -- so even when zooming through a low security system, you know when to be on your guard, and when you are relatively safe.
9.) Easily Identified Enemies: It's easy to identify the enemy. They're the players who are blinking red in your local scanner view. Corporations (guilds) can tag other individuals or corporations with a standing of allied or hostile, so it's easy to spot who you SHOULDN'T shoot at when flying through a zone, and who you SHOULD shoot at. Players can also set individual standings -- so if someone (or some guild) has "wronged you" in the past, you can lower your personal standing to them (with a reminder note as to why the standing was lowered), and even the score in the future. Enemies with low standing show up very clearly on the system scan.
10.) Bounty: And if you don't think you'll ever be able to get revenge (maybe your a tradeskill player, not a fighter, or a cargo hauler, or a merchant, or a smuggler, or ...), you can hire someone else to do it for you. Eve has the best bounty system of any game I've ever seen. Anybody can put a bounty on another player. All the bounties applied from different players are cumulative. In fact, some players work hard to see just how high they can get the bounty raised on their heads. As you're flying through a zone, it's very easy to spot the players who have bounties on them (making the career path of bounty hunter very viable in Eve), and you can even see how big the accumulated bounty is. All the individual bounty bids go into an escrow, and are paid to the player who ultimately kills the target. It's a fantastic PVP bounty system.
11.) Easy to Get Into: You don't have to be uber to PVP. New players can get into it very quickly. I was PVPing in my 2nd week of the game. In every encounter you learn, adapt, and become better. Equipment counts, but strategy and counter strategy can easily turn the tables -- allowing the smarter (but lesser equipped) player to win. Strategy and counter strategy come from the experience of past PVP encounters. The more you PVP, the better you get at it.
12.) Conquest of Space: The basic premise of the game, at least the aspect that I'm currently taking part in, involves conquering space. In order for your corporation to expand it's empire, it needs to constantly harass and/or defeat other corporations who may be vieing for the same region of space. That means the PVP, at least for those of us playing in lawless 0.0 space, is forced. We have to hold our territories to be successful. We have to attack other corporations to expand. We have to expand to survive. Everyone who plays in lawless 0.0 space knows this -- and we're all at each other's throats. And none of it is personal. It's just war.
All in all, I was expecting to really dislike Eve, but I've come to find it a very interesting game.
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DrowNoble 8/03/07 4:53:21 PM
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Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/12/05 |
PvP is a good way to add flavor to a game, but if you add too much to it you will lose players. Doesn't matter how balanced, fun, well-managed the pvp is there are simply some people who don't care for it much.
That is why there are games that are mostly pve but have some pvp elements added and doing very well. Despite what people think of WoW it is mostly a pve game with pvp elements added after the fact. Don't believe me? Well for one there are more pve servers (RP or otherwise) than there are pvp servers. EQ1 is still going and it is by far not a pvp game. The two City of games are also primarily pve games, the pvp zones are there for a little variety but not required to advance.
That is of course different in asian markets. The asian gamers tend to prefer more open or FFA pvp, Lineage games being an example of this. N. American and European gamers tend to prefer more restriced pvp.
Of all the pvp systems, I still like the RvR that is used in DAoC. I can do full pve, get to 50, etc. BUT if I do some pvp I can earn special realm points that are used to buy special abilities. Also, mostly I can avoid pvp if I want to by staying in the realm. If I go into the Frontiers than I know I am fair game. There are battlegrounds at every level, so I can start pvping at level 1 if I want to. Most important the pvp has more meaning, if your realm loses keeps you lose gold and xp bonuses. If you lose your relic the other faction gains a buff for all their players where ever they are. |
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dahgutfather 8/03/07 4:54:45 PM
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