Originally posted by Lobotomist

I have been following AOC as long as you did, that i am sure. And i also have enough common sense , and some experience in gaming industry.

Unfortunately , long i am not fooled or swayed by dev posts on forums. I belive only what i see , and so do many other.

Perhaps this is why so many negative posts are beggining on AOC forums.

Please correct me if i am wrong. I am sure we all can agree with one fact - game that is 3 months away from release should be largely finished by now and send out for tweaking and bug fixing. Not implementing new animations , pvp siege combat , new models...etc ( this is just a theoretical example)

But yet , 3 month before release - Funcom showcases their almost finished MMO on E3

But fails to show

1. Female models
2. Mounts
3. Player build cities
4. PvP sieges
5. Any Pvp

As I said.

Only reason not to show this things - realistically is - They do not look presentable , or worse - they do not work as they are sopposed to.

AOC also failed to be ranked best MMO of E3 , although its only competitor was POTBS ?!

Gamespy hands-on claims - combat is chaotic , and claims that game is glitchy (even on high end computer they tested it on). Eurogamer hands-on ,claims similar things...

 

 

Honestly this does not sound to good.

 

Again if you read this far.

I am fan of AOC , and wish it will be the best MMO and have best launch in history.

I am just concerned things are maybe not so peachy at Funcom right now

Hopefully i am wrong ....

Indeed..Theres a lot of cynical gamers out there (and I'm one of them), which have been fed hype and infomation, only for it to change and be altered. Dev's can promise the earth, but until its in game, and I can see it, or play it, then I don't believe it......Which is why I'm doubtful  about AOC. 12 weeks to release, no real beta. No real info......just feels like something is wrong. I hope it isn't.

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/1905.html?sort=date

Really, what more do you want? There is tons of movies, more than I've seen most of the other MMORPG have released.

Either way, what's the fun of playing a new game when you know everything there is to know about it. Just exploring and finding out new things is some of the fun things about any type of game.

And if you really need to be sure about everything, I think ( Please correct me if I'm mistaken) they will probably have an Open Beta before launch where you can try out the game.

Originally posted by Sterkt

http://www.gametrailers.com/game/1905.html?sort=date

Really, what more do you want? There is tons of movies, more than I've seen most of the other MMORPG have released.

Either way, what's the fun of playing a new game when you know everything there is to know about it. Just exploring and finding out new things is some of the fun things about any type of game.

And if you really need to be sure about everything, I think ( Please correct me if I'm mistaken) they will probably have an Open Beta before launch where you can try out the game.

I don't know guys...seems kind of early to be crying "Doom!" and a lot of what's being said in this thread is purely speculation and assumption.  I'm withholding judgment until I get some real info on what's broken and what's working. 

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I have been following AOC as long as you did, that i am sure. And i also have enough common sense , and some experience in gaming industry.

Unfortunately , long i am not fooled or swayed by dev posts on forums. I belive only what i see , and so do many other.

Perhaps this is why so many negative posts are beggining on AOC forums.

Please correct me if i am wrong. I am sure we all can agree with one fact - game that is 3 months away from release should be largely finished by now and send out for tweaking and bug fixing. Not implementing new animations , pvp siege combat , new models...etc ( this is just a theoretical example)

But yet , 3 month before release - Funcom showcases their almost finished MMO on E3

But fails to show

1. Female models
2. Mounts
3. Player build cities
4. PvP sieges
5. Any Pvp

As I said.

Only reason not to show this things - realistically is - They do not look presentable , or worse - they do not work as they are sopposed to.

AOC also failed to be ranked best MMO of E3 , although its only competitor was POTBS ?!

Gamespy hands-on claims - combat is chaotic , and claims that game is glitchy (even on high end computer they tested it on). Eurogamer hands-on ,claims similar things...

 

 

Honestly this does not sound to good.

 

Again if you read this far.

I am fan of AOC , and wish it will be the best MMO and have best launch in history.

I am just concerned things are maybe not so peachy at Funcom right now

Hopefully i am wrong ....

they have shown femlae models and mounts in videos, pvp is the only lacking thing, and there are more worries in a MMO than PvP

Originally posted by siresper

 

Originally posted by Ranlawl

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I visited AOC official forums lately and they are full of concerned posts.

Supposedly only 3 months from release - AOC being revolutionary in many ways , is showing to less to the public.

E3 presentation was incredibly lacking , showing only 10% of game features (or less) ... while even models and animations are said to be in reworking process. Now i may not know much , but the game that was in development for so long - should be 99% finished at this point. Only things that should be done 3 months before release should be bug fixes and tweaks.

Yet , Funcom failure to show almost anything could only mean one thing - what they have right now does not look good - and they are still hard working hard at the game itself.

This unfortunately reminds me of Vanguard / vs LOTRO scenario. And their rates of finished/unfinished betas/releases.

I am hoping this is not true for AOC, and that Funcom allready holds finished game in their hands.

But they should go on and reveal videos and details asap , if they want to avoid this fan base unrest.

 

this is hte kinda post that everyone in the AoC forums is getting annoyed of, its a minority of people, who usually have recently join, spreading doomsday threads trying oto cause panic, whilethe other 99% of the forums tell them they are wrong, to quit trolling, etc. Funcom has come out with information on pretty much everything so far you just have to read on their website instead of assuming

Well thats a problem, people want videos, they want proof. I can grab a bum off the street and have him write words on the state of the game. He can say that this or that feature is in, that the game is just in the tweaking stage. But they are only that - words. I can't have him conjure up a video of a working game with all those features. Only someone that actually HAS a working game with those features can do that.

 

Words are nothing. Vids and pictures are everything. Drink Sprite.

The only ones assuming are those that say its in the game and working 'because the site said so'.

if your just trusting videos, then thats also a flaw, anyone can fake a video or fake pitcures, just cause it is in a video or in pictures still doesnt mean it is true, oyu have to experience it for yourself, and also there are videos on pretty much all the features except PvP

Originally posted by Ranlawl

Originally posted by siresper

 

Originally posted by Ranlawl

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I visited AOC official forums lately and they are full of concerned posts.

Supposedly only 3 months from release - AOC being revolutionary in many ways , is showing to less to the public.

E3 presentation was incredibly lacking , showing only 10% of game features (or less) ... while even models and animations are said to be in reworking process. Now i may not know much , but the game that was in development for so long - should be 99% finished at this point. Only things that should be done 3 months before release should be bug fixes and tweaks.

Yet , Funcom failure to show almost anything could only mean one thing - what they have right now does not look good - and they are still hard working hard at the game itself.

This unfortunately reminds me of Vanguard / vs LOTRO scenario. And their rates of finished/unfinished betas/releases.

I am hoping this is not true for AOC, and that Funcom allready holds finished game in their hands.

But they should go on and reveal videos and details asap , if they want to avoid this fan base unrest.

 

this is hte kinda post that everyone in the AoC forums is getting annoyed of, its a minority of people, who usually have recently join, spreading doomsday threads trying oto cause panic, whilethe other 99% of the forums tell them they are wrong, to quit trolling, etc. Funcom has come out with information on pretty much everything so far you just have to read on their website instead of assuming

Well thats a problem, people want videos, they want proof. I can grab a bum off the street and have him write words on the state of the game. He can say that this or that feature is in, that the game is just in the tweaking stage. But they are only that - words. I can't have him conjure up a video of a working game with all those features. Only someone that actually HAS a working game with those features can do that.

 

Words are nothing. Vids and pictures are everything. Drink Sprite.

The only ones assuming are those that say its in the game and working 'because the site said so'.

if your just trusting videos, then thats also a flaw, anyone can fake a video or fake pitcures, just cause it is in a video or in pictures still doesnt mean it is true, oyu have to experience it for yourself, and also there are videos on pretty much all the features except PvP

If Funcom made a fake video or picture, eventually someone would find out about it, and it would be direct proof they lied to the playerbase. They would never do such a thing. Words are far easier to deceive and get away with.

As for videos of the features. I'll list the ones I've seen, and the ones I haven't. Please let me know if I missed any (although I'm pretty confident I've seen them all).

Seen:

Basic Combat/Combos
Basic Spellcasting
Mounts/Mounted Combat
One High Level Dungeon (though dumbed down for demo purposes)
Basic siege weapon (trebuchet)
Character Creation
First few minutes of newbie island

Haven't seen:

Regular PVP
Bar brawls
Player Cities Building/Development
Border Kingdom Building/Development
Border Kingdom City Sieges
Tradeskills
Spellweaving

And while I wouldn't expect this, I would also like to have seen:

Quality and Performance on high end, mid and low end pcs

I don't think the game is in as much trouble as the doom sayers claim and I don't think the game is as complete as the fan boys claim.

While the movies really do no show much, they do show enough to give an indication how the game is progressing. The greatest concern anyone should have about AoC is the lack of beta 12 weeks before release.

With the current indicators I think they will delay the game 3 - 6 months. If they don't and release with a short beta expect problems and lots of them when the game comes out. Hopefully the devs will do the right thing and delay if they have to.

 was just stating that if you can lie through text, you can also lie through video, i know funcom hasnt lied

Just because they haven't shown it, doesn't mean it's not there.

The only problem was with female models, or so they said. And they admitted clearly, that they did the female models altogether, since they weren't pleased the first time around.

When baking conspiracy and doom theories a lot of research has to be done. Take VG, the flop, as an example. You could tell it was a flop way before it released. You just have to listen to how the developers speak, to what the publisher's relations are to the developer, and minor economics. Also brand is important, and the structure of the company. These can all offer clues. By the same technique of analysis I (among many others -- I was under no circumstance a lone genius) foretold VG would flop, and predict that AoC will be a working title at launch, to draw success. Not as many subs as WAR, between half and 2/3rd the subs of WAR, I predict.

i think the fact that they are only hinting at cool stuff and not showing what they have done is to raise interest in players making them have to buy the game before they can see what it really is like. I often judge a game by what it looks like in beta..I know its not supposed to look good but it still turns me away from a game if i see it in its indecency. The less i see of whats going on the more i wanna find out what its like and so i am urged to buy the game.

might be what they are thinking.. idk.

Originally posted by random11

Just because they haven't shown it, doesn't mean it's not there.

 I agree. But it also doesn't mean it is. The only way to know for certain, is for it to be shown. Which is why I think it is important, and why I push for it.

The only problem was with female models, or so they said. And they admitted clearly, that they did the female models altogether, since they weren't pleased the first time around.

Right, the only problem they openly spoke of. No company, not Blizzard, Mythic, or funcom, ever told the customer every problem they ran into. But that does not mean that was the only problem.

When baking conspiracy and doom theories a lot of research has to be done. Take VG, the flop, as an example. You could tell it was a flop way before it released. You just have to listen to how the developers speak, to what the publisher's relations are to the developer, and minor economics. Also brand is important, and the structure of the company. These can all offer clues. By the same technique of analysis I (among many others -- I was under no circumstance a lone genius) foretold VG would flop, and predict that AoC will be a working title at launch, to draw success. Not as many subs as WAR, between half and 2/3rd the subs of WAR, I predict.

I'm not sure what you are going for here. I predicted WoW would succeed and EQ2 would do poorly back during their development, which happened. I used the same factors in forming that conclusion as you are using now. Does that mean your prediction will be right now? That my prediction will be right now?

I'm using the same 'technique' you are using, paying attention to what the developers say, what they don't say, their company and that companies past behavior. Only I've come to a different conclusion. That the playerbase should have a healthy skepticism about AoC and funcom. NOT a doom and gloom attitude, just a healthy skepticism. A 'believe in only what you can see' kind of attitude. But I think there are a subset of people that find that threatening or offensive for some reason. Not sure why exactly. Since I think we both want the best game we can get.

Originally posted by Javamancer

 

Originally posted by Sterkt

I really hope Funcom has learned from Vanguard that unfinished games are a nono.

 

One would think Funcom has learned from its own experience with Anarchy Online that unfinished games are a nono.  I find it hard to believe Funcom wouldn't have learned from that launch. 

Exactly.

Funcom were raked over the coals, and deservedly so, for Anarchy Online's horrible launch. I think they realize they're in a very lucky position now-- they're getting a second chance, and that's a rare thing. I'm very hopeful that they've learned from their mistakes, and that they've also seen what happened to Vanguard in its own miserable launch.

If it means an expanded beta, or a slight delay to polish the game up some more, I'm all for it. Funcom's got a lot riding on Conan, and I believe they know it, and they're wanting this game to be in the best shape it can be in from the start.

Originally posted by siresper

Originally posted by random11

Just because they haven't shown it, doesn't mean it's not there.

 I agree. But it also doesn't mean it is. The only way to know for certain, is for it to be shown. Which is why I think it is important, and why I push for it.

The only problem was with female models, or so they said. And they admitted clearly, that they did the female models altogether, since they weren't pleased the first time around.

Right, the only problem they openly spoke of. No company, not Blizzard, Mythic, or funcom, ever told the customer every problem they ran into. But that does not mean that was the only problem.

When baking conspiracy and doom theories a lot of research has to be done. Take VG, the flop, as an example. You could tell it was a flop way before it released. You just have to listen to how the developers speak, to what the publisher's relations are to the developer, and minor economics. Also brand is important, and the structure of the company. These can all offer clues. By the same technique of analysis I (among many others -- I was under no circumstance a lone genius) foretold VG would flop, and predict that AoC will be a working title at launch, to draw success. Not as many subs as WAR, between half and 2/3rd the subs of WAR, I predict.

I'm not sure what you are going for here. I predicted WoW would succeed and EQ2 would do poorly back during their development, which happened. I used the same factors in forming that conclusion as you are using now. Does that mean your prediction will be right now? That my prediction will be right now?

I'm using the same 'technique' you are using, paying attention to what the developers say, what they don't say, their company and that companies past behavior. Only I've come to a different conclusion. That the playerbase should have a healthy skepticism about AoC and funcom. NOT a doom and gloom attitude, just a healthy skepticism. A 'believe in only what you can see' kind of attitude. But I think there are a subset of people that find that threatening or offensive for some reason. Not sure why exactly. Since I think we both want the best game we can get.

 

I accept the conclusion you arrived at. Time will prove one of us right in this case. I don't like their lack of visibility either. I for one asked for more transparency from them, for reasons my own (enough to say it had to do with their share price falling). But I am patient, and I'm not a typical easy-come easy-go player. I chose to side with Funcom for clear reasons.

You know, there is one clip that I've seen out there of PVP leeked from the beta. Search it up on youtube.

All I'm going to say, is that if the devs need push it back, they can take how much time they would like to make sure the game has a good launch. But I disagree, saying that only 10% of the features have been showcased. They've showed numerous things, such as mounted, ranged, melee combat, how the catapults are fired, high level classes, dungeon's etc. They've also shown alot of areas from the game, such as Khemi and Frost Swamp.

Originally posted by oblivionate

You know, there is one clip that I've seen out there of PVP leeked from the beta. Search it up on youtube.

All I'm going to say, is that if the devs need push it back, they can take how much time they would like to make sure the game has a good launch. But I disagree, saying that only 10% of the features have been showcased. They've showed numerous things, such as mounted, ranged, melee combat, how the catapults are fired, high level classes, dungeon's etc. They've also shown alot of areas from the game, such as Khemi and Frost Swamp.

This video is better you get to see a female barbarian in cimmerian banded armor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZSUZexnBxQ

You know I can't wait till the event in Germany mid August, its said a live PvP event is in the works, played by people there. Wouldn't that be the perfect situation to shut the doom sayers up. Obviously it would have to go with little hassles but its the opportunity to put the game on a public pedestal for viewing. Nevertheless, even it shows flawlessly you will still find people attacking the companies share price or some other form of attack against AoC.

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

 

Originally posted by oblivionate

You know, there is one clip that I've seen out there of PVP leeked from the beta. Search it up on youtube.

All I'm going to say, is that if the devs need push it back, they can take how much time they would like to make sure the game has a good launch. But I disagree, saying that only 10% of the features have been showcased. They've showed numerous things, such as mounted, ranged, melee combat, how the catapults are fired, high level classes, dungeon's etc. They've also shown alot of areas from the game, such as Khemi and Frost Swamp.

Yes but its on a 6 month beta engine build, the combat rose is totally different now.

 

This video is better you get to see a female barbarian in cimmerian banded armor http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZSUZexnBxQ

You know I can't wait till the event in Germany mid August, its said a live PvP event is in the works, played by people there. Wouldn't that be the perfect situation to shut the doom sayers up. Obviously it would have to go with little hassles but its the opportunity to put the game on a public pedestal for viewing. Nevertheless, even it shows flawlessly you will still find people attacking the companies share price or some other form of attack against AoC.

Now sieging is an entirely different story, however I have seen catapults and the works.

Well I give up.

I want AOC to be succesful MMO as the other guy. But i just can not bite in the media manipulation anymore.

It is very clear to me now. And when you think and really understand marketing and internet today you realise this.

When company has something awsome to show - they show it

If they have awsome female model, they show it, and if they have awsome pvp siege video they show it.

Such excuses like " We want to save the best footage for release" - this maybe works in fairytale land , but in hard dog eat dog world of todays market , companies fight for every possible media coverage.

Heck they even make special levels just for show off, we even had cases of fake game footage in last year ( dont remember the games name)

You can be 100% sure that if something is not shown, it really does not exist or it is not very presentable.

Everyone let belive what they belive. At least the doubtfull can always be plesently soprised

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Well I give up.

I want AOC to be succesful MMO as the other guy. But i just can not bite in the media manipulation anymore.

It is very clear to me now. And when you think and really understand marketing and internet today you realise this.

When company has something awsome to show - they show it

If they have awsome female model, they show it, and if they have awsome pvp siege video they show it.

Such excuses like " We want to save the best footage for release" - this maybe works in fairytale land , but in hard dog eat dog world of todays market , companies fight for every possible media coverage.

Heck they even make special levels just for show off, we even had cases of fake game footage in last year ( dont remember the games name)

You can be 100% sure that if something is not shown, it really does not exist or it is not very presentable.

 

Everyone let belive what they belive. At least the doubtfull can always be plesently soprised

Good point dude, but here is a thing. AOC will have tons of ppl giving it a shot, just like every new release. All they need is a good launch and it will start pulling players from other games. Do they need every single feature to be out in public? Nope, word of mouth is better....having the forums bursting with great reviews is better. I really hope you arent right man, I have really high expectations for AOC, but, i m still playing EQ2 just in case it flops.