Originally posted by andyjd

 

Originally posted by Paragus1

Originally posted by andyjd

If 90% of quests were labelled as 'tasks' would you think of them differently?

 I would at least appreciate not having a developer insult my intelligence by trying to tell me there is something epic and meaningful about collecting dingleberries.

Well i'll give you that...I think dev's should consider quests/tasks/whatever a bit better than they do...

 

It was nothing earth shattering but there was a difference. People would tell you to do "task" until you were high enough to do the next part of your quest. 

To bad Mythic f*cked the game all up...... I hope they can do a better job with WAR because DAoC was mutilated by them.

Here is an example of a quality, fun, quest from classic EQ1.

This is the quest to obtain the Langseax or the Langseax of the Wolves. You need a very good faction to complete this quest (amiable at least).

Complete Version: Go to Renth McLanis in the tavern across from Mac's Kilts. Ask him "What dangerous matter?". He tells you of a crime. Agree to hunt the murderer. Renth then sends you to see Dok in Dok's Cigars. Find out all you can about the crime. He tells you to go see the leader of Clan McMannus. This is the fishing village located in West Karanas. Speak to the leader. Then speak to Ulrich McMannus and he tells you Frostbite can track prey if he has a piece of sweaty clothing. Return to Dok and ask him "Where is the sweaty shirt?". He then tells you he sold it to Tundra Jack. Find Tundra Jack on the tundra of Everfrost. He will tell you that Iceberg is using it for a collar and that you can distract Iceberg with his favorite meal, Lion Delight. Go back to Halas and speak to Teria O' Danos. Do the lion meat quest (you get coin and faction as well as the Lion Delight). Once you have Lion Delight, be sure to bury it lower in your container then your normal food to prevent it being eaten by you. Take the Lion Delight to Iceberg and receive the shirt (NO DROP, LORE ITEM) and faction adjustment. Now run to the village and give the shirt to Frostbite. (NOTE: Frostbite will wait for the murderer to spawn before he takes off. He walks pretty fast so I wouls strongly suggest that you have Spirit of Wolf on you. It also helps to have a party member along that can track because I lost sight of Frostbite many times and have had to start over. Also, Frostbite likes to fight things along the way. Help him out. Be very careful not to target Frostbite by accident!) Frostbite will lead you right to the criminal. The murderer will be either Paglan or Basil. Paglan is tougher to kill and probably in his low to mid 20's, Basil is around level 20. Kill whomever the dog leads you to, hope he drops a Barbarian head and then return to Halas with the head. Give the head to Renth for faction, coin, and of course, the Langseax (if you have Basil's head) or the Langseax of the Wolves (if it is Paglan's head). I am not sure what triggers which criminal you get or even if you can just kill both and get both heads, but it seems that you wil normally get Basil.

Here is a short version: Run to village, and receive the lion meat. Run to Halas, turn in meat to Teria and get Lion Delight, faction, exp. and coin. Run to Iceberg, give Lion Delight, receive shirt, faction, exp. Run to Frosbite, give shirt, gain exp. Kill the criminal. Return head for faction, coin, exp and Langseax. One thing to keep in mind is that your faction drops a good deal with the thieves guild with this quest, and the banker in Halas is a thief, making it possible that doint this quest can cause you to get kos if you try to use the bank. Also, you need a high faction with the Wolves of the North to finish the quest.

Granted, once the information is posted on a cheatsite  you can look it up, but someone had to figure it out initially and many people enjoy figuring quests out themselves because that is what makes them rewarding and fun. Keep in mind that in classic EQ1 information was acquired by engaging NPCs with "key" words to further any conversation for additional clues. Lower level quests gave you the key words by highlighting them in the NPC text, but higher level quests did not. You had to research and explore to develop the correct questions, thus key words to ask. The NPCs didn't tell you which zone the next clue or NPC they named was located and NPCs didn't have stupid unrealistic icons floating over their heads, nor was there a minimap pointing the way in classic EQ1. You had to explore. What a concept! Faction also played a big part in many quests in classic EQ1, and many factions were opposing so that when you raised one, you would lower the other, which makes complete sense and adds to immersion and planning. You might end up KOS(kill on sight) at your favorite town if you weren't paying attention.

Everyone I know who ran the Langseax quest  thoroughly enjoyed it.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Here is an example of a quality, fun, quest from classic EQ1.

This is the quest to obtain the Langseax or the Langseax of the Wolves. You need a very good faction to complete this quest (amiable at least).

Complete Version: Go to Renth McLanis in the tavern across from Mac's Kilts. Ask him "What dangerous matter?". He tells you of a crime. Agree to hunt the murderer. Renth then sends you to see Dok in Dok's Cigars. Find out all you can about the crime. He tells you to go see the leader of Clan McMannus. This is the fishing village located in West Karanas. Speak to the leader. Then speak to Ulrich McMannus and he tells you Frostbite can track prey if he has a piece of sweaty clothing. Return to Dok and ask him "Where is the sweaty shirt?". He then tells you he sold it to Tundra Jack. Find Tundra Jack on the tundra of Everfrost. He will tell you that Iceberg is using it for a collar and that you can distract Iceberg with his favorite meal, Lion Delight. Go back to Halas and speak to Teria O' Danos. Do the lion meat quest (you get coin and faction as well as the Lion Delight). Once you have Lion Delight, be sure to bury it lower in your container then your normal food to prevent it being eaten by you. Take the Lion Delight to Iceberg and receive the shirt (NO DROP, LORE ITEM) and faction adjustment. Now run to the village and give the shirt to Frostbite. (NOTE: Frostbite will wait for the murderer to spawn before he takes off. He walks pretty fast so I wouls strongly suggest that you have Spirit of Wolf on you. It also helps to have a party member along that can track because I lost sight of Frostbite many times and have had to start over. Also, Frostbite likes to fight things along the way. Help him out. Be very careful not to target Frostbite by accident!) Frostbite will lead you right to the criminal. The murderer will be either Paglan or Basil. Paglan is tougher to kill and probably in his low to mid 20's, Basil is around level 20. Kill whomever the dog leads you to, hope he drops a Barbarian head and then return to Halas with the head. Give the head to Renth for faction, coin, and of course, the Langseax (if you have Basil's head) or the Langseax of the Wolves (if it is Paglan's head). I am not sure what triggers which criminal you get or even if you can just kill both and get both heads, but it seems that you wil normally get Basil.

Here is a short version: Run to village, and receive the lion meat. Run to Halas, turn in meat to Teria and get Lion Delight, faction, exp. and coin. Run to Iceberg, give Lion Delight, receive shirt, faction, exp. Run to Frosbite, give shirt, gain exp. Kill the criminal. Return head for faction, coin, exp and Langseax. One thing to keep in mind is that your faction drops a good deal with the thieves guild with this quest, and the banker in Halas is a thief, making it possible that doint this quest can cause you to get kos if you try to use the bank. Also, you need a high faction with the Wolves of the North to finish the quest.

Granted, once the information is posted on a cheatsite  you can look it up, but someone had to figure it out initially and many people enjoy figuring quests out themselves because that is what makes them rewarding and fun. Keep in mind that in classic EQ1 information was acquired by engaging NPCs with "key" words to further any conversation for additional clues. Lower level quests gave you the key words by highlighting them in the NPC text, but higher level quests did not. You had to research and explore to develop the correct questions, thus key words to ask. The NPCs didn't tell you which zone the next clue or NPC they named was located and NPCs didn't have stupid unrealistic icons floating over their heads, nor was there a minimap pointing the way in classic EQ1. You had to explore. What a concept! Faction also played a big part in many quests in classic EQ1, and many factions were opposing so that when you raised one, you would lower the other, which makes complete sense and adds to immersion and planning. You might end up KOS(kill on sight) at your favorite town if you weren't paying attention.

Everyone I know who ran the Langseax quest  thoroughly enjoyed it.

Thats an excellent example of an old school type quest. Asheron's call was loaded with similar ones. IMHO, back a few years ago some young buck came up with the idea to save time and energy that having people kill 10 rats was a great idea for a "quest". The community didn't react negitively enough and embraced it as "content"....the rest is history.

Why should devs rack their brains trying to come up with quest like this one if the community is just as, if not more happy going out and killing 10 rats like bots?

Cynical am I?

Perhaps it is due to the fact that most MMO's still build on the foundations set by single player CRPGs that we are stuck with this bastardized term. There's only one hero and all the actions we as player undertake are inevitably interwoven with a (usually) linear plot and storyline. Most CRPGs are just one big quest. Sure we can have a little more options, sidetracking and a slightly different outcome; but in the end the outcome has already been set one way or another, and that outcome is the goal of the game we are railroaded to.

Thus it's fairly safe to say a quest is a major goal, something that would have a major impact on the story as a whole; be it the protagonists themselves or the world that surrounds them.

In a way I feel MMO and CRPG questing are highly inferior to PnP RPG games with a half-decent Gamemaster as to avoid the feel of railroading, but also for the impact of the choices the characters make. The difference however is that for both CRPG and PnP RPG games the player(s) are the real protagonists or 'heroes', since they are the only 'real' entities that interact or shape the story by their actions; whereas in an MMO it's highly unlikely a player can become a 'hero' as their actions will usually have little affect on the gameworld or story due to lack of real interaction, consequences and the fact an MMO has to take entertainment of a massive amount of players into consideration.

There's currently a bunch of games out there that have live-action events; player actions have consequences, on their characters and on the gameworld (which may include story progression). There's also MUDs who have proven real consequences to player actions are possible, mainly due to various Gamemasters catering for the undertakings of a bunch of players, allowing for questing and it's effects on the world. Now what if the next logical step for MMO questing could be found in specialized animation teams? No pre-scripted and programmed fed-ex 'questing', but Gamesmasters who alter and affect the world, make it dynamic, offer problems for groups of players to solve, where their actions will have consequences.

Then again, dedicated teams like that would have a hard time catering to masses of players and more importantly, drain a lot of cash.

Wishfull thinking perhaps?

There is an inherent contradiction in the world of MMOs with quests; you see this in WoW where the quest givers sometimes treat you as the only being they've ever talked to, and it's up to you, young dwarf hunter, to set the entire world right by taking down the troggs in that cave.  So from the getgo, we've got a problem.  There are multiple heroes doing the same thing repeatedly saving Azeroth by their deeds.  It is, as has been mentioned above, deterius from single player RPGs where you ARE the hero and you need to do heroic things.  In a multiplayer environment, this hits some cognitive dissonance devices and turns what was epic into the mundane because you wind up doing basicaly the same thing over and over again as you treadmill your way up the levels.

This situation naturally grates on some players.  Can't blame them, but hey, this is the nature of the beast.

There are a lot of players out there that need directed content.  SWG didn't operate that way and it suffered from a lack of 'content' as a result.  Unless things are handed to some players, they aren't going to be happy.

I'll give the Blizz guys some credit; WoW's quests are grounded in the overall storyline and while repetative, have story elements in them that are engaging.  I think the quest series in Duskwood, in particular, is very good from a story perspective.

Of course, this may not be satisfying for the most hardcore of MMO vets, who want world-changing consequences as part of the quest, but that's just not realistic because it involves upsetting the applecart that is the static world that can facilitate the army of players.  The need for the virtual world you're participating in to be sustainable gets in the way, because every detail in it is artificial, not organic, just simulating organic.  It's not self regulating at the level players interact with it, it just appears to be because it is static.

i see quests as epic journeys into unknown places to complete great feats and so on. like the beowulf book could be a quest.

problem is developers seem to have got a different definition of quests