(Looks sheepish for hopping into the necro cuddle puddle)

Just wanted to make one response to the OP's opinion that SWG was a less screwed-up game than DAOC. I can't really speak to the DAOC side of things, but I can already see WAR has it over the original SWG in two important areas.

1. the devs working on WAR appear to have a clear concept of what the game will be and not be in Beta - something you couldn't say about the SWG team until probably almost a year after launch. 

2. WAR is sticking close to the letter and spirit of the Warhammer franchise, something "Uncle Otto's Wind Farm Tycoon" never did (the Uncle Otto comment being that of the PC Gamer staff, not mine BTW). SWG broke so many rules of the Star Wars genre including but not limited to:

A. lacking such mandatory Star Wars features as Player-piloted space ships or even landspeeders at launch

B. allowing hundreds of PC jedis at a time when there was ONE  good and ONE evil in the entire galaxy according to the background. (I forget when SWG is actually set, so maybe you can throw in 2 more if Obi Wan and Yoda are still alive).

C. putting a huge focus on crafting professions like Wookie hair designer because of the entirely player-run economy

D. making classes that were either non-existent or barely present in the Star Wars franchise the most prevalent and overpowered in the game. Two words - creature handler

I don't want to jinx the WAR release, but if it goes smoothly without massive crashes then that will complete the trifecta of why WAR will be a better game than SWG.

I am glad they have to work with GW on this one, no bull sh1t stuff like daoc with every DEV person they hired wanted to do his own sh1t and ended up screwing up the game.

I played many games by SOE....and I loved/Hated them...all of them, lets start from the top:

1. Planetside: Fun game when it released. Awesome, no problems, LOVED IT. SoE releases expansion and kills the game....

2. EQ1: Fun, best MMO in its prime IMHO, verant sells it, SoE plays expansion of the month and dumbs it down, pretty much kills the game....

3. Vangaurd: still birth.

4. SWG:

5. EQ2: 

But I can understand your frustration with DAoC. Their were times I would have to go outside, drive around for a while, or just take a week long break. However, seeing as screwups are common in MMO's, Im not overly worried because Mythic has a decent track record.

Originally posted by BryanBoitono

3. Vangaurd: still birth.

 

ROFL 

i don't know, i think mythic did well with daoc.

i have tried every game out there, and some may be more appealing for a month here, 2 months there.. no game ever is as good as daoc in the long run, imo.

changes have to be made. some of them sucked, granted but bear in mind this game as what? 45 friggin classes to attempt to balance where most games are lucky to have 8.

all in all, still think daoc is best mmorpg to date so im pretty hyped if WAR really is daoc 2

Not a darn thing.Same bozo's running the new game .

Originally posted by Arawon

Not a darn thing.Same bozo's running the new game .

Obviously someone has a deep seeded hatred for Mythic.  Anyways, I played DAoC (introduced me into the MMO market) and that game truely captivated me and sucked me in.  Sure ToA expansion brought imbalance but the classic server took care of that mess.  I then went to SWG and had as much fun as anyone COULD have in that "game" but only found myself playing because of the people and NOT necessarily for the game itself.  World of Warcraft was revolutionary in the fact that it brought people into the genre but I think thats all it was really good for -- it ultimately (and quickly) went the way of EQ1 and became a raid/gear fest.. not my cup of tea.

WAR looks very promising.  I was never much of a PvPer during WoW but thats because i could never see the point besides grinding faction rep.  WAR actually lets you impact the world around you, an epic struggle of land and egos that a PvE game like WoW couldn't accomplish.  Of course people are afraid that their high expectations of a game like WAR will be dashed by decisions made by the design team, but one cannot really make that judgement until they get into the game itself in its release state and see where it is/will be with regards to mechanics/balance.

I personally am very excited about WAR and the experiences that will be .. well experienced .  I hope to see many of you here in-game so I will have more targets to kill in the name of SIGMAR!

How could you not enjoy daoc??
Lets pretend and go out on  a limb and assume your one of the many people that left daoc when ToA+New frontiers came out and wow was being released so you jumped ship and never looked back.
Every single thing that was introduced in toa was later erased or reversed, but most people dont know it because they are entrenched in wow.

but lets say they "sucked the life" out of the game.... eventhough that didnt really happen...... 
You still have 3 years of gameplay before the life got "sucked out" which is more than enough game time. Most games only last 3-5 years anyway.

The fact that makes me love to play mythic games is because of exactly what you saw happen with Trials of Atlantis. How many companies do you know who would admit messing up... and then reverse EVERYTHING they did? If Burning crusade was a mistake, do you think blizard would let you play a non TBC server? DO you think they would take away reputation grind? Do you think they would remove epics from the game? You think Everquest would have removed planes of power?

Being great is to fail and then address your shortcomings so you can move on and learn from your mistakes.... as opposed to just ignore them, pretend you infoulable or try to shift the focus to something else so people wouldnt remember what you had done..... -Davis 07

Just to note, I made this post well over a year ago, before I really knew much of anything about WAR. All I had at the time was my experience with Mythic, and IMHO they ruined that game LONG before ToA, because they just wouldn't leave it alone. But each expansion brought half a dozen or more new classes that just increased the problem.

For the record, I can see that they are doing things different with WAR in trying to bring balance through a heavy reliance on instancing. I can't say I fully agree with it. But I'm not going to say it outright sucks until I try it.

I was very skeptical about WAR being developed by Mythic at first.  I played DAOC from beta until about 6 months after release.  I had JUST made it to max level with my Ranger.  I go out into the frontier for about 3 days of bliss. I absolutely loved it!!  I was sniping people, sneaking around, etc.  Now, I did not consider Rangers over powered by any means.  I basically had no melee damage & I could only really take out 1 caster with my bow before I was swarmed by the rest of their group.  Or I got lucky & managed to stealth away from the group.

But then on the 4th day came the patch that made it so Rangers arrows did less damage, they had a very low chance to stay stealthed while knocking a bow & I believe there was a time limit added before you could stealth again.  Also they upped the rogue types stealth detection so that they could find Rangers even easier then before.  If I even got lucky enough to not get killed by a rogue while staking out a group it would take me 2-3 arrows to kill 1 caster & by that time I was already being surrounded by all his friends.

Mythic basically made the character I had spent 6 months of my life playing... worthless.

I quit for a few months because of this & then came back to the game.  I made a Bard & played for another 3 years.

So yes.. I am very scared that Mythic will do exactly the same thing with WAR that they did with DAOC, but I take it to heart that the Jeff has said many times that Mythic has learned from their past mistakes and are trying hard not to repeat them.

and thus why I am here talking about WAR. Cause I too am willing to give them a second chance. But yea I'm still pretty nervous about their previous nerf-bat love-triangle. ;)

Originally posted by Fion

and thus why I am here talking about WAR. Cause I too am willing to give them a second chance. But yea I'm still pretty nervous about their previous nerf-bat love-triangle. ;)

which approach would you prefer.  and you can ONLY pick 1 or 2 and cant come up with a third option.

1) Mythic approach. Constantly trying to improve and when you make a mistake, reverse the mistake for the sake of balance (AKA nerf)

2) Blizard view.  occationaly add new things but not for the sake of balance. If a problem arises making lateral changes but never actually remove the problem because it would offend too many people.

I myself love the nerfbat because it means you TRIED but failed, and are now concerned more with correcting the mistake than admiting you did something wrong and backtracking over it.

---

Originally posted by kraiden

Hmm so let me pose a question for all of you.
which approach would you prefer. and you can ONLY pick 1 or 2 and cant come up with a third option.
1) Mythic approach. Constantly trying to improve and when you make a mistake, reverse the mistake for the sake of balance (AKA nerf)
2) Blizard view. occationaly add new things but not for the sake of balance. If a problem arises making lateral changes but never actually remove the problem because it would offend too many people.

---

For a staff person here at mmorpg.com you sure have a very narrow view on how things work. Fortunately for both companies neither are as myopic as you make them out to be.

Whilst I agree with Celestian, in the interest of answering the question I would prefer the Mythic approach.

Nothing ventured nothing gained.

Originally posted by kraiden

 

Originally posted by Fion

and thus why I am here talking about WAR. Cause I too am willing to give them a second chance. But yea I'm still pretty nervous about their previous nerf-bat love-triangle. ;)

Hmm so let me pose a question for all of you.

 

which approach would you prefer.  and you can ONLY pick 1 or 2 and cant come up with a third option.

1) Mythic approach. Constantly trying to improve and when you make a mistake, reverse the mistake for the sake of balance (AKA nerf)

2) Blizard view.  occationaly add new things but not for the sake of balance. If a problem arises making lateral changes but never actually remove the problem because it would offend too many people.

 

I myself love the nerfbat because it means you TRIED but failed, and are now concerned more with correcting the mistake than admiting you did something wrong and backtracking over it.

You know what your points are valid to a degree, but there is a 3rd point I think people should be very WARY of:

Number 3:  Electronic Arts - What kind of angle will this company take in relantionship to mistake. I have never known EA to stump the money up to rectify anything it has touched and messed up. This is EA Mythic we are talking about here. Funny how those two letter are always missing when people compare old Mythic DAoC and now new EA Mythic Warhammer. EA nerfed Mythic in my opinion, lets hope when the game releases and in the future too it won't show or have any effect, right?

Not trying to pick a fight or anything, Im just saying that old DAoC Mythic might not have a choice in some things anymore.

You guys may be confusing EA dev team with EA corporate. 2 seperate things

The corporation Electronic arts are now "down with" Mythic. So now all of the mythic devs now wear shiny new badges that say EAMYTHIC and wear blue and white insted of black and red. Paychecks come from another source... but the people doing the work are the same. 

Walking down the street one day, you come up on 3 old ladies who are baking cookies and they offer you 1 to taste. You say "zomg these cookiez are teh pwn" and decide  to have said trio of ladies bake cookies for you to sell in your fathers bakery. Now.... you OWN a bakery, but you want these ladies to make them because your not a baker. Your not going to walk up and then put your finger in the cookie mix. You let the bakers bake the cookies in your bakery and then at the end of the week after you have sold a 120,000 cookies @ 1.99$ per dozen, pay the bakers their 300 dollars and then walk promptly to the bank.

EA is about making money. So if you have devs on staff at mythic and they have a product that you think is going to sell, you make a deal with them to merge. That way you let them do what they do and since you gave them the financial backing you will split the profit.  Since January, I have not gotten word of anyone on the dev team being fired by EA. I am planning on going down October 6th. If I see any cleaned out desks and long faces, I will let you know.

Deal?

Originally posted by Celestian

 

 

For a staff person here at mmorpg.com you sure have a very narrow view on how things work. Fortunately for both companies neither are as myopic as you make them out to be.

I dont think I have a narrow view on how things work..... Look I even guessed that everyone would try and pick a third option and preempted it  

I wanted to see which decision you would want with faced with these 2 evils.... not 400 other variables. We all know in a perfect world, we would want things perfect, but the world is an evil place so I was curious to what the fans would want for the lesser of two evils.

Key thing being said...someone else gives mythic their PAYCHECK now.

Thats a pretty big stick to wack someone with. Don't argue with the guy that pays your bills.

I am confident in mythics abilities...just holding my breath that EA doesn't F$#^ thing up for everyone.

D.

Okay my view on things here,

Mainly to the OP,

I think Mythic is by far the most trustworthy and their integrity is matched by no other mmorpg developer I know off.

They made many mistakes, but they truelly listen to their community and players, sometimes too much.

Yes they made ToA, wich was a mistake, it took them too long to fix ToA ( making all the rewards available thru RvR was a great idea ), but they fixed it.

Classic servers were a stupid mistake as well, rather then making classic servers they should have fixed ToA on the standard servers.

Making PvE and PvP servers was a mistake as well, because the biggest attraction came from the regular RvR servers and all the PvE and PvP servers did was spread out the population. No problem when DAoC was in it's prime, but a problem when it's numbers went down.

Another big mistake was allowing buffbots to flourish, instead of immediatly kill/nerf buffbots.

The New Frontier, while it had many good things and the basic idea was good, they should have placed a center island right at the beginning, thus recreating the old Emain.

Finally, clustering was a good idea, but the implementation was very bad.
They should have clustered the mainlands, SI and ToA as well, not just NF. Plus they should have implemented a long realm timer, to keep realm identity.

So yah, they made alot of mistakes, but they never really screwed people over intentionally, like SOE did.

I dont like that EA took over Mythic, but the fact that they call it EA Mythic, and not EA looks good to me. Plus the fact that Mark Jacobs is the president of EA Mythic AND that EA Mythic now covers all of the mmorpg titles within EA. Thus Ultima Online is now under the leadership of Mark Jacobs ( correct me if I am wrong ). All of this indicates to me that EA is getting serious about mmorpg's and wants to succeed in the long run. Unlike SOE that is just in it for fast profit ( so it seems ).

greetz

Originally posted by Fion
Like they sucked the life out of DAoC? Simple question. I haven't followed the game so much, accept to say that it looks and sounds like WoW 2.0. (though yes, I know, Warcraft is basicly a strait rip of warhammer and almost always has been.)

Seriously.. Mythic spent the last 5ish years sucking the life out of it's players by changing the game so much, so often, half the time I didn't know if I was comming or going. I played DAoC off and on for about 3 years.. usually in 2 month spans. It'd take that long for me to go 'yea I'll give it another shot' to 'Mythic I hate your guts I'm never playing one of your games another day in my life.' Then I'd hear of a change, sometimes that didn't completely rewrite a class or nerf the crap out of it.. years after release.. for the 10th time.. to the point where at it now plays SO differently from when it first came out, that you might as well call it something else.

Yes.. Mythic jaded me. No other company has EVER done that (save one.) I've been MMOG gaming for 7 years now and I'm really just laid back and enjoy myself. I'm not a troll, often I'm a boarderline fanboi lol. I like change, even when change isn't so good (my /regen scrapper in CoH has been nerfed at least 3 times now, but I still enjoy it, even if it's no longer as uber :p).

But man it took me just a few months to really get jaded by Mythic. I'd give them another chance and they'd throw it in my face. Seemed like every 6 months they'd take a class archetype (3 very similar classes in each realm) and change it so drasticly that you almost had to relearn your class and it's roll. On top of that.. I am Irish and I played Hibernia (Ireland).. and it so drasticly did NOT even come close to a mythological ireland.. and was so CLEARLY the last realm done.. that it turned me off almost instantly.

Anyway, I'm carying on here. Who says Mythic will or has changed? What can anyone say to me that will encourage me to give this game the time of day when right now I'm so jaded by Mythic I almost feel like blocking the word in my browser so that I can never go to any website with their name on it :p (ok maybe not that bad.. but you get the point.)

Right now the only MMOG I'm really looking forward to is Age of Conan and as far as I've seen, it's gonna kick serious arse and I have no need what so ever to look at this game. Yet it seems to have more hype, but a small margin. I keep hearing this game is mostly supported by former WoW players.. and we all know how great THAT games community is :p

Anyway, I dont mean to flame. This is an honest post and question. Why should I give Mythic my money.. let alone the time of day.

Fion, how many flame bait, trolling posts do you have to make exactly. Everyones getting tired of yur act. Wait until the game is released and you have tried it before you voice inaccurate and asuming posts, because we dont no what the game is like yet so stop stirring up trouble.