Originally posted by Gameloaded

Originally posted by Thorsnes

Originally posted by OGJackson

No doubt it is impressive.

But how many of those 9 million accounts are still playing the game?

The accounts are - for the 100th time - ACTIVE.

That shows that the gaming community no longer cares about challenges and game play. Its all about gear and pretending your skilled becuase you have much better gear then the guy you just killed.

Said it before and Ill say it again, WOW is for people who always play there games on easy mode.

Are you going to explain you how think it shows that the gaming community no longer cares about challenges and gameplay?  Because that leap in logic is quite amazing, you must be thinking on a much higher plane of consciousness than me, please explain it so us lowly WoW players can understand.

Oh and btw, In PvP I can beat players of the same class with better gear than me.  It means I am better than them.  That's called skill.

Calling WoW easy mode is taking the "easy mode" argument of criticism.  You're welcome to debate why you think other MMOs require more skill, but I'm afraid there are compelling logical arguments suggesting otherwise.

I'd love to hear how you think your favourite MMO requires more 'skill'.  I'll make myself a cup of tea while you explain it, mmk?

well if u look at worldwide subscriptions wow has 9 million all together BUT. lineage 2 worldwide has 15 million (thats what their year end report said if i remember right tho i could be remembering wrong). Granted lineage 2 NA isnt very big its more of a euro/asian game.

useless and pointless this post is. thats basically it.  

Originally posted by Focus*Bankai

well if u look at worldwide subscriptions wow has 9 million all together BUT. lineage 2 worldwide has 15 million (thats what their year end report said if i remember right tho i could be remembering wrong). Granted lineage 2 NA isnt very big its more of a euro/asian game.

Even if what you're saying is true(Which isn't by the way) I bet not even 2 million of those are active.

Originally posted by Gameloaded

 

Originally posted by Recant

Originally posted by Gameloaded

Originally posted by Thorsnes

Originally posted by OGJackson

No doubt it is impressive.

But how many of those 9 million accounts are still playing the game?

The accounts are - for the 100th time - ACTIVE.

That shows that the gaming community no longer cares about challenges and game play. Its all about gear and pretending your skilled becuase you have much better gear then the guy you just killed.

Said it before and Ill say it again, WOW is for people who always play there games on easy mode.

 

Are you going to explain you how think it shows that the gaming community no longer cares about challenges and gameplay?  Because that leap in logic is quite amazing, you must be thinking on a much higher plane of consciousness than me, please explain it so us lowly WoW players can understand.

Oh and btw, In PvP I can beat players of the same class with better gear than me.  It means I am better than them.  That's called skill.

Calling WoW easy mode is taking the "easy mode" argument of criticism.  You're welcome to debate why you think other MMOs require more skill, but I'm afraid there are compelling logical arguments suggesting otherwise.

I'd love to hear how you think your favourite MMO requires more 'skill'.  I'll make myself a cup of tea while you explain it, mmk?

 

 

 

Ive explained it in many a post, check out the Why wow is 30% of EQ2 post in the ep2 forums. While io disagree with that statement I go into further detail

 

Fanboi dont get mad, im sure your beleive wow is an incredibly indepth game  with TONS of options and challenging gameplay. The truth is its ALL about time spent, thats all. Spend 10 minutes on your new char, Ill have my 7 year old nephew who playes WOW duel you with his char he spent months on yet he stinks at pvp. Who will win? Thank you I rest my case

In an effort to promote diversity of posting, so that those with a short attention span aren't put off by boring things like logic and reason, I shall deliver my response EMOTE STYLE.  (Not to be confused with Emo style which would be like; ohh.. like... WoW has no depth... I like corpse runs and camping one place for weeks on end)

 Here we go:

 /ignores "fanboi don't get mad" childish taunt

/sarcastically glosses over the sarcastic inferrence that WoW has no depth.  Because as we all know: gate camping and longer levels = depth.

/Turns nose up at the notion that WoW doesn't have "options", with the inferrence that other MMOs have tons more (that aren't just fluff)

/ignores "duel my high level character with your low level character challenge", because it's entirely irrelevant and proves nothing either way, except that the poster doesn't make a very convincing argument.

/casts Silence, Mana Burn, Fear, Mind Blast, Mind Flay and finishes his better equipped opponent off with his staff.

/hug

What is the point of this childish argument?  Some people like WoW, and some people don't.

The game is not perfect, and it is not terrible.  It is what it is, and frankly, neither of you argues well enough to change anyone's mind.

Originally posted by Gameloaded

 

Originally posted by Recant

 

 

Originally posted by Gameloaded

 

Originally posted by Recant

Originally posted by Gameloaded

Originally posted by Thorsnes

Originally posted by OGJackson

No doubt it is impressive.

But how many of those 9 million accounts are still playing the game?

The accounts are - for the 100th time - ACTIVE.

That shows that the gaming community no longer cares about challenges and game play. Its all about gear and pretending your skilled becuase you have much better gear then the guy you just killed.

Said it before and Ill say it again, WOW is for people who always play there games on easy mode.

 

Are you going to explain you how think it shows that the gaming community no longer cares about challenges and gameplay?  Because that leap in logic is quite amazing, you must be thinking on a much higher plane of consciousness than me, please explain it so us lowly WoW players can understand.

Oh and btw, In PvP I can beat players of the same class with better gear than me.  It means I am better than them.  That's called skill.

Calling WoW easy mode is taking the "easy mode" argument of criticism.  You're welcome to debate why you think other MMOs require more skill, but I'm afraid there are compelling logical arguments suggesting otherwise.

I'd love to hear how you think your favourite MMO requires more 'skill'.  I'll make myself a cup of tea while you explain it, mmk?

 

 

 

Ive explained it in many a post, check out the Why wow is 30% of EQ2 post in the ep2 forums. While io disagree with that statement I go into further detail

 

Fanboi dont get mad, im sure your beleive wow is an incredibly indepth game  with TONS of options and challenging gameplay. The truth is its ALL about time spent, thats all. Spend 10 minutes on your new char, Ill have my 7 year old nephew who playes WOW duel you with his char he spent months on yet he stinks at pvp. Who will win? Thank you I rest my case

In an effort to promote diversity of posting, so that those with a short attention span aren't put off by boring things like logic and reason, I shall deliver my response EMOTE STYLE.  (Not to be confused with Emo style which would be like; ohh.. like... WoW has no depth... I like corpse runs and camping one place for weeks on end)

 

 Here we go:

 /ignores "fanboi don't get mad" childish taunt

/sarcastically glosses over the sarcastic inferrence that WoW has no depth.  Because as we all know: gate camping and longer levels = depth.

/Turns nose up at the notion that WoW doesn't have "options", with the inferrence that other MMOs have tons more (that aren't just fluff)

/ignores "duel my high level character with your low level character challenge", because it's entirely irrelevant and proves nothing either way, except that the poster doesn't make a very convincing argument.

/casts Silence, Mana Burn, Fear, Mind Blast, Mind Flay and finishes his better equipped opponent off with his staff.

/hug

 

Ahhh I love a guy who assumes, we all know what that means right??

 

Even the people who play WOW usually admit the game lacks any real depth, now did I say longer levels and gate camping = depth? No, dont assume for the sake of not  making a fool of yourself.

Yes, other MMO's have MANY more options that arent fluff. Hell at least I have more then I can count on one hand for any given class. How bout not restrcting my class to a race? How abotu giving REAL options on character building, cmon guy dont take fanboi to the next level please.

bottom line is this, make a new char, work on him for a few days, duel my 7 year old nephew who has a lvl 70 yet SUCKS at the game (since maxing, like everythign else in this game has nothing to do with skill) and lets see who wins. If you win, I will apologize for thinking this game is level and gear based

 

Cant can ya? Thought so.....

And WoW has options, they're called talent points.  And they're better than the 'fluff' options other MMOs give you just to add fake 'depth'.  You can also specialize your gear to be better at things such as support, or dps, or burst dps, or long-term dps.  Just because you lack imagination, doesn't mean the game lacks depth.  Those are real options.  Holy priest is completely different to shadow priest, and both are real options.   You can't do everything with one spec, that's whats the beauty of the system is - you have to make a choice. 

Other games let you do everything with their specialization, only you can do one thing just a little better.  That's fluff, and why World of Warcraft's talent system is brilliant.  Even EQ2 made a similar system - but didn't have the balls for each AA tree to make a real difference to your character.   It's just fluff.

WoW = antifluff, good character specialization.

I've not read the whole thread but their appears to be a bit of discussion about pvp here.

After deciding to play WoW for a bit just for the fact that if you are in this hobby it is daft not to try it at least once, I've found that the game is very item centric. 

However this does not necessarily mean that the player with the best gear must win, sure it makes a difference and puts the odds in his/her favour but there is always someone that is gonna come along and think hard enough about things to find the chink in that "ubah dude's" set-up.  Or a person who will come along and take the risk to break the cookie-cutter mould to try a new setup that works. 

Ever wonder why some of the best pvp-ers on your server are the best pvp-ers?  It is not just because they have farmed the best gear, but also because they know which attacks/spells/items to use against which profession and when.  However, granted WoW is not devoid of user skill, it does, still, favour those with the best gear.

No MMO is exactly rocket science and it all depends on how easy/hard you the player want to make it.   If the items had been attribute locked rather than lvl locked I might have stuck around, but it's not for me.  Good game for those that like it, of this I have no doubt.

Originally posted by Recant

 

Originally posted by terrant

9 million accounts -have been activated-

 

In all reality there are probably only half that many actually playing on a semi-regular basis.

 

That might be true, you don't know the numbers for sure though; perhaps its more, perhaps it's less.  You're just guessing.

Whether your guess is accurate or not, the same applies to any MMO that releases subscriber numbers, thus the point about who is actually playing on a somewhat arbitrary "semi-regular basis" is redundant.

(In other words there was no point to what you posted.)

Not that it matters.  As someone else pointed out.  Money is money, who cares where or how they get it. 

Grats blizz.

It is impressive.  The way that game is design its fun and easy to play.  It takes all the best elements of all the old MMOs and and simplifies it.  It worked.  At the expense of the depth of the gameplay.

Originally posted by Vociferor

 

I've not read the whole thread but their appears to be a bit of discussion about pvp here.

After deciding to play WoW for a bit just for the fact that if you are in this hobby it is daft not to try it at least once, I've found that the game is very item centric. 

However this does not necessarily mean that the player with the best gear must win, sure it makes a difference and puts the odds in his/her favour but there is always someone that is gonna come along and think hard enough about things to find the chink in that "ubah dude's" set-up.  Or a person who will come along and take the risk to break the cookie-cutter mould to try a new setup that works. 

Ever wonder why some of the best pvp-ers on your server are the best pvp-ers?  It is not just because they have farmed the best gear, but also because they know which attacks/spells/items to use against which profession and when.  However, granted WoW is not devoid of user skill, it does, still, favour those with the best gear.

No MMO is exactly rocket science and it all depends on how easy/hard you the player want to make it.   If the items had been attribute locked rather than lvl locked I might have stuck around, but it's not for me.  Good game for those that like it, of this I have no doubt.

No game is perfetc I just see WOW as a very good game for kids or a starter mmo. Or maybe even just an mmo made for people who arent good at hard mmo's that are ksill-based. Nothign wrong with playing a game in easy mode

In what ways does it lack depth? 

Just because it doesn't have tons of fluff that has little to no effect on gameplay, doesn't mean it lacks depth?

I could understand saying EVE has more depth, but that's only because of the territorial control.  Very few MMOs are deeper than WoW, but if you know of one, I'd love to hear why you think it has depth - chances are it's probably not depth at all, but something else.

Originally posted by Recant

In what ways does it lack depth? 

Just because it doesn't have tons of fluff that has little to no effect on gameplay, doesn't mean it lacks depth?

I could understand saying EVE has more depth, but that's only because of the territorial control.  Very few MMOs are deeper than WoW, but if you know of one, I'd love to hear why you think it has depth - chances are it's probably not depth at all, but something else.

Even when I still played, everyday I contemplated quitting and then looking at the sub number is what kept me in. It's the same for many. You think about quitting then think half of the cosmos is playing it and then say to heck with it, I'll just stay. It's a shame really. More people need to realize that Sci-Fi > Fantasy so we can make the market more diverse.

Originally posted by JonnyWarhawk

 

Originally posted by Recant

In what ways does it lack depth? 

Just because it doesn't have tons of fluff that has little to no effect on gameplay, doesn't mean it lacks depth?

I could understand saying EVE has more depth, but that's only because of the territorial control.  Very few MMOs are deeper than WoW, but if you know of one, I'd love to hear why you think it has depth - chances are it's probably not depth at all, but something else.

You level up to max level then raid dungeons that have a historical significance in the story. And that's it. That's also known as shallow gameplay. No missions like in FFXI, no territory or large scale group control like EVE, no solid PvP like UO. World of Warcraft's simplicity is it's greatest strength. Did you know Counter-Strike, REGULAR counter-strike is the #1 played game beside WoW? The game wasn't even made as a retail game, it was a free modification for half-life. It is very simple, easy to pick up and plays on crappy computers (which make up the majority of people on computers). People feel the need to brag about WoW subscriptions but it was really just a snowball effect. It will perish and another game will have the same thing.

 

Even when I still played, everyday I contemplated quitting and then looking at the sub number is what kept me in. It's the same for many. You think about quitting then think half of the cosmos is playing it and then say to heck with it, I'll just stay. It's a shame really. More people need to realize that Sci-Fi > Fantasy so we can make the market more diverse.

Its simplicity can be a very great thing which is why I think its a great game for kids and newbies (not ment as an insult)

I don't think OGJackson meant any illwill by hils question.  While the game is very impressive and is definately much more successful than any other MMOG to date.  I still have a hard time believing that those 9 million are active.  I counted 222 servers on WoW realm status area.. possibly I could have missed a few.  I was blown away that they actually have that many servers.  I haven't play WoW in quite some time myself.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think approximately 4000 players on at one time is pretty much the max, of course I doubt all servers are running the max every night.

 

Lets just play around with the numbers for shits and grins.  222x4000=888,000.  That i's a very impressive number.. in fact pretty much amazing.  If they have 9 million active accounts.. wouldn't you think it would take many more servers running 24/7 to handle this many people?  I'm not saying it's impossible because there are so many variants ie...it's a world wide game and since it's a very casual game. I believe there are millions of people who do play it casually.

I'm sure someone will flame, but I'm not bashing the game.  In it's own way it's a fantastic game, it just couldn't keep my attention past the 3 months I played after release.

Draenor Server Ratio Onlive Friday Night - 11,000 + Alliance, 3,500 Horde.  One server.

Originally posted by Avathos

No matter what people say  9 million subscribers is in impressive amount, after 2+ years been on the market. Congratz to Blizzard!

 

(Man I iwhs I had invested money in blizzard 3 years ago)

I think they dont need want your congratz, just your money and dont talk to much, is the marketing law of wow

Originally posted by Gameloaded

 

Originally posted by JonnyWarhawk

 

Originally posted by Recant

In what ways does it lack depth? 

Just because it doesn't have tons of fluff that has little to no effect on gameplay, doesn't mean it lacks depth?

I could understand saying EVE has more depth, but that's only because of the territorial control.  Very few MMOs are deeper than WoW, but if you know of one, I'd love to hear why you think it has depth - chances are it's probably not depth at all, but something else.

You level up to max level then raid dungeons that have a historical significance in the story. And that's it. That's also known as shallow gameplay. No missions like in FFXI, no territory or large scale group control like EVE, no solid PvP like UO. World of Warcraft's simplicity is it's greatest strength. Did you know Counter-Strike, REGULAR counter-strike is the #1 played game beside WoW? The game wasn't even made as a retail game, it was a free modification for half-life. It is very simple, easy to pick up and plays on crappy computers (which make up the majority of people on computers). People feel the need to brag about WoW subscriptions but it was really just a snowball effect. It will perish and another game will have the same thing.

 

Even when I still played, everyday I contemplated quitting and then looking at the sub number is what kept me in. It's the same for many. You think about quitting then think half of the cosmos is playing it and then say to heck with it, I'll just stay. It's a shame really. More people need to realize that Sci-Fi > Fantasy so we can make the market more diverse.

Thank you for explaining to this guy what lack of depth means, he just didnt seem to get it

 

Its simplicity can be a very great thing which is why I think its a great game for kids and newbies (not ment as an insult)

It's simplicity can also have a kind of negetive effect as well. 

I've been trying for over a year to get a friend of mine to play another MMO with me.  He's tried several others and every time he quits after a few days and goes back to WoW.  Why?  In his words, "they're to hard to level."  No joke, he thinks other MMO's are hard.  He doesn't like leveling, he doesn't care about questing, he doesn't care about tradeskills, he just wants to log in and play.  

This is a guy that levelled his first 60 by just grinding mobs.  When they made xp quests give gold instead of xp at max level, he still had every quest that would give xp to do. 

It's ruined him for other MMO, and it sucks.

^

I hear ya man. The funny thing is that WoW isn't even THAT easy. It takes 2-4 months to get to max level so that you can actually play the game, and the max level is easier than pretty much any game out there since there is nothing except commitment to getting better gear (which never ends btw). The leveling is just like any other game really, except Lineage which I'd say is undeniably longer and more difficult. People need to wake up. I really hope the next generation of MMO's can enlighten people. Just looking at WoW screenshots after not playing for 4 months makes me really question how myself and others got so addicted. I guess it just happens. SCI-FI FTW.

Thats what ive been saying, wow is for people who dont like hard games. Nothing wrong with that im not bashing it

Originally posted by JonnyWarhawk

^

I hear ya man. The funny thing is that WoW isn't even THAT easy. It takes 2-4 months to get to max level so that you can actually play the game, and the max level is easier than pretty much any game out there since there is nothing except commitment to getting better gear (which never ends btw). The leveling is just like any other game really, except Lineage which I'd say is undeniably longer and more difficult. People need to wake up. I really hope the next generation of MMO's can enlighten people. Just looking at WoW screenshots after not playing for 4 months makes me really question how myself and others got so addicted. I guess it just happens. SCI-FI FTW.

Unfortunetly the economy, and death penalty did him in. 

He didn't like losing xp when he died, and when it came time to get new gear he realized that you actually have to work for it.

His words, "I don't like risk, and I shouldn't have to earn gear in a game."

God I hate this game, and I hate that I keep going back to it just so I can play with him. 

It's hard not to play something that people you know in real life are playing, and pretty much everyone I've played with in game actually plays with people they know in thier personall life.  Hell, two people I know got divorced and now the ex-wife is dating a guild mate. 

WTF, is wrong with the world!